Posted: 3/13/2014 5:08:06 AM EDT
Alright I'm willing to admit, I blow when it comes to handgun marksmanship. I can rock all day with a rifle and carbine but handguns are a different breed to me. I recently turned 20 and am counting down the days until I can get my concealed carry. I feel it's imperative however to improve my ability with my weapon before I go about carrying on in public. I've searched online for some official basics of handgun marksmanship but I can't find any that seem to agree with each other. So now I turn to you all. The only handgun I own and use is a Glock 23 gen4 and at 5 meters I can hit the target but can't seem to group. Help me everyone 
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Alright I'm willing to admit, I blow when it comes to handgun marksmanship. I can rock all day with a rifle and carbine but handguns are a different breed to me. I recently turned 20 and am counting down the days until I can get my concealed carry. I feel it's imperative however to improve my ability with my weapon before I go about carrying on in public. I've searched online for some official basics of handgun marksmanship but I can't find any that seem to agree with each other. So now I turn to you all. The only handgun I own and use is a Glock 23 gen4 and at 5 meters I can hit the target but can't seem to group. Help me everyone http://nextleveltraining.com/content/sirt-performer-rr-redred-lasers IM me for a discount code if you deciede you want one :). Best training aid I've used aside from taking actual handgun classes. It will help with the fundamentals which are: - Sight management (sight alignment, sight picture) - Trigger management (smooth press directly rearward, take out the slack, hit the wall, break the shot, reset the trigger) - Grip management (Thumbs forward grip, allowing as much skin on the gun to resist recoil) - Follow Through (doing it all over in preparation for the next shot) It also will work with any holster for a G17/22. Also, with the laser indicator you will be able to see the results of your dry fire. I hope this helps a bit :) EDIT: made link hot |
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I've searched online for some official basics of handgun marksmanship but I can't find any that seem to agree with each other. Three steps: 1. Align sights with target. 2. Pull trigger without moving the gun. 3. Repeat 20,000 to 50,000 times. Everything else is just fluff; stand this way, weight on the balls of your feet, one foot slightly in front of the other, blab blab. If you do any action shooting, much of the traditional bulls-eye stuff goes out the window. Seriously though, Stable stance and good grip, nothing more needed unless you want to improve your rate of fire. If so then add: Grip, thumbs forward, no tucking, nice and firm, Isosceles / triangle arms with slightly bent elbows, keep elbows high, almost parallel to the ground not pointed down. Trigger press is really the most important aspect, we can all see the target well enough and align the sights, pulling the trigger while maintaining an acceptable sight picture is 90%, hence the focus on trigger control. For practice: 1. Dryfire a few hundred times 3 sessions a week. 2. Buy a pack of 3 ½” square yellow stickies. Using plain white 8 ½” x 11” paper with a sticky in the center. Pick a distance where you can hit the sticky 10 for 10 (even if it's just 5ft), then increase the distance 5 feet, repeat. Yellow stickies at 15-20 yards is not unreasonable. Like many things, accuracy requires hours of practice. Dry-fire is the easy/cheap way. Just so you know I’m not completely full of S#$%, I’m an (ex/very infrequent) IDPA shooter (SSP Master) now 3 gun shooter. At more than one national level 3 gun match there have been man size targets at 75-100 yards (full size IPSIC) and 4-6" square plates out to 25 yards is the norm for pistol targets. If I had one recommendation for a beginer it would be to shoot IDPA matches. You can learn accuracy and weapon manipulations under a given level of stress. Many will say shooting any competition will form habits that will get you killed in a real gun fight. I would much rather go against a bad guy who doesn’t compete than a USPSA or IDPA shooter. Think of yourself (current skill level) going against a shooter that can hit a yellow sticky at 20 yards. I forget which pro shooter, maybe Jerry M said when asked what’s the difference between a good shooter and a bad shooter? He held up a bullet and said "shooting about 50,000 of these" I can rock all day with a rifle and carbine but handguns are a different breed to me. By the way, this makes no sense; the same skills for good rifle marksmanship are used for pistol marksmanship. When you say "rock a rifle" are we talking 1 ½ -2 MOA supported and say 4-6 MOA for off-hand skills? To me rocking a rifle is the shooters ability adding 1 MOA to the rifles mechanical accuracy supported (prone, no bipod) and 4-6 MOA off-hand. Have fun and shoot a bunch. |
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Quoted: Alright I'm willing to admit, I blow when it comes to handgun marksmanship. I can rock all day with a rifle and carbine but handguns are a different breed to me. I recently turned 20 and am counting down the days until I can get my concealed carry. I feel it's imperative however to improve my ability with my weapon before I go about carrying on in public. I've searched online for some official basics of handgun marksmanship but I can't find any that seem to agree with each other. So now I turn to you all. The only handgun I own and use is a Glock 23 gen4 and at 5 meters I can hit the target but can't seem to group. Help me everyone |
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You need to take a class from a reputable instructor.
