Posted: 11/8/2012 4:50:36 PM EDT
| seen plastic plumbing pipe go brittle after 20/30 years will a glock frame last as long as 100 years? |
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Here's an old thread...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1051041_.html&page=1 |
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42 years ago, I bought a Remington Nylon 77 rifle. It is still in good condition today. I have seen many others over the years, and most of them have survived in good shape.
Hopefully, Glock uses some thing of equal quality. I am not a Glock fan, but I don't think they are going to fall apart any time soon. |
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I aint going to be here in 100 years so Im not to concerned if my Glock is still around then or not! LOL That being said, they have been around for a lot of years and Ive seem some older ones with thousands if not tens of thousands of rounds through them and they are still up and running like new! I dont think I have seen one worn out yet!
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| My EDC is a G19 purchased new in 1994..... my oldest Glock was purchased new in 1988, 1989 and 1993..... all still doing fine. I just replaced the factory NS on my EDC, after 18 years Id say I got my $$ out of them. I am thinking of replacing all of the springs soon, just as preventive maintenance and the parts are cheap and available. |
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I copied this off of Glocktalk a long time ago... Yes, age alone will steadily de-polymerize the plastic in a GLOCK, until it is reduced to dust. The process is called "quantum-mechanical entropic decay," and it attacks all engineering materials that are more complex than single atoms. Oxygen, especially ozone, viciously attacks the polymer frame of a GLOCK from the moment that it comes out of the mold. This damage can be retarded only by storing your GLOCKs in a "vacuum safe" –– a gun safe with a built-in high-efficiency vacuum pump that removes the air down to no more than 10.3 micro-millibars of atmospheric pressure. (Try to shoot your GLOCKs only on indoor ranges that don't have much airflow, or better yet, on ranges without any air present at all. Your bullets will lose velocity more slowly on such air-less ranges as well.) Metal embedded in polymer (the frame rails on your GLOCK) is constantly being attacked, deep in the frame where you can't see it, by "molecular acids" that form at the interface between the polymer and the metal. This hidden failure mode can cause the frame rails to tear out of the frame when you least expect it. You can tell how badly this is happening to your GLOCK by looking for it –– if you don't see anything, the hidden damage is getting very serious, and catastrophic failure is likely imminent. Also, stray electrical currents are set up in your GLOCK by the contact between the electrically insulative polymer and the electrically conductive metal. This eats away at the metal parts of the GLOCK. This is the same micro-galvanic decay process that destroys your home's water heater –– but unlike water heater makers, GLOCK intentionally does not provide a replaceable sacrificial annode on his guns. Planned obsolescence by G2, don't you know.... All of these processes are constantly at work in your GLOCK, degrading it, and will destroy it totally in about, oh, say, 50,000,000 years –– give or take a few tens of thousands of years.... (In case the above is too subtle, I am kidding –– except about the 50,000,000 years part. Yes, age and exposure to moisture, light, and air will slowly degrade the engineering polymers used in handguns, but not at a rate that is of any concern on human timescales.) -ET later reply to the same thread.... Also: question: I'm not sure if you are kidding about being an aerospace engineer as well as the rest. If not, maybe you could answer the question I've had about how much heat the polymer in a Glock can withstand on a day after day basis. Say, from being left in a car that is in the sun in 110 - 120 degree heat. I haven't been able to find anything that tells me just how hot the interior of a car gets in those conditions... Yes, I really am an aerospace engineer –– although I am not formally trained as a polymer specialist. If you want a serious specific answer about effects of "temperature soaking" on GLOCK polymer, here it is –– I can't answer specifically about the exact polyamide that GLOCK uses, because it is proprietary and Gaston won't tell anyone exactly what it is. But, I can answer generically, since I believe that GLOCK probably uses a proprietary varient of cast (not extruded) Nylon 6. This substance, which in its cast form is actually partially crystalline like a metal, can be manipulated to obtain a wide range of balance between such physical properties as "glass transition point" (G-sub-T), melting point, and max % of water absorbtion. Since G2 himself is a polymer chemist, no doubt he manipulates his Nylon 6 variant (itself a varient of DuPont's proprietary Nylon 6,6 –– remember the Remington Nylon 66 rifle?) to achieve a balance of these properties that he feels is ideal for his firearms. Ever notice the rock-hard yet still slightly "waxy" feel to the surface of a new GLOCK right out of the box? To a polymer chemist, that feel tells you that Gaston Glock really knows his polymers. From the surface feel, I suspect that Gaston Glock probably found a way to push his GLOCK frame material well towards the polyphthalamide (PPA) point, thus reducing the tendency towards water absorbtion while still also elevating BOTH the melting point and the T-sub-G point. Both yield-strength and the stiffness of the finished material are enhanced by this. This would be done by chemically manipulating the separation of the amide groups within the polymer, thus enhancing the final strength of the resulting hydrogen-bonding within the cast crystal matrix. Now, back to your question: ordinary cast Nylon 6 melts at around 500 degrees F. Gaston's custom-blended meterial is probably more like a Nylon 4/6, or even close to a PPA, which means that it is stiffer and melts higher, around 550 degrees F or even more. (By the way if somebody is willing to melt their GLOCK and tell us the exact temp at which it melts, we will know more about it.) So the temps inside your enclosed car (probably about 140 degrees F max inside in summer) will not come anywhere near melting your GLOCK. The bigger concern is that a prolonged "soak" in that temperature range would degrade the primers and powder in your onboard ammo. Another variable with the effect of a 140 degree F heat soak on your GLOCK frame is the temperature at which the GLOCK factory molds are run. This would determine the degree of solid-state crystallization achieved upon curing, and the residual internal stresses left within the frame –– i.e., if there are a lot of internal stresses left over from casting, the gun might warp during a prolonged heat soak long before if melted. But, we have to assume that Gaston, clever boy that he is, runs his molds at a fairly high temperature matched to his polymer blend, so as to achieve both sufficient solid-state crystallization and also some decent degree of stress-relief upon cooling of the cast frames. See why not just everybody can make a polymer gun like GLOCK? Sort of gives you a newfound respect for our boy G2, no? So after all of this, the short answer to your question is, your GLOCK will survive temps far beyond anything your ammo can, but you should not leave your ammo in a hot car for too long. (By the way, never ever put your GLOCK in a dishwasher on the hot cycle. All polyamides, even PPAs, will absorb up to about 2 or 3 percent by weight of hot water, when heated above about 145 degrees F. So while the dishwasher water won't melt anything, it will permanently add water inside the polymer matrix between the polymer strands, which while it will not wreck it, is not especially good for it.) -ET And, to sum it up quite nicley, For those who, even after all of this thread, are STILL worried about the longevity of their GLOCK's polymer frame.... Russian solar scientists claim that the sun has been going through a cycle of slightly increased energy output for the last few decades, gradually warming the earth ("global warming"), but that after about the year 2017 the sun will begin an extended cycle of slight gradual dimming again, which will cause rising human angst over "global cooling." The Earth's magnetic field is cyclically diminishing towards zero again, as it has many times in its geologic past, and the north and south poles will likely switch places (again), within the next few thousand years. The earth will someday run out of its original supply of nuclear isotopes, the steady cumulative decay of which provide the internal heat for its molten core, which will then gradually cool and solidify. The sun is steadily using up the finite stores of nuclear fuel with which it was supplied back at The Beginning, and as it dies it will eventually expand into a Red Giant that will encompass all the planets –– before finally collapsing to a White Dwarf, and ultimately to a gravitational singularity, commonly called a "Black Hole." All matter everywhere in the universe is steadily quantum-mechanically decaying towards elemental Iron (not Lead –– as is for some reason more commonly quoted). And yes, your GLOCK's polymer frame is (very) slowly-but-surely de-polymerizing. The time scale over which all of these processes act is such that the last humans left alive on the Earth, as they writhe in final torment watching the dying sun slowly expanding to scorch in its fiery corona the now-cooled earth, shorn of its magnetic field and ripped by Solar Magnetic Storms that will ionize and strip away its precious life-sustaining atmosphere into the iron-filled cosmos, will still have the handy option of sparing themselves their last slow desperate agony –– by shooting themselves in the head with today's production run of polymer-framed GLOCKs ("Oooh, look –– the plastic is still so nice and shiny!"). Entropy is a bitch who will have us all in The End...so turn off the TV news, relax, treat the metal parts of your GLOCK to some nice fragrant Hoppes #9, and have a good cold stiff drink for yourself. You'll live longer, and enjoy it more –– as we all slowly, oh-ever-so-slowly, turn to Iron, together.... Cheers! -ET The next to the last paragraph still makes me laugh. |
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Quoted:
seen plastic plumbing pipe go brittle after 20/30 years will a glock frame last as long as 100 years? Since when have glock frames been made of PVC? I believe glock frames are made of a variation of nylon, one that firearm stocks have been made of for many decades with no problems. I wouldnt allow a glock to sit in direct sunlight for years but other than that I would have no worries. In fact if its a high round count pistol I suspect any polymer framed gun will last longer than either steel or aluminum. |