Posted: 7/6/2005 7:17:34 AM EDT
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As it seems our society becomes more litigious with each passing day, I also have become increasingly concerned about how an aggressive attorney may somehow twist my use of a firearm to defend myself or my family into an attack on the BG's rights or portray me as a radical gun nut who was using the ultimate "killing tool" package. I have been shooting my entire life and I understand the measure of responsibility that comes with owning, carrying and possibly using firearms for self-defense; that being said, however, I do not wish to give said attorney any assistance along the way based upon my choice of firearm or caliber. For example, the 4 lb trigger on my 1911 as being a hair trigger, or the fact that I was using a single action at all, or the 127 +p+ Ranger in my G19 and Sig 225 as being the repackaged Black Talon, and so on. I am interested in anyone's experience or expertise on this matter as it relates minimizing personal liability when choosing pistols and calibers for self-defense. As it stands today, I am leaning toward the "if it is OK for the LEO, it is OK for me" philosophy - which would eliminate my favored 1911. I practice regularly and am proficient with a number of firearm action-types and calibers so I have flexibility. I would prefer to pick one combination and stick with it and obtain the highest level of proficiency, I just don't want that choice to come back and bite me later if I can help it. I look forward to reading your posts! __________________ Rights are like body parts - they only keep working if you exercise them. |
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Go to a reputable training school/instructor. If you ever have to deal with the legal system after a shooting, chances are, the instructor(s) will testify on your behalf. If you go to a training course, you are putting yourself on the same footing as a LEO (in regards to level of training). Another thing I was taught was that if you are involved in a shooting, plan on spending some time in the pokey. It may be a few hours, it may be longer, but plan on being locked-up. Plan on your guns being confiscated also. Make a copy of your permit and keep it in a safe place. On another forum, a member was involved in a situation and he was arrested. The anti-gun DA took his CHP, and then later charged the person with not having a permit. The bottom line: Plan for the worst, and hope for the best. If you have to use your weapon, it had better be for those you truly love and are willing to go through the legal wringer for... |
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My opinion only... Keep your pistol(s) relatively stock and be able to articulate why any mods were done (night sights are good) Be cautious about removing or neutering any factory installed safety device. Use only factory ammo and then probably only JHP stuff from the "Big Four". Document any training you have had, or take in the future. If you have not taken any good, "formal" training, try and do so asap. If IDPA is all you can afford, then go and do that this weekend if possible. Watch your mouth...do not be known as someone who says stuff like... "Man, I would'a blown that fu**er outta his socks!" etc. It WILL bite you in the ass. Say it with me now..."Attorney"... "Officer, I was attacked and was in fear for my life. (family's lives, etc.) I want to co-operate, and I intend to do so to the fullest, but I am very shaken up right now and would like to speak to my ATTORNEY first, I am sure you understand...thank you." (If you do not know or have a criminal attorney...few of us do...spend some time and $150 or so to consult with one before something happens and keep his phone numbers handy.) Personal umbrella liability insurance Read Mas Ayoob's books, and take the info to heart, but don't let them scare you to death. |
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you might want to consider protecting your assets (house) against getting a lien slapped on you. llc and the like. it would suck if you could'nt sell or pass down your property to your kids, etc. many leos are taught to protect themselves civily. talk to them and get ideas. some people recommend that you research what local cops carry for weapon and ammo, so that you can say, but our local finest carry.... but since that means glocks in my area, i'm out of luck there-i won't buy one-they don't fit my hand (i just have to make do w/ them because they are issue- i carry a sig off duty). have other options-oc keyring thingy. yes, they're quite worthless in reality but you can point to it as being an option that you had, but that the situation did'nt allow for it,etc. don't be a cowboy/antagonist-don't rush into things. use the gray matter and call it in if you can. |
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This is all great input, I really appreciate it! I have completed multiple levels of training through the NRA HQ (basic, intermediate, advanced, idpa), read Ayoob's book (and most every other related book for that matter...ha!) and have a liability umbrella policy. I think you are right - I am going to stick to the sig or the glock; local sheriff's office uses P220 and P225 but P220 is too big for my hands so that would mean 225; surrounding counties use Glock 17's and 22's. If I stayed with 9mm do you think there is any problem carrying the Win Ranger 127 +p+ as a civvy? I really like the round. Thanks again for all of the replies! |
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I'm an NRA instructor so please understand that I'm not trying to degrade their training. The NRA does not teach fighting classes. At least not in their non-LEO courses. They teach safety and static marksmanship principles. IDPA is not a place to learn tactics; it's a place to practice what you already know how to do correctly. If you are serious about defense worry about surviving the fight (problem 1) before you worry about anything else (problem 2). Carry a gun that works EVERY time and defense rounds that always work in that gun from any of the major manufacturers. Take a pistol fighting class (or 3) and practice realistic defensive skills such as shooting from retention or shooting from the ground. If you really want to show that you understand the dynamics of defense carry OC and get some empty hand skills. Ammo choice is about 39th on the list of things to worry about. |
| Where you live in the US will also have a profound impact on whether or not a DA will harass you after a "good shoot". In Georgia you probably wouldn't be hauled in afterward; in NJ you would probably be shafted into serving time on some sort of charge...different regions, different attitudes. |
Hell, they don't teach fighting IN their LEO classes. |
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Don't worry about the 1911. I know around here, it's typical for 1911's to be issued to specially trained personnel like SWAT. The school of thought being that they have the extra training and knowledge of weapons to allow the to carry cocked and locked when many LEO's care so little about weapons that they are more a danger to themselves than bad guys. If you are comfortable with the 1911 and shoot it well, carry it and don't worry. Just remember that you are training and carrying a weapon unlike most, and requires specific training and muscle memory. Practice often and strive, above all else, to be in the right, and you should be fine. I understand your questions about being painted by a silver-tongued attorney as a firearm-wielding nut. I worry about that often myself. |
Great post !!! After getting involved with "fighting" training all of my high assessments of my abilities and what I THOUGHT I knew went right out the door !!!! |
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