Posted: 12/8/2009 10:14:25 AM EDT
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I have an XD9sc and a Glock 19 but I generally carry my Glock 29. I'm interested in getting something for a little deeper concealment. Thoughts have hit on the new Taurus 709, the Walther PPS, maybe a Sig P239 (but I think it's no narrower than the 19) or maybe even an older 908/3913. Just not sure which route I'd like to go and I don't like the Kahr PM9. Then, I'm thinking... maybe trade the 19 out for a 26. I'm not interested in paying 600 or 700 dollars for something untested (PPS); I like the Sig but not sure it's offering me anything over what I already have.
I used to think single stack 9s were unnecessary but maybe i'm getting older or more open thinking but I think I'm ready to try one. I tend to like the short Glocks with the pearce extension (I have huge hands). The 19 hasn't really done anything for me, I have 2 17s, I have 2 XD9s and an XD9sc, so my 9mm is covered and the 19 tends to be the one on the shelf. But, I do have a very hard time letting go of pistols that I've aquired. Any thoughts? Maybe I should try carrying the 19 some and see how the width feels, then if I like it, I can opt for a 26 and the shorter grip for deeper ccw. |
| I have a 19 and a 26 among other glocks. I love the 26 - great gun and as accurate as my 19. I had a Kahr CW9 - it was an ok gun, but I really didnt care for the long double action trigger pull. The Kahr is way more concealable than the 26. I handled the Taurus 709 slim recently - I've found the trigger pull to be very light, but too damm long. On the good side, it has the double strike thing, where you can pull the trigger again on the same round w/o having to pull the slide back to re-cock the gun. The P239 is great, but like you said, almost as bulky as your Glock 19. I tried the PPS - didnt like the grip and thought it was too expensive for what it was. I end up buying a new Kel-Tec PF9, which is cheap and works. Dont get me wrong, that is no range gun, it will probably last no more than 5,000 rounds - but it goes bang everytime I pull the trigger. |
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I have a 19 and a 26 among other glocks. I love the 26 - great gun and as accurate as my 19. I had a Kahr CW9 - it was an ok gun, but I really didnt care for the long double action trigger pull. The Kahr is way more concealable than the 26. I handled the Taurus 709 slim recently - I've found the trigger pull to be very light, but too damm long. On the good side, it has the double strike thing, where you can pull the trigger again on the same round w/o having to pull the slide back to re-cock the gun. The P239 is great, but like you said, almost as bulky as your Glock 19. I tried the PPS - didnt like the grip and thought it was too expensive for what it was. I end up buying a new Kel-Tec PF9, which is cheap and works. Dont get me wrong, that is no range gun, it will probably last no more than 5,000 rounds - but it goes bang everytime I pull the trigger. thanks for the info. It does appear the little Kahr is quite a bit more concealable than the 9mm glocks.... hence my dilemma. I have several 9mms in similar width, so I feel I should be looking at something 'different' but I just don't like the Kahrs. The PPS, I actually like the way it looks and feels, haven't shot it though and at that price, it's a no go for it's intended purpose. I've generally stayed away from Kel Tec to but maybe I'll look at them. If I don't like the Kahr, didn't think I'd like the Kel Tecs... The roads keep leading back to the 709 but I'm very Taurus shy. ETA: Haven't looked at the PF9 at all actually. Just looking at it, the specs look doable. I don't like 'pocket pistols', I have huge hands, I want something small but still big enough for me to grab onto. This may fit fairly well. Can you fit your three fingers on there with the mag turndown? Length: 5.85" Height: 4.3" Width: .88" |
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I was having the same dilemma as you do. Well, I have big hands too and on the G26 I can fit two fingers only besides the trigger finger, but it is surprisingly controllable. You should try one. Problem with the 26, it is as wide as the 19, so it wont fit well on an ankle holster and too bulky for a pocket. The Kahr and Taurus and the Kel-Tec will. I have a pair of Taurus, - one revolver model 617 and a Taurus TCP. I think I was lucky because both work just fine. I guess the problem with Taurus is their customer service, which is messed up.
Right now the weather is not too here in Texas, and I am carrying a Glock 23 under my jacket (I love glocks - G19/G26/G23/G27/G21/G31) and the Taurus TCP in my pocket. When it gets warm again, the Kel-Tec PF9 is deployed into service, and when I can afford to wear a loose shirt, its either the G26 or the G27. |
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I love single stack 9mms. However, as an owner of a P239 and a 3913, you're not gaining much of anything over the G19 (my daily carry) with these two.
