[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Glock expert? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/16/2009 7:51:50 AM EDT
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So....
Everyone here knows the story of my buddy recently who accidently shot and killed himself with a glock. His mother says she thinks the "safety" on his glock could be a fault or that there really isn't a safey on the glock pistol, she wants to talk to a "GLOCK EXPERT" to confirm this. Who could I direct her to who is a "GLOCK EXPERT"? And I assume would be called to testify also... 
The only thing I can think is she is going to file a civil suit against glock. I told her my thoughts on this issue but...a las...I did the research seems like glock has been sued similiarly in the past. |
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I'm at a loss for words here.
How exactly does somebody "accidently" shoot themselves? (Lack of proper operating knowledge would be more than likely the cause.) And if you could, please point me to the original thread/link if you could, because I've not seen it. |
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Please provide a link to the original story.
FWIW, I'm 99.999999% sure your buddy pulled the trigger on his Glock while it was loaded. If he had something important in front of the muzzle when he did that, then he is the sole person at fault. Edit: No offense intended. |
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I always was a little concerned by the lack of a non-retarded safety on a Glock, but it isn't as if anybody doesn't know that there isn't one. I don't really understand how that is grounds for a lawsuit, as he could have bought a safe pistol instead. There's no such thing as a "safe" pistol. (The safety is what is between your ears.) "Every gun is "always" loaded". |
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Here is the original URL in the memorial forum
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=151&t=848199 It was thought to be suicide, but ruled accidental self inflicted gunshot wound(whatever the hell that means).
I'm 99% sure he pulled the trigger also, i showed her my glock 19 and how you cannot make it go off WITHOUT intentially pulling the trigger. |
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Quoted: It was thought to be suicide, but ruled accidental self inflicted gunshot wound(whatever the hell that means). Means they have no clue what really happened, but have no reason to believe someone else did it. The police should have been able to determine if the weapon malfunctioned, that would be your start for an expert witness. Having gone through this in my family a year ago (the death, not the lawsuit), I advise you to tell the family to let it go. No good will come from it. The gun did not cause the death. |
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It was thought to be suicide, but ruled accidental self inflicted gunshot wound(whatever the hell that means). Means they have no clue what really happened, but have no reason to believe someone else did it. The police should have been able to determine if the weapon malfunctioned, that would be your start for an expert witness. Having gone through this in my family a year ago (the death, not the lawsuit), I advise you to tell the family to let it go. No good will come from it. The gun did not cause the death. I know that, and you know that. The family, I think they are just gripping for anything at this point....something to blaim....anything I suppose.
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I always was a little concerned by the lack of a non-retarded safety on a Glock, but it isn't as if anybody doesn't know that there isn't one. I don't really understand how that is grounds for a lawsuit, as he could have bought a safe pistol instead. Yeah, lots of others the same, all revolvers, Kahr's, Kel Tec's, Sigma's, some M&P's, LCP's,etc. Don't know about a lawsuit? |
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Quoted: Quoted: I vaguely recall that he was intoxicated when he shot himself, is that correct? That was the "rumor" of his death, but toxicology isn't supporting that from what I've heard. I'm yet to see the TOX for myself I see, I'm sure the family is grieving and I can't imagine losing a child but to try and put the blame on the firearm isn't going to bring their son back. I wish you the best of luck dealing with the family, it sounds as though their thought process is askew due to their grief. |
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I vote lock the OP's account now before he does anymore damage to gun owners. I hate to say it but I think that this this should indeed be squashed. OP, what exactly are you asking for? Someone to talk some sense into a grieving mother, or someone to help testify on her behalf in a presumably upcoming civil trial. Either way it's pissing up a rope. |
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Unfortunately, if your friend killed himself with a gun, it's a safe bet he pointed it at himself and pulled the trigger. When you pull the trigger on a Glock, it's SUPPOSED to go boom. If your buddy hadn't been negligent, every one of the 3 safeties could have failed, and he'd still be alive.
It's sad that bad things happen to people. But it pisses me off that people always think they can sue someone. Does your friend's mother know what she would have to prove to get a judgment in her favor? Even if she SOMEHOW (she won't) proves that the gun malfunctioned and that caused her son's death, then she has to prove that Glock was negligent, because no machine is ever required to be perfect. She'll have to show that there was something reasonable that Glock could have done to prevent a malfunction, that a reasonable gun manufacturer would have done, that was not done. That's a pretty high (impossible) standard based on the limited facts you've presented. Neither are Glocks "inherently dangerous." Millions of people use them every day. Very few of them EVER have this problem. Familiarize your friend's mother with Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 11(b)(3) and (c). If I were the judge, I'd use it. |
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Please provide a link to the original story. FWIW, I'm 99.999999% sure your buddy pulled the trigger on his Glock while it was loaded. If he had something important in front of the muzzle when he did that, then he is the sole person at fault. Edit: No offense intended. |
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Please provide a link to the original story. FWIW, I'm 99.999999% sure your buddy pulled the trigger on his Glock while it was loaded. If he had something important in front of the muzzle when he did that, then he is the sole person at fault. Edit: No offense intended. ^that, again, sorry for your loss but it wasn't the guns fault |
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Another of the OP's threads on the subject where he wants to sell all of his Glocks because his friend accidentally shot himself with one.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=13&t=74720 |
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Im asking for a "GLOCK EXPERT"?