Seriously. I started shooting around the age of 13. I taught myself on pistols. None of my family shoots guns and I had no one to turn to for advice. My parents would simply drop me off at a gun range that rented pistols and I would have at it for about half an hour. I had all sorts of problems, mainly because I had zero idea what I was doing. I was using techniques I saw on television and movies. This was before the time of youtube and training companies being everywhere. I finally had a older guy at the range take me under his wing and show me how he did it. That helped significantly. Turns out he was a UDT diver in Vietnam. I still to this day have not met a more hardcore man. To sum up my life story get professional training from the get go. I wish I would have but I simply didn't have that option at 13 yrs of age. |
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You need to take a class from a reputable instructor. Seriously. I started shooting around the age of 13. I taught myself on pistols. None of my family shoots guns and I had no one to turn to for advice. My parents would simply drop me off at a gun range that rented pistols and I would have at it for about half an hour. I had all sorts of problems, mainly because I had zero idea what I was doing. I was using techniques I saw on television and movies. This was before the time of youtube and training companies being everywhere. I finally had a older guy at the range take me under his wing and show me how he did it. That helped significantly. Turns out he was a UDT diver in Vietnam. I still to this day have not met a more hardcore man. To sum up my life story get professional training from the get go. I wish I would have but I simply didn't have that option at 13 yrs of age. This guy has it right. Spend some money and go get real training. It's like any activity - coaching and training help. Ignore people that seem to think shooting is innate or whatever. You asked "How can I be a better shooter?" and the answer is fairly simple "Become trained to be a better shooter". |
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Find a USPSA pistol match or an IDPA match, shoot with people that shoot pistol, $$ for $$ you will learn, all you need. and have fun doing it. Quoted:
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Alright I'm willing to admit, I blow when it comes to handgun marksmanship. I can rock all day with a rifle and carbine but handguns are a different breed to me. I recently turned 20 and am counting down the days until I can get my concealed carry. I feel it's imperative however to improve my ability with my weapon before I go about carrying on in public. I've searched online for some official basics of handgun marksmanship but I can't find any that seem to agree with each other. So now I turn to you all. The only handgun I own and use is a Glock 23 gen4 and at 5 meters I can hit the target but can't seem to group. Help me everyone Agreed. You'll walk away from your first match feeling a bit exposed, but take notes on the things you didn't do well with and work hard on those things. You'll learn more in one match than a year of static lane shooting at the local firing range. |
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Dry fire, pick a small distant point and practice proper sight picture, front in focus, rear and target slightly out of focus, and staying on target through the trigger pull hammer/striker drop.
Live fire, same things as dry fire and start slow, and start close 3-5yds, move incrementally further not advancing until your groups satisfy you and you can do them on demand. Once you get to whatever your goal is, I suggest 25yds at a minimum, go back and work on speed. If you can have someone observe you or you can humble yourself enough to notice your errors, that helps, especially with the so common flinch, or jerking the trigger. Stance is beneficial when learning in that it gives you something to come back to, you want to take as many things as possible out of the equation for now, you do that by making them the same. Weaver or isosceles makes no real difference so far as I can tell, if you're not in armor, some claim isosceles makes transitioning to movement easier, I don't, both are good pick the one that's comfortable for you and stick with it for now. I don't know about your fitness level, and lots of small people shoot handguns exceptionally, but I found that after I'd taken to working out for a while it made offhand rifle and pistol shooting much easier, at least for long sessions and being able to really take the time and focus on the fundamentals without fatiguing. |
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Dry fire, get a air pistol (soft or pellet) and practice. Best of luck.
