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AR15.COM
11/4/2008 8:42:12 PM EDT
I'm thinking of buying a TLE/RL II, and I've heard mixed things about the new Kimbers.
But since the election I figured I better start buying the guns I want now.

I want a tactical .45, so is the TLE/RL II worth it?
Or do you have suggestions for a different one, in the same price range?
11/4/2008 8:47:42 PM EDT
[#1]
You have a 50/50 chance of getting a serviceable pistol if you go Kimber.

Check out Colt, Dan Wesson, S&W, or Springfield.
11/4/2008 9:45:53 PM EDT
[#2]
if its a kimber w/ rail, i'd recommend and opt for the Warrior

that said, i'd take a Springfield Armory MC Operator or SW 1911 Rail over em also
11/5/2008 2:39:31 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
You have a 50/50 chance of getting a serviceable pistol if you go Kimber.





If that were true they would have been out of business years ago.  They make 60K +/- 1911s a year, sure they put out some dogs but they also put out a hell of a lot of 1911s that work just fine.

11/5/2008 3:31:36 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You have a 50/50 chance of getting a serviceable pistol if you go Kimber.





If that were true they would have been out of business years ago.  They make 60K +/- 1911s a year, sure they put out some dogs but they also put out a hell of a lot of 1911s that work just fine.


OK, 70/30.  I was in a bad mood last night watching the election.  
11/5/2008 8:47:12 AM EDT
[#5]
I have a TLEII and have had zero problems. Have around 300 hundred down the tube (i need ammo money) with one malfunction wich i beleive was caused by the factory mag wilsons are great.
11/12/2008 5:54:11 PM EDT
[#6]
I would go with the Kimber also.  I went all out and got the Kimber SIS RL.  Let me tell you I have been walking with a hard one since.  Love it.  They say they handle tight until broken in.  I didn't think that it did.  Great gun by a great company.
11/12/2008 7:04:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Nobody can anticipate the stupidity of the legislature, but If I was to act in accordance with your fears, the last thing I would be purchasing would be 1911s. With the exception of their single action "cocked and locked" carry, there is not a more benign automatic made due to their features (Long time military/civillian use, small capacity, sporting history, etc). Evil rifles, and longarms with certain features, along with higher capacity automatics would make the first targets to the legislature. Instead, I would check those things off the list first and use that time in order to learn more about 1911s so that you can become a better consumer and pick what works best for you.

Kimbers make production pistols, and any example of a production pistol ranges from absolute crap to an amazing sidearm, with the vast majority hovering within or slightly above/below the "average" margin. Few if any will assert that Kimber makes the worst production pistol, but few will assert they make the best either. When they make a conforming pistol, the buyer generally seems extremely happy with Kimbers, and like any other company, when they drop the ball, the customer becomes very unhappy. Kimber has suffered a rather blemished reputation over the past two years, give or take, of producing more non-conforming pistols than the consumer is comfortable with. In other words, EVERY company drops the ball on X% +/- a few points, but it seems as though Kimber has been "+ a few points more than the consumer will credit a company".

Other points to consider:

- Kimber's customer service has been reported as good, fair and crap, which leads me to believe that it's "fair". Para Ordnance was a company that started suffering a similar reputation for quality, but they also had the crutch of excellent service. Para's service has dipped and few informed consumers buy Para anymore. It may be a stretch to say that Kimber has sunk to the levels of Para, but if the ball is going to be dropped a couple of times in the game, you'd hope your team has someone who is very skilled at recovering fumbles.

- Kimber has a swartz safety installed in all but a couple of its pistols. This is a safety that was not contemplated in JMB's design, and at a minimum is a worthless part that complates things. At the worst, it's a part whose malfunction can be tragic if it occurs at the wrong time.