The CW9 will be noticeably thinner than the G19. I had one but it was weird to me. It was nice and thin, but if I was carrying IWB there was really no reason not to just carry a G19 or a G26 (for me). But the CW9 was still too large for me to pocket or ankle carry due to its grip length. At least the PM9 would give you these options as well. |
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so Hero, you're not feeling much of a difference with the 3913 vs 19 or 239?
i'm a glock guy as well and i have a hard time seeing the point of depending my life on a $250 weapon when I have a closet full of glocks, hks, sigs and springfields... lol I pretty much always carry my G29 and if I carry 9mm, then it's my xd9sc; both of these have short grips that help keep them from printing. what keeps me from carrying the 19 is the longer grip and printing. but, i could carry it while the weather is crappy and see how it feels, if it's narrow enough then maybe the 26 with the shorter grip will do what i want (plus it's another glock to get  ). i don't ankle carry and don't intend to start; i typically iwb with a xd specific crossbreed and my xd and glocks both fit pretty well in there. sometimes i'll do owb with a don hume.
been researching the pf9 and it seems like for the money it's a pretty good buy and honestly, i'll probably end up buying one of these. i like the way the taurus 709 looks and feels but seems the extractor problem is hit or miss; which i can deal with but what I can't deal with is horrible customer service. don't like kahr. like the pps but not the price. i actually like the pps quite a bit... damn them. |
| How about a Springfield EMP in 9mm? The 1911 is already known for its narrow grip, and the EMP takes it a step further by scaling down the 1911 frame for 9mm. Throw some narrow concealment grips on there and you've got a good CCW weapon. Only downfall is that EMPs are expensive ($1000) and can be hard to find in stock. |
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The CW9 will be noticeably thinner than the G19. I had one but it was weird to me. It was nice and thin, but if I was carrying IWB there was really no reason not to just carry a G19 or a G26 (for me). But the CW9 was still too large for me to pocket or ankle carry due to its grip length. At least the PM9 would give you these options as well. ^ |
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I have a CW9 and my father has the single stack Keltec. The Keltec has a slightly shorter grip so he can pocket carry it if desired. It is not as acurrate as the Kahr and the trigger and sights are worse but it has gone bang every time (over 500 rounds) and feeds Ranger 147 gr with no issue. For it's price and for close range defense, I think the Keltec is a good product but I will keep my Kahr.
You could also consider a 9mm 1911 Commander or Officer size. They are thinner than the options you currently have. |
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so Hero, you're not feeling much of a difference with the 3913 vs 19 or 239? i'm a glock guy as well and i have a hard time seeing the point of depending my life on a $250 weapon when I have a closet full of glocks, hks, sigs and springfields... lol I pretty much always carry my G29 and if I carry 9mm, then it's my xd9sc; both of these have short grips that help keep them from printing. what keeps me from carrying the 19 is the longer grip and printing. but, i could carry it while the weather is crappy and see how it feels, if it's narrow enough then maybe the 26 with the shorter grip will do what i want (plus it's another glock to get ). i don't ankle carry and don't intend to start; i typically iwb with a xd specific crossbreed and my xd and glocks both fit pretty well in there. sometimes i'll do owb with a don hume.
been researching the pf9 and it seems like for the money it's a pretty good buy and honestly, i'll probably end up buying one of these. i like the way the taurus 709 looks and feels but seems the extractor problem is hit or miss; which i can deal with but what I can't deal with is horrible customer service. don't like kahr. like the pps but not the price. i actually like the pps quite a bit... damn them. Grip length wise they're virtually the same––not helping you with grip printing. Width wise they're also quite similar––no felt difference IWB for me. The only real smaller dimension is in slide length, but if you're carrying IWB, that's all in your pants anyway. Carrying the G26 with a flush 10 round magazine will print a bit less IWB. It is 1/2" shorter in length so that's 1/2' less sticking out your back. That said, I never felt like this 1/2" reduction made a big enough difference to move me away from the G19. If I never had need to carry on my ankle, I probably wouldn't have a need for my G26. |
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The more I carry my Walther PPS the more I appreciate it. Mine was one of the first "Limited Edition" packages, so it came with three size magazines which have the effect of allowing me to tune the pistol for grip and degree of concealment. It isn't anything other than a very flat, very functional tool. I grudgingly leave better-admired firearms at home and carry the PPS in a Kydex holster - a combination that is about as thin as you can get. In addition the pistol is perfectly accurate and seems to improve with use.
Looking at the comment in the OP about the Glock 26, I think you should investigate this Walter model and will be pleasantly surprised. |
| I've had my PPS for about 2 months.Got about 600 rounds through it with zero malfs.I get more impressed with it every time I take it to the range.Yes,they are a little over priced and the mags are a pain to find at the moment.IMO,the best single stack 9mm going at the moment.If you like Glock they are worth looking in to.I've given up my dream of Glock building a single stack 9mm. |
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according to GlockFAQ, the 19 is 5" and the 26 is 4.17", including mags. My 29 (on GlockFAQ) is 4.47" not including the Pearce extension I put on and it was a nicer carry today after I switched off from carrying the 19 all morning. Carried the 19 till about 2 then went home and swapped out to the 29 to do a back to back. The 29 was more comfortable due to the height. I think the 26 might work great for what I'm looking for.
