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AR15.COM
10/24/2008 5:01:35 PM EDT
I finally got one.

I only buy 1911's... for the most part.  I own plenty of SA's and Ed Browns... you find something you like that works, and you keep buying it.  For years I've lusted after one handgun more than the others but I've never gotten it until now.

The ultimate 1911 to me is the FBI Professional model.  It's the only 1911 to have been tested extensively by the FBI and passed their rigorous accuracy and reliability tests for use by their HRT teams.

SA only builds a handful every 45 days to satisfy the FBI contract.  The FBI takes what they need and the rest from that run are sold to the general public.  The last one I saw had a serial number in the 3k range.  Since they have been making them almost 10 years now, that means they are only doing about 300 some guns a year.  Since the FBI gets a good number of these, I feel pretty lucky to have this pistol.

Each pistol is hand built by the SA Custom Shop under the watchful eye of Master Gunsmith David Williams.  Keep in mind that Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Les Baer and other masters tried twice to win this contract and failed.  Les Baer won it originally, but failed to produce the handguns up to the quality standards of the FBI, so he lost the contract shortly after winning it.  SA won on the second trial and has been the soul manufacturer going forward.

This pistols are the ultimate 1911, and in my opinion the ultimate fighting handgun.  I am so happy I finally got this bad boy.

The serial number is in the 400 range so it's one of the early runs.  It's been in a private collection since the first year they were offered and it's not been fired.




I can't wait to shoot this bad boy in the morning.  :D
10/24/2008 5:28:02 PM EDT
[#1]
congrats! cant wait for the range report!
10/24/2008 7:51:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Fantastic enjoy
10/24/2008 8:45:54 PM EDT
[#3]
First of all, congratulations on the buy.

Second, thank you for immediately posting pictures, not to mention good quality ones. I have browsed the net a few times to find nothing if not crap pictures of clones with respect to a bonafide Pro. Feel free to spam this thread with more if you get a chance.

Third, as an owner of such a collection of 1911s it would be a great service to all of us (should you have the time) if you'd do a writeup of your impressions of the pistol compared to your favorite Brown and Baer - say fit, finish, performance, etc.
10/24/2008 8:47:34 PM EDT
[#4]
A friend of mine has one with an FBI prefix...
10/24/2008 9:09:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Looks very nice and you have some good info.  I also agree with above in that you should feel free to post more pics.
10/24/2008 9:27:02 PM EDT
[#6]
First of all, congratulations. That's a great looking 1911. I can't wait to have one of my own. Hopefully some time next year, as I have one on order.

One thing I question is about the building part.


Quoted:
SA only builds a handful every 45 days to satisfy the FBI contract.  The FBI takes what they need and the rest from that run are sold to the general public.



Quoted:
A friend of mine has one with an FBI prefix...


They say when they are being built, the builders have no idea whether that pistol is going to an FBI agent or a civilian. They also say, the leftovers are the ones sold to civilians. Well, only the FBI agents get "FBI" prefix on the SN, as DoubleARon mentioned. Civilian models get the "CRG" prefix.

So does S.A. produce a bunch, then wait till the FBI orders some, then stamps the SN on them and have them finished? Which are rarer, so to speak? The railed ones or the non rail?

10/24/2008 10:58:26 PM EDT
[#7]
I believe all Pros are stamped with a CRG prefix for the serial.



Quoted:
Les Baer won it originally, but failed to produce the handguns up to the quality standards of the FBI, so he lost the contract shortly after winning it.  


And IIRC, Bear simply would not provide the lifetime warranty the the FBI wanted. I don't believe it have anything to do with quality.
10/24/2008 11:21:37 PM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
I finally got one.



.......... mine is a 1100



Quoted:
A friend of mine has one with an FBI prefix...







Quoted:
I believe all Pros are stamped with a CRG prefix for the serial.



Correct. The Initial guns had FBI prefix to the Ser #, however the FBI did not want that prefix being sold to the general public so SA changed the Ser # prefix to CRG. All current production Professional models have the CRG prefix in the serial number.
10/25/2008 4:38:32 AM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
I believe all Pros are stamped with a CRG prefix for the serial.



Quoted:
Les Baer won it originally, but failed to produce the handguns up to the quality standards of the FBI, so he lost the contract shortly after winning it.  


And IIRC, Bear simply would not provide the lifetime warranty the the FBI wanted. I don't believe it have anything to do with quality.


This is what happened.



The Les Baer SRP was designed for the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) to replace their Wayne Novak-customized Browning Hi-Powers. Les and his team of pistolsmiths started with a Para-Ordnance P14-45 frame (.45 ACP/14rds) and added a variety of custom parts and touches, including Wayne Novak's LoMount sights and Walter Birdsong's Black-T finish. Unfortunately, Matt Gish, the pistolsmith who did most of the work on the trial SRP pistols left Baer to start his own shop, Gunsmithing Inc.. Baer tried to cut some corners on the delivered contract pistols, including the use of a different finish than the Birdsong Black-T. Once delivery began, there were lots of problems, mostly magazine related. In the end, pistolsmith Steve Nastoff was called in to correct the delivered pistols' deficiencies. Only 75 SRP pistols were delivered out of the 250 ordered before the contract was canceled.