- Kimber makes tighter guns. There is something to be said about a well-built tight gun, but if the gun is less than well built, it is prone to have more reliability problems than a looser one. Most people tend to prefer the semicustom outfits do the tight guns due to their greater attention to detail instead of the hit or miss QC of production companies. More importantly, these tight guns require a break in period, whereas looser ones like Colts don't. So you may be prompted to shoot 500+ rounds before following up on a problem you experience. 500 rounds isn't cheap. That's another thing you'll have to consider with a tight production pistol... a potential added cost before anything gets fixed.

Take this as neither a condemendation nor an endorsement, but an invitation to learn more about Kimbers and the other choices before committing.
11/12/2008 8:07:05 PM EDT
[#8]
I can't comment at all on newer Kimbers, but I do own a Classic Stainless Target LE, made as part of an 800 gun run from their custom shop in 1998.  It's been a perfect pistol in the 3000+ rounds, mostly cast bullet reloads, that I've fed it so far, and I'm at least the third owner of it.  It appeared to be barely shot before I got my hands on it.

I've been told that the Kimber customer service has suffered recently, due to most of their long time, experienced employees leaving.  From what I've been told, if you return a Kimber for problems, the first thing they do is replace the complete top end.

I just got a new 1911.  I'm stuck in MA right now, so my options for brandsd of 1911's are limited.  I could get a S&W DK 1911, S&W 1911 PD Commander size, older, but still NIB S&W Sc Scandium Commander, or a nice 2-tone Para.  I opted against the full-size S&W and Para's because I already have my Kimber taht is getting all of its MIM parts replaced in a few weeks.  I opted for the older Sc Commander, only because its trigger was pretty much match grade.  Better than the newer PD's.  In the past 2 weeks, I've put just over 800 rounds through it with zero malfunctions, using the supplied Act mags and my Wilsons.
11/13/2008 4:24:56 AM EDT
[#9]
I purchased a Kimber Covert Pro about two years ago.  It has shot flawlessly using both factory and reloads.

11/13/2008 4:37:17 AM EDT
[#10]
I have a TLE II for duty and it has been 100% out of the box.  I like my Kimber and trust it with my life, that I bought a Pro TLE/RL II.  Cust. Service has been very polite with all my questions.
11/13/2008 4:59:38 AM EDT
[#11]
I wish could say the last 2 Kimbers I purchased ran well - they didn't and I'm not going futz around with sending them back. I have other 1911's that work, don't have any desire to mess with it. They no longer reside with me, nor will any more of them. Yeah, I'm a hater. Obviously they're not all bad but my experience has soured me. YMMV
11/13/2008 6:14:20 AM EDT
[#12]
I have a Kimber Ultra CDP II that has run 100% perfectly with factory, defense, and reload ammo.



Buy one with confidence!!

11/13/2008 9:53:12 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Nobody can anticipate the stupidity of the legislature, but If I was to act in accordance with your fears, the last thing I would be purchasing would be 1911s. With the exception of their single action "cocked and locked" carry, there is not a more benign automatic made due to their features (Long time military/civillian use, small capacity, sporting history, etc). Evil rifles, and longarms with certain features, along with higher capacity automatics would make the first targets to the legislature. Instead, I would check those things off the list first and use that time in order to learn more about 1911s so that you can become a better consumer and pick what works best for you.

Kimbers make production pistols, and any example of a production pistol ranges from absolute crap to an amazing sidearm, with the vast majority hovering within or slightly above/below the "average" margin. Few if any will assert that Kimber makes the worst production pistol, but few will assert they make the best either. When they make a conforming pistol, the buyer generally seems extremely happy with Kimbers, and like any other company, when they drop the ball, the customer becomes very unhappy. Kimber has suffered a rather blemished reputation over the past two years, give or take, of producing more non-conforming pistols than the consumer is comfortable with. In other words, EVERY company drops the ball on X% +/- a few points, but it seems as though Kimber has been "+ a few points more than the consumer will credit a company".