AMU pistol training CD |
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When it comes to practice and dry fire you need to learn the right way first so you are not just repeating mistakes. The most common problem is trigger control getting the sights perfectly aligned then mashing the trigger. On the glock mastering trigger reset is the key after firing the trigger is held back the carefully released forward until a click is heard or felt ( not coming off the trigger or releasing all the way forward) then firing again. Makes trigger travel less than half the initial distance.
Also starting with a 9mm ( less recoil cheaper - equalling more shots for dollar- practice ammo will also help) I used to strongly suggest a 22 for training but with the current ammo shortages really can not like I used to. |
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I'll stick with ,,, going to a pistol Competition for 150 Rounds a match, $25 to $30 per match,, you will have 5 out of the 10 folks on your squad, help you learn all that you need to know. you can get more shooting in many competitions, for the same money as one class. Instructors, what can I say I have become a Competition snob, can the instructor hold their own in a competition. they don't have to win, but they have to get good hits and handle the gun well. If not,, They need to get up to speed. Before they can call themselves an instructor. I have heard many stories from Conceal Carry Instructors, Watching other instructor Qualify to be an Instructor. Horrifying, In Texas the Target is bigger than I am. and 15 yards ooooooooo ,,, And some of these instructors can barely qualify. In competition we shoot at many targets from mini poppers to full size cardboard. out to 60 yards, in some matches.. People are friendly and Helpful and during the completion you will be able to SEE, who shoots and who talks. Targets, and the timer will tell the truth. then You will know who to listen to. |
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I'll stick with ,,, going to a pistol Competition for 150 Rounds a match, $25 to $30 per match,, you will have 5 out of the 10 folks on your squad, help you learn all that you need to know. you can get more shooting in many competitions, for the same money as one class... ...In competition we shoot at many targets from mini poppers tofull size cardboard. out to 60 yards, in some matches.. People are friendly and Helpful and during the completion youwill be able to SEE, who shoots and who talks. Targets, and the timer will tell the truth. then You will know who to listen to. +1 But a pistol is generally not a hunting nor sniping tool. So "marksman" doesn't really apply. What you want is speed, often combined with movement, with appropriate accuracy. USPSA and IPSC is the best, easiest, most practical way I know of to learn and maintain this unique set of skills. Dry fire a lot? YES. |
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+1 But a pistol is generally not a hunting nor sniping tool. So "marksman" doesn't really apply. What you want is speed, often combined with movement, with appropriate accuracy. USPSA and IPSC is the best, easiest, most practical way I know of to learn and maintain this unique set of skills. Dry fire a lot? YES. Quoted:
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I'll stick with ,,, going to a pistol Competition for 150 Rounds a match, $25 to $30 per match,, you will have 5 out of the 10 folks on your squad, help you learn all that you need to know. you can get more shooting in many competitions, for the same money as one class... ...In competition we shoot at many targets from mini poppers tofull size cardboard. out to 60 yards, in some matches.. People are friendly and Helpful and during the completion youwill be able to SEE, who shoots and who talks. Targets, and the timer will tell the truth. then You will know who to listen to. +1 But a pistol is generally not a hunting nor sniping tool. So "marksman" doesn't really apply. What you want is speed, often combined with movement, with appropriate accuracy. USPSA and IPSC is the best, easiest, most practical way I know of to learn and maintain this unique set of skills. Dry fire a lot? YES. I disagree with this statement completely. There is not any other type of firearm that requires more marksmanship than a pistol. The fundamentals have to be applied to the extreme to shoot well with a pistol, while with a rifle you can lax the fundamentals a bit and still have good accuracy. There is a reason why most people can shoot a rifle decently well and cant hit a car at 10 yards with a pistol. |
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I am in the same boat as in I have a few more months before I can legally conceal carry. My issue is finding places that allow 20 year olds to shoot without a guardian's concent (supposed to be 21 to buy one) makes most classes and indoor ranges require my parents concent. Im in college and live away from home with my fiance, but thank god that my dad has been there as a personal firearms instructor. I Gen 4 g23 for Christmas months ago to shape my skills before I carry everyday to defend myself and my future wife. I have gathered that carrying it inside your home gets you comfortable, dry firing with snap caps will work the fundamentals (sight picture/trigger pull). When I visit my family I always take the time to shoot at my parents shooting range to work on recoil management with live firearms and my marksmenship. The issues I have had mainly relates to my grip and sight picture with both eyes because im right handed, but left eye dominant. You need to master your sight picture first with one eye getting on target that opening both to assure the front sight and target are still both visable.
