Posted: 1/19/2010 3:33:13 PM EDT
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So today in a class with a instructor who says he was a ATF agent for 29 years told my class, in a class debate that: when your out and someone bumps into you and things get heated and a fight happens, even though it was only a fist fight that if I pull a gun out and shoot the othe guy that it is 100% self defence. Even though there was no deadly threat to me at all that because there was no intent of a fight it's cool for me to pull a gun and fire.. And told this to the whole class..
Is it me or do you guys think a instructor should be tested before given a teachig job? |
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So today in a class with a instructor who says he was a ATF agent for 29 years told my class, in a class debate that: when your out and someone bumps into you and things get heated and a fight happens, even though it was only a fist fight that if I pull a gun out and shoot the othe guy that it is 100% self defence. Even though there was no deadly threat to me at all that because there was no intent of a fight it's cool for me to pull a gun and fire.. And told this to the whole class.. Is it me or do you guys think a instructor should be tested before given a teachig job? You'd be surprised what some "instructors" would tell ya. I'm always on the alert for bullshit; it's in my general orders. |
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Harold Fish Vs. Arizona. BTW, ATF agents seem to think it's always cool to shoot....... or fire a tank into a building full of women and children. What he can get away with, you can't.  Just from skimming a Harold Fish website, I'm not sure that I'd say that instructor was correct if that's what you were insinuating. It's yet another questionable matter left up to a judge & jury requiring a ton of money to defend yourself. Personally, I'd disagree with that instructor regardless of what his background is... maybe unless you know 100% that he'll be your judge in any possible case. |
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He worked for a certain agency, what does that tell you? Sounds like a good way to lose everything.
There is a section in Missouri Defense Law about physical fights escalating to that level, but if you shoot someone in a fight you started, you're in the shit in most cases. Now if you have no interest in fighting and you are 125 lbs and he is 350 and is hell bent on doing "Great Bodily Injury or Death" (TM) that's a different story. Disparity of force. |
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He worked for a certain agency, what does that tell you? Sounds like a good way to lose everything. There is a section in Missouri Defense Law about physical fights escalating to that level, but if you shoot someone in a fight you started, you're in the shit in most cases. Now if you have no interest in fighting and you are 125 lbs and he is 350 and is hell bent on doing "Great Bodily Injury or Death" (TM) that's a different story. Disparity of force. This same principal was explained to me in my CCW class in NC. My instructor decided to use me, being only about 5'8" 150lbs, as the example vs. him being 6'4" and fictionally 280lbs. Obviously if you start the fight, you're a dumb@ss and deserve to get a beatin' anyway. This reminds me of a thread from not too long ago about a member's friend who, in summary, provoked a fight outside of a concert and the ccw'ing member had to save his @ss. |
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He worked for a certain agency, what does that tell you? Sounds like a good way to lose everything. There is a section in Missouri Defense Law about physical fights escalating to that level, but if you shoot someone in a fight you started, you're in the shit in most cases. Now if you have no interest in fighting and you are 125 lbs and he is 350 and is hell bent on doing "Great Bodily Injury or Death" (TM) that's a different story. Disparity of force. This same principal was explained to me in my CCW class in NC. My instructor decided to use me, being only about 5'8" 150lbs, as the example vs. him being 6'4" and fictionally 280lbs. Obviously if you start the fight, you're a dumb@ss and deserve to get a beatin' anyway. This reminds me of a thread from not too long ago about a member's friend who, in summary, provoked a fight outside of a concert and the ccw'ing member had to save his @ss. i remember reading that. totally the friends fault. the op was in the right as he was in harms way. and then the aggressor's girlfriend wanted the gun 
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What I was trying to get as this ex peace officer/ATF agent said there is no such thing as the eaclation of force, and it is ok to use deadly force in self defence no matter what a long as you don't have intent.
In other words if someone bumps into me and the guy says "stay out of my way or else" and I say something like "sorry I isn't see you" and he says "well screw you and swings at me" it is perfectly ok for me to draw fire and kill the guy. Specificly because I isn't have intent to do anything when I came into the place. An I never said I believe what he said or agreed with it. Just seems like for someone who is teaching this to the masses of the school the head of the dept should have given this guy some sort of a review or something |
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during a fight; when do you make the call for use of deadly force ? ( please dont give me the if you think your life is in danger response, i know of that )
what im specifically referring to is, say the attackers punches are leave you dizzy(close to a knockout) ? numbers game as well say something like a 2 or 3 on 1 ? I have always wondered if say your past training (service) can be used against you (somewhat similar to to Conair) and with my luck i could have training as an ice cream cone vendor and the Da would still use it as an argument for their case. " Your honor this man is a deadly weapon with a snow-cone.....lol " Im sure that there are a dozen of hypotheticals that each of you can fathom and id like to hear em too obviously leo/da's discretion does play a big part in it as well |
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What your instructor should have said is, "if you get bumped into, as a CHL holder, it's your duty to make sure things don't turn into a fight."
Seriously, having a CHL limits your douchebaggery as a person because you are held to a higher standard. So no fist fights, no road rage, no nothing...stay out of trouble. |
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What your instructor should have said is, "if you get bumped into, as a CHL holder, it's your duty to make sure things don't turn into a fight." Seriously, having a CHL limits your douchebaggery as a person because you are held to a higher standard. So no fist fights, no road rage, no nothing...stay out of trouble. /thread. Well said. |