Posted: 12/9/2004 4:47:51 PM EDT
| Has anyone out there attended any courses at any of the popular gun schools (Thunder Ranch, Blackwater, Gunsite, Midwest Training Group, etc...)? I'm a fairly experienced shooter, but have never had any formal training. Was it worth the hundreds of dollars it costs? $600- $900 dollars can buy a lot of practice ammo...and night sights... and a new holster...and a CCW belt... and a new range bag...and a new high-cap magazine...you get the idea right? What's the best investment of my money? |
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You're fixin' to get some of those, 'it's up to you and what you want' replies OOOps! you already got one!  I'm not sure why folks post this sorta question without some background info. You would do well to let the people here know; 1) Why you shoot and what you're future plans are in the area of firearms 2) Do YOU feel you need more training and if so, what for? Defense, combat, swat, competition, ? 3) How much money are you planning on spending and are you really trying to make a choice between training and accessories? 4) If you decide on training, how prepared and able are you to take the lessons home and keep up the practice and/or repeat the training on a regular basis with the same or different schools/instructors (every few months, once a year, ? ) ? General questions like yours really leave the possible answers WIDE open. For me, I invest less in accessories than I do training. I choose my accessories (lasers and lights, new holsters, speedloaders, concealment clothing, etc. ) based upon two things...what looks fun, I can afford it, but I'm not sold on it being a regular addition for my defensive shooting preps. AND what I REALLY think can aid in increasing my efficiency, accuracy, protection and gun maintenance. Some of these I understand will require more learning and practice in order to be able to take advantage of their unique characteristics. Training for me includes the tools, lessons and time to practice dryfire at home, regular shooting at the range, a class a year (at least I try to do that). This would include gun magazines, books, videos, dvd's, classes. And just to make sure I answer at least ONE question... I have not been disappointed in any class I have taken so far (well, except for one class for a CCW permit). I feel that with a bit of homework, anyone can find a course/instructor who will pass on valuable information and experience. Determining whether the class is/was worth the money is probably going to be more of a personal decision since folks tend to see money issues in relationship to their own particular life. ...or so I believe!  ...and to follow up on THAT... the schools you mention are some of the better known/marketed schools in the country. They have reputations that all seem very positive, and probably got them for a good reason. Take a good look at each class description and see what fits your profile best. Gunsite is one of those schools (just to pick one as an example) that I have heard folks say they liked it, and some say they didn't. If you get an answer like that, I'd press the individual further for more specifics as to why the did/didn't like the course/instructor. I do not have any experience with the schools you listed, although I'm looking at Thunder Ranch for 2005. Good Luck! |
| Thanks for that reply. You're a very thorough individual. To be more specific, I'm thinking of self-defense training. I've shot competition in a little bit, and rank a little above average with the folks I shoot with. (Last match I only shot two of four stages, but placed second out of twenty-six in both of the two stages I shot). As far as follow up practice, I shoot about once a month. Money wise, I'd consider spending up to $1000 for everything (travel, hotel, ammo, and training) . Yes, if spent this kind of money my accessory budget would go to about $0 for the next two or three years. Do I feel like I need the training? I don't know, but I don't want to pay a $1000 to find out. That's the heart of my post. Has anyone out there spent this kind of money and felt "that was the smartest investment I ever made" or "stupid, stupid, stupid". Again, this if mainly for enhancing my CCW skills. I already shoot fairly accurate and fast, but I hear this thing about the "gunfighter mindset" or some other kind of specialized tatics or situational training. |
I have yet to feel like i wasted money on a training class. Every one i've gone to was worthwhile and made me a better shooter. Period. There are some places that are better "values" than others. One of the more important things you'll find out at some higher intensity places is how reliable your gear choices are and how well they work. One class I was at, a number of glocks and 1911's took dumps over the 4 days we were there. My only problem with my gun was guy pointing it at the target. That said, the first class I took was $100 at a local training range (to me..wsmac might remember that). 1 day, covered the basis, well worth the experience. I've since gone back to three more classes there, and two more at another school. |
| You can get training just as good or better from other schools that travel around the country and hold classes at "host" ranges. Most of those classes are in the $250-$450 range for a 2 day class. Also many of the BIG schools are gettin too PC. You might look into Louis Awerbuck, Gabe Suarez, Sigarms Academy even a local community college. I paid $95 for a 2 day carbine classs through the local CC taught by the local SWAT instructor. I too can't see spending $1000 to shoot in a square range against a timer until my hands hurt. Doesn't seem like it applies to the real world. In any case, after these classes it's imperative to continue practicing what you learned. Even a quality gas powered airsoft gun copy of what you carry can help in training at home. |