SORRY KEYBOARD IS FUBARED, BASICALLY, I DONT THINK ITS THE GUNS FAULT, YES IM SAD IT HAPPENED. WHO IS A "GLOCK EXPERT" ? A GLOCK PROFESSIONAL I SUPPOSE, SOMEONE WHO WORKS WITH GLOCKS FOR A LIVING AND IS RESPECTED IN THE INDUSTRY. SHE DIDNT SAY SHE WAS SUING ANYBODY, BUT WHY ELSE WOULD YOU WANT A GLOCK PROFESSIONAL? |
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It was thought to be suicide, but ruled accidental self inflicted gunshot wound(whatever the hell that means). I'm 99% sure he pulled the trigger also, i showed her my glock 19 and how you cannot make it go off WITHOUT intentially pulling the trigger. I'll say it like this... Your friend is being given a "respectable" death. His family will be able to collect any and all insurance $$$. Dredging up he truth about the accidental, self inflicted gun shot wound, may take the dignity away from his life. I also have the g19, and handle it w/ extreme care, due to the operation of the weapon. As, I'm sure all do. |
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OP
You need to sit down with the mother and try to explain to her how the gun works. Simple as that, a rational person would see that the gun will not fire unless the trigger is pulled. So that right there tells you what happen. Sorry for her loss, but you can't blame the tool it's just a piece of plastic and metal with no decision making capability. |
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It was thought to be suicide, but ruled accidental self inflicted gunshot wound(whatever the hell that means). I'm 99% sure he pulled the trigger also, i showed her my glock 19 and how you cannot make it go off WITHOUT intentially pulling the trigger. Your friend is being given a "respectable" death. His family will be able to collect any and all insurance $$$. Dredging up he truth about the accidental, self inflicted gun shot wound, may take the dignity away from his life. +1 |
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OP, I think the best course of action for you is to tell your friend's mother that you couldn't really find anyone that is an "expert", and excuse yourself from the situation. While I realize this might be hard to do, given the emotion you are going thru right now, you are risking painting yourself into even worse situation by continuing your course of action. Not to mention you are villafying yourself into a "Judas" role on here.
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So.... Everyone here knows the story of my buddy recently who accidently shot and killed himself with a glock. His mother says she thinks the "safety" on his glock could be a fault or that there really isn't a safey on the glock pistol, she wants to talk to a "GLOCK EXPERT" to confirm this. Who could I direct her to who is a "GLOCK EXPERT"? And I assume would be called to testify also...
The only thing I can think is she is going to file a civil suit against glock. I told her my thoughts on this issue but...a las...I did the research seems like glock has been sued similiarly in the past. Tell her she is an idiot for me. |
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A "Glock Expert" will only reveal that the pistol didn't discharge by itself and that there is a very high probability that the trigger was pulled. This certainly wouldn't help the case. Yep, an Expert will only hurt their case and that's the way it should be, your FRIEND pulled the trigger, by accident or intent but HE pulled the trigger, end of case |
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She has no case.
This is akin to suing GM if you get into a car, put it in drive, punched the gas and ran somebody over. The device performed as designed. Like so many things in life, the user controls what the object does. She's setting herself up for further emotional and financial loss. |
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She has no case. This is akin to suing GM if you get into a car, put it in drive, punched the gas and ran somebody over. The device performed as designed. Like so many things in life, the user controls what the object does. She's setting herself up for further emotional and financial loss. I know... I'm gonna visit her again tonight, and attempt to reshow her how safe a glock IS. |
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I'm really sorry for the loss of your friend, and of the pain his family is going through. You seem to be lashing out in irrational directions through this –– you may want to seek professional grief counseling. Best of luck, WhyTanFox I fail to see how my asking of help locating a glock professional for his family at their request equals me needing professional help. They are not "gun people" so if this ends their questions, so be it. Alrighty then. |
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There is a youtube video where they pull the Glock around on a dirt road behind a truck for a few miles, the trigger never goes off.