Other points to consider:

- Kimber's customer service has been reported as good, fair and crap, which leads me to believe that it's "fair". Para Ordnance was a company that started suffering a similar reputation for quality, but they also had the crutch of excellent service. Para's service has dipped and few informed consumers buy Para anymore. It may be a stretch to say that Kimber has sunk to the levels of Para, but if the ball is going to be dropped a couple of times in the game, you'd hope your team has someone who is very skilled at recovering fumbles.

- Kimber has a swartz safety installed in all but a couple of its pistols. This is a safety that was not contemplated in JMB's design, and at a minimum is a worthless part that complates things. At the worst, it's a part whose malfunction can be tragic if it occurs at the wrong time.

- Kimber makes tighter guns. There is something to be said about a well-built tight gun, but if the gun is less than well built, it is prone to have more reliability problems than a looser one. Most people tend to prefer the semicustom outfits do the tight guns due to their greater attention to detail instead of the hit or miss QC of production companies. More importantly, these tight guns require a break in period, whereas looser ones like Colts don't. So you may be prompted to shoot 500+ rounds before following up on a problem you experience. 500 rounds isn't cheap. That's another thing you'll have to consider with a tight production pistol... a potential added cost before anything gets fixed.

Take this as neither a condemendation nor an endorsement, but an invitation to learn more about Kimbers and the other choices before committing.


This is an excellent assessment and I concur.

11/13/2008 2:11:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I have a TLEII and have had zero problems.

with one malfunction


Whether it was the gun fault or the mag, you have not had "zero" problems in 300 rds.

JMHO
Doc
11/13/2008 4:02:21 PM EDT
[#15]
After the 500 rounds of break in my Raptor ran really well. I think they make a good gun for the money. They are made really tight and thats my only complaint. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another though.
11/13/2008 4:05:40 PM EDT
[#16]
My newly purchased Kimber Pro Carry II has been 100% reliable with the first 460 rounds.  I did change out the recoil spring before even shooting it.  Dropped in the Wolff Improved XP recoil spring.  I would like to see Kimber improve the recoil spring and drop the Swartz safety.  Just do not touch the grip safety during disassembly.  Supposedly, the Swartz safety prevents the firing pin from activating if the gun is dropped with a round in the chamber.  