Getting training is nice, but I personally have not been able to find a place to take a course without my parents present even though I will be 21 in 3 1/2 months. |
| Shooting once a week or more will improve your skills. I watched my groups shrink each week shooting a box three to four times a week at 50 foot targets. I benefited more than from shooting a couple boxes in one sitting. Of course ammo was cheaper way back then. |
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Shooting once a week or more will improve your skills. I watched my groups shrink each week shooting a box three to four times a week at 50 foot targets. I benefited more than from shooting a couple boxes in one sitting. Of course ammo was cheaper way back then. Simply going out and shooting isn't going to help anything if he isn't doing it right. Focused practice after receiving some instruction is the best thing to improve. I've been practicing my handgun a LOT lately. I got into shooting USPSA in November and it made my realize that I actually kinda sucked. I'd recommend Ben Stoeger's Practical Pistol book if you want some excellent reading material. http://benstoeger.com/joomla30/index.php/shooting-guide Once you have a gun, you can also practice most of what you do without firing a single shot (a.k.a. for free). Dry firing in invaluable. |
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Classes are fine. Taking the right class from the right person is the key.
USPSA shooters are absolutely the best handgun shooters in the world. Shoot with the best, learn a lot. Keep in mind, top level shooters like Rob Leatham and Nils Jonasson teach classes so classes can be good. Even the if you do take a good class, the skills need reinforced. Competition is the way to hone to the highest level. |
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Get yourself to a reputable class. In TN you have Rangemaster, which is a superb school and their Level 1 class is only $99. Competition (USPSA/IDPA) is a good skill builder, but honestly if you can't hold a slow-fire group at 5 meters then it's a bit premature to go pick out a CR Speed belt or a tactical fishing vest. Fellow competitors are typically willing to help a newbie, but there is simply no substitute for live-fire coaching by someone who is there solely to TEACH.
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Do you want to be accurate, fast, or both?
If you want to do both, I think you have to be accurate first then you build speed. Learn to shoot accurately (classes, reading, practice, dry fire, whatever) then shoot some IDPA or USPSA to improve speed, movement, reloads, malfunction clearance, and such. Most guys at a match are more than willing to help a new guy but go easy with the questions. Remember they are there to compete as well so give them a chance to concentrate as well. make friends and someone may be willing to let you practice with them. Locally there have been 2 new weeknight IDPA matches started. I see a lot of first time or very low time shooters at each. I see some of them improving each week, some not so much. Even if you shoot 2 matches a week, you need to practice the associated skills at home. Dry fire drills can cover most of it and allow huge improvements. |
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Class or competition is not either/or.
Definitely take Tom Givens class. There's a lot more to defensive use of a pistol than marksmanship. But, skilled marksmanship and gunhandling are critical. Hence the value of IDPA/IPSC. These guys are very good at both. You can find a guy that will give you a few one on one lessons in shooting fast and accurately, while manipulating the gun smoothly and safely(remember, you run with guns at matches) Next comes lots of practice. I see too many guys pay for an expensive training class and then fail to practice what they've learned. Training is learning. Practice develops skill and makes learning permanent. HTH. |
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Next comes lots of practice. I see too many guys pay for an expensive training class and then fail to practice what they've learned. Training is learning. Practice develops skill and makes learning permanent. Very well said. I've always felt that training classes really just teach you what to go and practice on your own. |
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Professional training is not required.
If you are actually good with a rifle much of that should transfer to pistol. Since shooting a lot of precision rifle my pistol work has much improved. I scoped my Ruger MK2 pistol a while back and found this very helpful in taking care with my trigger work. Last weekend at the rifle range, out of 6 guys there I was the only one shooting at 100 yards and they were shooting rifles I was shooting unsupported with my .22 pistol clanging my 10" plate pretty consistently(well 60%). I shoot every weekend and don't mess around playing I am shooting at difficult ranges and carefully observing what works and what doesn't. The .22 is nice also because you will encounter more "clicks" than you would see with a center fire. Dry firing is probably the most beneficial training you can do and it is free. |
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