I carry a glock every day and I trust it, I know it will not go off until I pull the trigger, and I also know that it will go off when I pull the trigger. I am sorry for your loss, and I don't believe that the gun went off on it's own, the firing pin safety for one prevents that, you have to pull the trigger. |
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I'm really sorry for the loss of your friend, and of the pain his family is going through. You seem to be lashing out in irrational directions through this –– you may want to seek professional grief counseling. Best of luck, WhyTanFox I fail to see how my asking of help locating a glock professional for his family at their request equals me needing professional help. They are not "gun people" so if this ends their questions, so be it. Alrighty then. I think he meant that it sounds like they are upset and looking to blame the gun for their loss, where the gun was not to blame. Some times people want to blame everyone else other than the one that is responsible. Counseling may help
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I'm really sorry for the loss of your friend, and of the pain his family is going through. You seem to be lashing out in irrational directions through this –– you may want to seek professional grief counseling. Best of luck, WhyTanFox I fail to see how my asking of help locating a glock professional for his family at their request equals me needing professional help. They are not "gun people" so if this ends their questions, so be it. Alrighty then. I think he meant that it sounds like they are upset and looking to blame the gun for their loss, where the gun was not to blame. Some times people want to blame everyone else other than the one that is responsible. Counseling may help
You nailed it 100% on the head, and I realize that. But you cannot TELL people some things, they want to hear it from a "PROFESSIONAL", not just some average paper plinker like myself I suppose. |
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There is a youtube video where they pull the Glock around on a dirt road behind a truck for a few miles, the trigger never goes off. I carry a glock every day and I trust it, I know it will not go off until I pull the trigger, and I also know that it will go off when I pull the trigger. I am sorry for your loss, and I don't believe that the gun went off on it's own, the firing pin safety for one prevents that, you have to pull the trigger. I agree 100%. |
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She has no case. This is akin to suing GM if you get into a car, put it in drive, punched the gas and ran somebody over. The device performed as designed. Like so many things in life, the user controls what the object does. She's setting herself up for further emotional and financial loss. I know... I'm gonna visit her again tonight, and attempt to reshow her how safe a glock IS. I don't think you need to tell her how safe a Glock is, I think you need to tell her how UNsafe her Son was, the Gun is not at fault. Does the Glock have a Mag disconnect? it is still the Son's fault but was the Mag in or out of the Gun? |
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She has no case. This is akin to suing GM if you get into a car, put it in drive, punched the gas and ran somebody over. The device performed as designed. Like so many things in life, the user controls what the object does. She's setting herself up for further emotional and financial loss. I know... I'm gonna visit her again tonight, and attempt to reshow her how safe a glock IS. I don't think you need to tell her how safe a Glock is, I think you need to tell her how UNsafe her Son was, the Gun is not at fault. Does the Glock have a Mag disconnect? it is still the Son's fault but was the Mag in or out of the Gun? Magazine was NOT in the gun. |
| Do not support her with this search for a Glock expert. Instead, show her a revolver and point out how it doesn't have any safety. Then teach her that even if he had been using a revolver, the same thing would have happened. Don't let up until she understands that the shooting had nothing to do with the Glockness of the weapon. It is misplaced grief for her to want to find somebody to blame. |
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I fail to see how my asking of help locating a glock professional for his family at their request equals me needing professional help. They are not "gun people" so if this ends their questions, so be it. Several of your posts in this thread imply that GLOCK Ges.m.b.H. may be at fault for your friend's death. In your thread regarding selling your Glocks, you seem to alternately take the blame or assign it to the G19 line. Your friend's death is not the fault of you, G19's, or "GLOCK Inc.". Best of luck, WhyTanFox |
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I fail to see how my asking of help locating a glock professional for his family at their request equals me needing professional help. They are not "gun people" so if this ends their questions, so be it. Several of your posts in this thread imply that GLOCK Ges.m.b.H. may be at fault for your friend's death. In your thread regarding selling your Glocks, you seem to alternately take the blame or assign it to the G19 line. Your friend's death is not the fault of you, G19's, or "GLOCK Inc.". Best of luck, WhyTanFox Point taken, at that point yes I was feeling very responsible. Never dealt with a situation like this before.. |
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Im asking for a "GLOCK EXPERT"? SORRY KEYBOARD IS FUBARED, BASICALLY, I DONT THINK ITS THE GUNS FAULT, YES IM SAD IT HAPPENED. WHO IS A "GLOCK EXPERT" ? A GLOCK PROFESSIONAL I SUPPOSE, SOMEONE WHO WORKS WITH GLOCKS FOR A LIVING AND IS RESPECTED IN THE INDUSTRY. SHE DIDNT SAY SHE WAS SUING ANYBODY, BUT WHY ELSE WOULD YOU WANT A GLOCK PROFESSIONAL? Buddy, sorry for your loss. Are you looking for fellows here to talk to her? That being said, I think she/you is/are grasping at straws. Glock would be out of business if it did not have the ability to protect itself from people killed by its products. I am afraid you/she won't find any allies here on taking on Glock. The gun did not go off on its own. Somebody pulled the trigger while violating one of the laws of shooting. That being said, it is certainly a tragic loss. |
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There is a youtube video where they pull the Glock around on a dirt road behind a truck for a few miles, the trigger never goes off. I carry a glock every day and I trust it, I know it will not go off until I pull the trigger, and I also know that it will go off when I pull the trigger. I am sorry for your loss, and I don't believe that the gun went off on it's own, the firing pin safety for one prevents that, you have to pull the trigger. Show her this. |
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Do not support her with this search for a Glock expert. Instead, show her a revolver and point out how it doesn't have any safety. Then teach her that even if he had been using a revolver, the same thing would have happened. Don't let up until she understands that the shooting had nothing to do with the Glockness of the weapon. It is misplaced grief for her to want to find somebody to blame. I was just about to post this also. Revolvers have been used since ever since. |