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I've shot/owned firearms my whole life. I am a pretty good shot too. But, I realized that I really didn't have much training/konwlege about real defensive shooting. So, I dcided to take a vacation and go to one of the best school schools we have in the area and loved every minute of it. I learned that I was using the wrong grip and had the time over those three days to break myself of that habit. I now naturally use the correct grip. That alone made me improve my shooting. With all the different exercises we had to do, reloading drills, malfunction drills, shooting on the move and behind concealment, basic structure searching methods, I am much more confident in my abilities and in my choosen carry weapon. I'd say it was well worth the time, effort and money I spent on my training classes and plan on taking more in the future. Where I went. http://www.tdiohio.com/ There were people there from Michigan, Virginia, Massachuset and all over Ohio. We also had a couple of middle teens there with their parents and others with expeience ranging from current military people, military contractors, competition shooters and just peole who wanted to increase their skills. |
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Something else that might help you is if you post the general area of the U.S. you live in or want to train in. Maybe someone who has trained near you can then let you in on specific schools or instructors. Incorporating a class in with a vacation was mentioned...nice idea! I'm heading to Missouri and Texas to see family soon and I'm checking out possible classes, gunshops, gunshows...the fun stuff! I also like the idea of checking with your local LEO trainers. I'm sure some of them have good experience as well as training (possibly from some of the schools you mentioned) that they might be able to teach you and/or a group you put together. If you check out the schools on the internet, you'll find many offer the chance to host a class where you live. If you can get the minimum number of paying students (it seems like 10 is the average), many of the instructors/schools seem to give you either 1 or 2 FREE spaces. You take one of the freebies! It's worth an email and a call! |
| I live in Southwest Missouri. I've e-mail the IDPA in Berryville, AR to see if they host any classes and also contacted the Midwest Training Group in near Springfield, IL. They seem to have good training at fair prices and have also e-mailed me back to say they'd be willing to travel. I'm a member of the Joplin Rifle and Pistol Club and am considering approaching them to see if they'd lend the range to this sort of thing. There is also the Chapman Academy near Columbia, Missouri that would very conveinent, but their web-site doesn't offer much info and I haven't tried to call them yet. In the meantime I'm looking at ordering some videos from Thunder Ranch. I'd also think Tulsa, OK would have a school, but my searches don't turn up anything. |
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Here's one in Houston in February community-2.webtv.net/@HH!30!09!17C32AC936D6/impactzone/ImpactzoneHomepage/ Here's another outfit that travels www.warriormindset.com/schedule.htm and one more www.mattburkett.com/ These are instructors I've found on the internet or had recommended (Matt Burkett was a recommendation), so I have no experience with any of them yet. |
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I strongly recommend D.R. Middlebrooks at the Tactical Shooting Accademy. www.tacticalshooting.com He and his instructors (and students) have won numerous IPSC and IDPA matches and titles. (I admire someone that can DEMONSTRATE that their method works). Since you are located up in Missouri, you might try his book first to see if it is something you might like to try. (He is located near Williamsburg, VA). |
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No idea where you are, but as others have said, a number of instructors travel to do their training. Last Summer I took my 1st defensive handgun course with Jim Crews www.marksmans.com and it was the best money I ever spent! He came out from Montana and spent 3 days with us. It was a real eye-opening experience. 28 years of target shooting and 18 years of qualifying with the local PD (2x/yr) and Mass Criminal Justice Training Council (our police academy) taught me NOTHING useful in defensive tactics. In 3 days with Jim Crews, I learned more than I ever knew before. - I learned that the trigger on my H&K USPc that I CCW is too rough for reliable, accurate shooting. - I learned why I couldn't control the 1911 that I purchased back in 1977, tucked away in my gun safe for 23 years and sold a few years ago. The trigger was too long for my hand and a small investment would have made it a usable and accurate gun in my hands. - We learned to shoot and move, something we never did in police qualifications! - We learned proper grip, "trigger reset", and how to shoot "one hole" groups. - etc. For those near the Northeast, www.neshooters.com is bringing Randy Cain, Gabe Suarez, and Jeff Gonzales to the Nashua NH area to teach in 2005. I'd say that this sort of training for anyone carrying a gun, is much more valuable than buying toys for the guns! Remember you are responsible for where every round ends up if you ever have to use the gun! |