I looked at Springfield, Colt and Smith & Wesson too.  Smith & Wesson customer service irrated me by twice returning my Walther PPS with FTF issues before finally fixing the problem.  I wanted to buy a 1911 made in America so I ruled out Springfield.  Major components made in Brazil.  Narrowed between Colt and Kimber.  Bought the Kimber first.  Colt is on order and expected soon.  
11/13/2008 11:42:47 PM EDT
[#17]
I personally have had experience with kimbers' both customer service and product.  I own a kimber eclipse pro II.  For a while when the firearm was new after my break inn period, I had several fte issues.  I kept getting stovepipes.  This was narrowed down to the external extractor design that kimber tried.  The custom shop sent m numerous external extractors to remedy the issues and no luck.  Every time the firearm came back they said it was test fired with a variety of ammo and the issues did not duplicate.  Famous questions were, was the gun properly lubed and if I was limp wristing the gun.  Lol.  I know how to properly grip a 1911.  There were lots of issues I have heard of on 1911forums as well.  I believe all the new productions are back to the original design 1911 with internal extractors.  After dealing with kimber for many months and horrible customer service experience, they in the end replaced my slide on my kimber with the internal extractor design.  Since then I have yet to experience any issues.  This experience left a very bad taste for me with kimbers.  I love them and I would trust my life with my daily carried kimber, but my customer experience was not good.  A lot of people have never had any issues with the custom shop at kimber, however some like myself went down a long road to get issues taken care of.  In short if you do go with a kimber, STAY AWAY from the external extractor slide.  The 1911's true original design did not use an external extractor.  It worked like it should.  The external extractor was to blame for a majority of the issues kimber customers were experiencing.  Especially since their external extractor design did not work well.  It was a hit and miss, some people have never had issues whereas some did.  I do hope that their customer service has changed.  My gun came back to perform as it should have in the first place, however due to careless handling at the custom shop my gun has marks from individuals who were either careless or did not know how to handle a 1911.  I wrote many letters and spoke to kimbers vp of sales.  No positive response.  Good luck with your purchase.  Not to scare you with my post, just some information you might want to know.  Like I said I would trust my gun with my life and my families if I had to depend on it.
11/16/2008 6:29:38 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
I personally have had experience with kimbers' both customer service and product.  I own a kimber eclipse pro II.  For a while when the firearm was new after my break inn period, I had several fte issues.  I kept getting stovepipes.  This was narrowed down to the external extractor design that kimber tried.  The custom shop sent m numerous external extractors to remedy the issues and no luck.  Every time the firearm came back they said it was test fired with a variety of ammo and the issues did not duplicate.  Famous questions were, was the gun properly lubed and if I was limp wristing the gun.  Lol.  I know how to properly grip a 1911.  There were lots of issues I have heard of on 1911forums as well.  I believe all the new productions are back to the original design 1911 with internal extractors.  After dealing with kimber for many months and horrible customer service experience, they in the end replaced my slide on my kimber with the internal extractor design.  Since then I have yet to experience any issues.  This experience left a very bad taste for me with kimbers.  I love them and I would trust my life with my daily carried kimber, but my customer experience was not good.  A lot of people have never had any issues with the custom shop at kimber, however some like myself went down a long road to get issues taken care of.  In short if you do go with a kimber, STAY AWAY from the external extractor slide.  The 1911's true original design did not use an external extractor.  It worked like it should.  The external extractor was to blame for a majority of the issues kimber customers were experiencing.  Especially since their external extractor design did not work well.  It was a hit and miss, some people have never had issues whereas some did.  I do hope that their customer service has changed.  My gun came back to perform as it should have in the first place, however due to careless handling at the custom shop my gun has marks from individuals who were either careless or did not know how to handle a 1911.  I wrote many letters and spoke to kimbers vp of sales.  No positive response.  Good luck with your purchase.  Not to scare you with my post, just some information you might want to know.  Like I said I would trust my gun with my life and my families if I had to depend on it.



Your experience sounds almost exactly like mine.  I bought a Pro II TLE/RL.  I had FTE issues on every single mag.  It would not run a mag without a jam.  I sent it back to Kimber via UPS overnight at MY expense.  Kimber changed out the barrel, extractor and extractor spring.  It was also returned with some extra marks that were not there before.  They did not refund my $50+ shipping costs either but they did give me two extra mags for my trouble

I called and emailed Kimber but I was confronted by a very defensive individual who was less than polite.  He seemed to think I was asking alot to be reimbursed for my shipping costs.  Afterall, I bought a $900 gun that didn't work.  Why should I have to pay another $50 so they can finally get it right?  Never did see any money out of them.

The gun now works perfectly but I don't know if I'd ever buy another Kimber.  
11/22/2008 4:11:29 PM EDT
[#19]
I have 2 Kimbers. The Tactical Ultra II and a Tactical Pro. I liked the Ultra II because of the size. Kimber only made 300+ of this model pistol in 2002. I have had a few fail to feed problems which turned out to be magizne problems. other than that its worked great.
My Tactical Pro has run great right out of the box with no problems. I have about 5000 rounds through each pistol. Both pistols were worth the $$$ I paid. The same goes for the 2 springfields, 2 colts, and my WW2 Remington Rand. I will buy another kimber. The next Kimber I am getting will be a TLE. Its a good pistol. Shop around for the best price. Right now my tactical 1911 is my springfield military operator. I love that pistol.
I carry all my 1911's,  The mood i'm in determines which pistol I carry. LOL.
RLTW
11/23/2008 5:12:16 AM EDT
[#20]
kimber raptor II 1 year old only 300 rounds but so far so good! i dont get home much!