Those 75 pistols must be worth a MINT though...
10/25/2008 4:45:19 AM EDT
[#10]


They say when they are being built, the builders have no idea whether that pistol is going to an FBI agent or a civilian. They also say, the leftovers are the ones sold to civilians. Well, only the FBI agents get "FBI" prefix on the SN, as DoubleARon mentioned. Civilian models get the "CRG" prefix.

So does S.A. produce a bunch, then wait till the FBI orders some, then stamps the SN on them and have them finished? Which are rarer, so to speak? The railed ones or the non rail?

SA builds the guns every 45 days.  In each batch they will make between 45-50 guns.  When they are making them, there is no serial number on the guns.  The gunsmiths do not know if the gun they are building will be picked up by the FBI or if it will be over-run and get sold to the public.

Once the FBI tells SA how many from the build they want (sometimes they take them all, other times they may take none), the guns are serial numbered for the FBI and the others are serial numbered for civilian sales then shipped to fulfill standing orders.

I don't know what the story is on the railed ones.  
10/25/2008 7:03:25 AM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:
<snip>


Will, I'll be damned. Learn something new every day.
10/25/2008 7:48:55 AM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:


They say when they are being built, the builders have no idea whether that pistol is going to an FBI agent or a civilian. They also say, the leftovers are the ones sold to civilians. Well, only the FBI agents get "FBI" prefix on the SN, as DoubleARon mentioned. Civilian models get the "CRG" prefix.

So does S.A. produce a bunch, then wait till the FBI orders some, then stamps the SN on them and have them finished? Which are rarer, so to speak? The railed ones or the non rail?

SA builds the guns every 45 days.  In each batch they will make between 45-50 guns.  When they are making them, there is no serial number on the guns.  The gunsmiths do not know if the gun they are building will be picked up by the FBI or if it will be over-run and get sold to the public.

Once the FBI tells SA how many from the build they want (sometimes they take them all, other times they may take none), the guns are serial numbered for the FBI and the others are serial numbered for civilian sales then shipped to fulfill standing orders.

I don't know what the story is on the railed ones.  


I don't know where you got your information but it's wrong. Springfield originally designated all pistols built to the FBI standard as the “Bureau Model” and prefixed the serial number with FBI on the first 258 pistols,  but the FBI protested, so the name was changed to Professional Model. All Professional Model pistols whether for government issue or commercial sale are identical and carry the serial number prefix “CRG.” American Handgunner Jan 2000, bottom of page 6
10/25/2008 8:19:24 AM EDT
[#13]
I stand corrected. This is where I got my info from, though. I guess they were wrong. I don't know how old the article is, but they do state what I mentioned earlier and they clearly show a picture of a Pro with a SN higher than 258.
springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory06.php

The civilian consumer can NOT purchase an actual FBI SWAT 1911 pistol because all of those guns have the prefix &#34;FBI&#34; in their serial numbers and the Bureau will not allow any of the FBI-serial numbered guns be sold to anyone other than the agency itself. Civilians and individual police officers may purchase the CRG-prefix pistol, otherwise known as the Springfield Armory PROFESSIONAL pistol.

10/25/2008 10:26:00 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:








I stand corrected.http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/smiley_abused.gif This is where I got my info from, though. I guess they were wrong. I don't know how old the article is, but they do state what I mentioned earlier and they clearly show a picture of a Pro with a SN higher than 258.







springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory06.php







http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/images/SPhg_story6C_544.jpg







The civilian consumer can NOT purchase an actual FBI SWAT 1911 pistol because all of those guns have the prefix &#34;FBI&#34; in their serial numbers and the Bureau will not allow any of the FBI-serial numbered guns be sold to anyone other than the agency itself. Civilians and individual police officers may purchase the CRG-prefix pistol, otherwise known as the Springfield Armory PROFESSIONAL pistol.















Unfortunately that article has some misinformation in it. For example the Author Frank James states ...
"When Springfield Armory representatives were asked what the acronym
'CRG' stood for, they replied "Close Range Group". This seems an odd
name for a pistol built to such exacting standards for one of America's
premier law enforcement organizations, but it's the answer that was
given."

....... seems a little odd doesn't it? However when you consider that the FBI's specifications for the SWAT pistol were enumerated by the Critical
Incident Response Group (CIRG), an oversight group that coordinates the
HRT with the regional SWAT teams it's not hard to extrapolate the true origin of the current CRG prefix.
Here is one of the ORIGINAL "Bureau Model" 1911s Serial Number FBI 33 compliments of Novaksights.com



As you can see the difference is a little more than just a serial number prefix. Springfield currently builds the Professional to spec for both the FBI's SWAT and HRT teams. As a side note......... the railed version of the Professional is rollmarked "OPERATOR" on the slide but still carries the CRG prefixed serial number.

 
 
 
 
 
 
10/25/2008 12:17:54 PM EDT
[#15]
the railed version of the Professional is rollmarked "OPERATOR" on the slide but still carries the CRG prefixed serial number.


Do you know if the railed version is used by the FBI or is that something that's only sold to the public?
10/25/2008 12:38:33 PM EDT
[#16]
If it's got the CRG prefix Uncle buys it.


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