Posted: 2/6/2009 10:15:00 PM EDT
|
Well I am looking to get into the sport, been shooting for a while and been meaning to get into comp shooting but time and money were interfering but I recently attended a 9mm course (military) and they had some scenario stages that caused me to start thinking about getting into the sport. I just have a few question that I need answered, been looking over the rule books for ipsc, uspsa, and idpa but not fully understanding.
What are the differences between the three? Does equipment dictate the differences or is there something else? Also what are some good holsters to start off with? I'm in the military and use any opportunity to shoot to better myself for my job and would like to use something that resembles gear that I would use at my job, I also CC. Would the SERPA holster be legal to use? What other gear other than magazines (I understand it's 4-5 is the norm), holster, mag pouches and ammo will I need to start? I'm planning on using either my 1911 TRP or Loaded and/or Sig 226 9mm. I understand that the Sig would be put in the production class, what exactly goes on in that class? Also what class would my 1911's fit in? Limited 10? Limited? Single Stack? I'm not planning on moding any of my pistols, maybe through on some different sights and grips, but other than that I want to keep it as is from the manufacturer. |
|
I just recently shot in my first IDPA match, and I was hooked from the first beep of the timer. The Outdoor Channel has several shows on that will showcase matches in all 3 organizations. There are some differences between the two, and everybody will tell you why their chosen organization is best.
I can only speak of IDPA and the comments of those that have shot in other organizations. IDPA was founded on having shooters compete in "real-life" scenerios representing self-defense situations. You are limited on the number of rounds you can have in your weapon; usually 10+1, or 8+1 depending on class and irregardless of weapon factory capacity. For example, I shoot a 1911 and that puts me in the CDP class, or Custom Defensive Pistol. I am allowed a maximum of 8+1 no matter what magazines I own. If I were to use my 19+1 round capacity XDm, I would have to shoot in ESP, Enhanced Service Pistol, and would only be allowed 10+1. The reasoning is simple; they want you to be on a semi-level playing field where it is more about the shooter that their equipment. The other capacity-cap reason is that during each round, they want you to do a reload, whether it is a tactical reload (a reload from slide-lock dropping the empty mag on the ground) or a RWR (reload with retention where you drop a magazine, stow it in a pocket, and then reload the gun with a new mag from your mag holder.) It is as much about how well you shoot as it is about how well you can handle other aspects of your equipment. IDPA also requires you to reload behind cover and never exposed more than half of your upper body to any hostile target. If engaging more than one target from behind cover, you have to just expose enough to see the first target, neutralize it with X required shots, then edge around trying to remain behind cover to engage the other target(s). I use a SERPA CQC in IDPA and they said that depending on body type, that particular holster was allowed. Our local club is cool with it, they really go by the guidelines of: Is it suited for everyday carry, can it hold the weapon during daily activity without letting the gun fall out, and when you have your concealment garment on, can you see it when you have your arms raised and held out to your sides at 90 degree angles? I think the big initial question about the Blackhawk was the way it attached to your belt. I read that the final ruling was that it was approved, but was up to the discretion of the range offers or match organizers if it was too noticeable when carrying. That is just my interpretation of what I've read. YMMV Scoring is based on total time through the course and depending on placement of shots on the target, it adds time to your score. There are sections on the target that add 0,1,3,5 seconds and misses or hitting no-shoot targets can add even more time. You join, shoot a classifier, get classified (ya think) and then start shooting. You only compete against those that are in the same catagory, not in the same squad. I was squaded with guys shooting everything but the revolver class. I haven't had the opportunity to shoot a classifier; my IDPA range holds 2 or 3 a year, so I'll shoot as unknown until that day comes. The only thing I can say about the other, mainly USPSA, is that the people I've talked with say they didn't like it because it can really just turn into an equipment race. From what I've watched on television, that could very well be the case, but I have never shot it, so my opinion is based on speculation and the testimony of others. Personally, I'm against any type of pistol shooting that doesn't use real holsters or allows optics on a handgun. I feel the same way about guys who have 80" custom barrels and a 10 power scope on their spot shooting shotgun. I'm leaving in an hour to go and shoot in my 2nd ever IDPA match and I'm like a kid waiting on Christmas! Good luck and keep us posted on what you finally choose. they are all incredibly fun and shooters are some of the best people you'll ever meet. |
|
First, if you are in the USA, you probably won't be shooting IPSC.
USPSA is the American division of IPSC, and they have their own divisions, rules, etc. So I'd throw out the IPSC rulebook for now. To compare USPSA to IDPA: USPSA is more of a "game" that allows a wide variety of guns from your stock G17 all the way up to full blown race guns with optics, compensators, etc. IDPA was developed from a CCW and tactics standpoint and their matches tend to de-emphasize the gaming aspect and concentrate more on "real" scenarios you'd encounter as an armed citizen. Figuring out what gun you want to use is how you decide what division is best for you. Both IDPA and USPSA have a category for stock handguns. Usually this is where the Glocks, SIGs, Berettas, etc., play. The ideal gun is a 9mm that holds at least 10 rounds, which is the capacity limit for this division. 1911s are disallowed in this category. USPSA calls it the Production class, IDPA calls it SSP. From there, things diverge considerably between USPSA and IDPA. Singlestack 1911s in .45 fit best in USPSA's Single Stack division, and IDPA's CDP division. If you have a non-.45 1911, you'll go into either USPSA's Limited 10 or Single Stack division, and IDPA's ESP division. Choosing which sport to shoot often comes down to when and where the matches are held. For example, I can shoot up to 10 IDPA matches a month in my town, and only about 2-3 USPSA. For you, the Serpa holster should be fine. For IDPA, bring 4 magazines and 200 rounds. For USPSA, bring 4 or 5 magazines and 300 rounds. We typically fire less than 100 rounds in IDPA and 200 rounds in USPSA, but it's always nice to have extra ammo. |
Got home a few hours ago after my shoot, and if you are still setting there and not shooting either IDPA or USPSA you are missing out! 
I did pretty well, with the exception of completely forgetting a target (counts as 2 misses and a FTN-failure to neutralize) and then my first time of shooting weak hand only and I missed 2 shots there. But, I did have the other more experienced shooters worried! : ) Go to IDPA.com and you can search from ranges close by. It is so much fun; every weekend you aren't shooting, you are missing out! Like the poster above stated, IDPA is very Concealed Carry oriented. You have to wear a concealment garment that covers your gun and your magazines. You have to wear your magazines on your back quarter and your gun on your hip to simulate you being out in the world. Now get out there and shoot!
|
Well, as usual, I'm going to swim against the tide..................... 
I shot IDPA (I Don't Practice Anymore ) several times. It was okay, but wasn't fun to me. 
Stand here, do this, can't drop mags (huh?), have to walk backwards, yadda yadda yadda. Too much restrictive BS for me. Then, I visited an IPSC match! 
The vast majority of the stages are listed as "shoot the targets as they become visible". 
My reasoning is this: not everyone has the same formula for running thru a stage. Some prefer to shoot left to right, some right to left. You're damn sure NOT going to stop & pick up an empty mag in a street shoot either.
All one needs to compete in IPSC is a decent holster (Blade-Tech in my case), a mag pouch for 2 mags & a good belt. IOW, the same thing one should have out on the street. 
A "street fight" with shooting damn sure doesn't follow any set rules. One CAN drop their mags whenever & where ever they please. This isn't the case for IDPA. IPSC has classes of Production, Single Stack, Production 10rd & Limited for those of us (including me) whom don't go the race gun route. *I* don't shoot IPSC to become a "gamer", *I* shoot IPSC in order to prepare myself to shoot some thugs out on the street. I cannot begin to tell you HOW much better of a shooter I have become since I started IPSC. The simulated stress situations add an adrenalin dump that is similiar to a street shooting. (And yes, *I* have been involved in a shooting.) My .o2 |
| I have never shot IDPA (would like to), but have a little bit in USPSA. What a blast! It kind of seems illogical in one way, the fact that they will explain the course of fire and walk you through it from one standpoint, because you know how the stage is set. But more than anything, it's all about problem solving. And even though it's not "real-world" in that sense, it forces you to analyze, and think about when you will reload, which target you will engage when, etc.. And any competition adds stress to the equation, which is a good thing. Get out there and do it, It's a damn good time. |
|
As you can see, everybody who finds the right organization to join and shoot with, loves it. What was said earlier about becoming a better shooter is true. I'm a good shot, but was pretty humbled the first time I lost round-count and was trying to pull the trigger with an empty gun. I turned the gun on it's side and was shocked to see the slide back!
It took me half a second to realize that I wasn't going to reload where I thought and I fumbled through the entire process being so pumped full of adrenaline. It showed me an area that I have to work on, and that is my reloads and I have gotten much better in the time between the 2 shoots. This last time was my first string of fire with strong hand only and weak hand only, and while I was better than some, I still missed several shots on target since I had never done it before. Again, shooting just one match will start to show you holes in your training and adding the buzzer, people watching and the stress of competition it can't help but make or break you being a pistol shooter. Each organization is great, filled with great people and if you can afford it; don't limit yourself to just one. I prefer IDPA while others are all about USPSA. I think the IDPA vs USPSA is like the old argument of NASCAR vs F1. Both are racing, both are great, one just does things differently than the other. Now get out there and find one! you too, the ones who are lurking and reading this! Find a place and shoot!
|
|
I agree, get out there and shoot!
I just started shooting competitions last month and so far I have participated in 4 different matches. 2 steel challenges, 1 pro-am and 1 uspsa match. It is really addictive once you get out and do it. I talked about doing it for a couple of months before I started and I can honestly tell you that I wish I wouldn't have waited. USPSA is a "run and gun" type of game and it is a blast to shoot. It will definitely show you the holes in your shooting. I know I am a pretty good shooter but just getting into these types of matches shows you what you need to improve on. I have finished about in the middle in every match I've shot. I placed 2nd in the production division in uspsa but to me that's really not saying much. All of the really good shooters were shooting limited and they blew me away, which I expected, but they all have some type of race gun and equipment. Which I don't and can't afford to do so. I was hoping to shoot my 2nd uspsa match today, but the wife is sick so that leaves me taking care of our child... 
|
| Well shot my first match today and had a blast, will definitely be going to more as my schedule allows (choose a bad time to start as deployment is coming so it's becoming busy on the training calender). Wish that I started earlier now. Went out there early and got the walk through and shot 6 stages with my P226. Held my own and placed 5th out of 12 shooters and took 1st in the Unclassified shooters. My best was Stage 4 The Map Room, Production class, 136 points, 0 penalties, time 32.48, hit factor 4.1872, stage point 124.4686, and stage percent 77.79. Overall I say not bad for my first time. |
|
Quoted:
Well shot my first match today and had a blast, will definitely be going to more as my schedule allows (choose a bad time to start as deployment is coming so it's becoming busy on the training calender). Wish that I started earlier now. Went out there early and got the walk through and shot 6 stages with my P226. Held my own and placed 5th out of 12 shooters and took 1st in the Unclassified shooters. My best was Stage 4 The Map Room, Production class, 136 points, 0 penalties, time 32.48, hit factor 4.1872, stage point 124.4686, and stage percent 77.79. Overall I say not bad for my first time. 
sounds like a great time! |
|
go to
www.uspsa.org and http://www.idpa.com/ find a local club. Bring a 1911 or 9mm, solid belt, kydex holster, and some mag pouches. Sign up and see which one you like better. I started with uspsa/ipsc and like it better. I find IDPA to be too restrictive, "you have to put your knee here" ..."you can't reload here" etc.. also, the lower round counts might be more "realistic" LOL, but if I'm going to drive, sign up, and wait my turn, I want to shoot more than 6 rounds in a stage. I've been to state level IDPA were I've shot less rounds than a local weekend uspsa/ipsc match. uspsa's higher round count, and less restrictions, mean more trigger time and more fun. |