Actually, the 29 would be an improvement if I'd take one of the mags and put the stock plate back on, that'd shorten it up a bit. One mag with andone without for different scenarios. Nonetheless, I'm coming to the realization that, for me, the 19 is too long to be short but to short to be long.... kinda stuck in the middle, jack of all trades, but not perfect for any one thing. Only use it has seen is about 250/300 rounds on the 2nd day of a 2 day gun class. It does shoot good, not putting it down and it's plenty accurate but it just doesn't do much for me. I'm considering trying to trade it for a 29, locally or elsewhere; only prob for me there is it would be cool to have a full trio (17, 19, 26) |
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I have had G19s forever, but moved to a 22C in .40. However, I carry a Rohrbaugh R9 in my pocket or a high rise belt holster. My hands are long but I can control it just fine. I carry it everywhere at all times, and it is never noticeable to me. See if you can get your hands on one. They are superbly made. The snagless design is great for concealment.
(Turn your audio down) http://rohrbaughfirearms.com/ |
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I used to see little use in single-stack 9's as well, until I got my CHL. Since then I've tried lots of different gun/holster combo's (mostly IWB,) and have settled on a Kahr CW9 as my daily carry. It's not just thin, but very light. Really leaves no excuse not to carry.
Having said that, I'm not 100% happy with it. I got an early one that had trigger problems (no bang) and it had to go back to the factory twice. (second time went back just after arrival from first "repair", but they got it right that time) I also don't like the long DOA type pull. But it's just so easy to carry all day IWB. I can't really do that comfortably with my G19 or my XD45compact. I have looked at the PPS, but the grip felt too angular and the Euro mag release didn't impress me either. But I may pick one up oneday. Tex78 |
| I have a G19 and have been bouncing around the 239 myself as a slimmer option. I just stopped by the gun store today to compare them and at its widest point the 239 is actually a tiny bit wider, maybe 1/8 inch or so. The G19 does generally feel a little wider but I dont think the sig offers me anything that I would be willing to sacrifice 7 rounds for. Not to mention the Sig has a very long trigger pull on it (Not to insult any Sig fans out there because I think they are an amazing gun). |
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I have a G19 and have been bouncing around the 239 myself as a slimmer option. I just stopped by the gun store today to compare them and at its widest point the 239 is actually a tiny bit wider, maybe 1/8 inch or so. The G19 does generally feel a little wider but I dont think the sig offers me anything that I would be willing to sacrifice 7 rounds for. Not to mention the Sig has a very long trigger pull on it (Not to insult any Sig fans out there because I think they are an amazing gun). good info. same thing with the XD9sc. The grip is wider than the 19 and the frame under the slide is fairly wide to, not as streamlined vertically as the 19. |
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How about a Springfield EMP in 9mm? The 1911 is already known for its narrow grip, and the EMP takes it a step further by scaling down the 1911 frame for 9mm. Throw some narrow concealment grips on there and you've got a good CCW weapon. Only downfall is that EMPs are expensive ($1000) and can be hard to find in stock. This ^ |
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I think I've narrowed it down to either a Glock 26 or maybe attempting a PPS 9mm. I know a lot don't like the ergos but I actually like the way the PPS feels in hand. The 26 would be ideal as I have 2 17s and a 19 so mags and all would crossover. But, I'm wanting something slim and feel that even if I got a 26, I'd still want something narrower (single stack)...
EMP looks good but $$$ we'll see. |
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Guys,
Any reason to not consider a 908? I've been continuing some research and it looks to be a pretty good gun that's been out awhile, pretty reliable as well as accurate. Not too mention, it's cheaper and has more steel in it than the PPS and Kahrs. One person mentioned it wasn't much different than the 26 grip-wise with the Hogue grips but swapping to originals narrowed it some. Specs online show it to be narrower than 1". At this point, it's either PPS or S&W 908. ETA: (G26 is a non-question because I'll own one soon enough anyways but it's not one that I consider for a deeper concealment pistol) |
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The PPS is an awesome gun. I was actually freaked out by how accurate that little thing was. I do like the Smiths as well but have never tried to carry one.
I wouldn't let the price on the PPS scare you. The going "good deal" price is in the $540 range (that's what they were going for in the local shop's sale the other day). Just make sure you get one of the newer models (no AB––––- serial #'s) to avoid any issues. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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I do like that PPS... has a good feel to it, imo. For $550, I'd get one.... locally they're wanting $650 or more... not going to pay that much. Maybe I'll check out gunbroker when I'm ready. Need to sell my XD9sc first. GunBroker's prices are generally not that good. I would try to find a larger volume local dealer if you have one. $650 is standard asking price for a PPS, that is in no way the lowest they can go. Whether it's the lowest they're willing to go is another story. More than $650 and they're just trying to stick it to you. Good luck. |
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Guys, Any reason to not consider a 908? I've been continuing some research and it looks to be a pretty good gun that's been out awhile, pretty reliable as well as accurate. Not too mention, it's cheaper and has more steel in it than the PPS and Kahrs. One person mentioned it wasn't much different than the 26 grip-wise with the Hogue grips but swapping to originals narrowed it some. Specs online show it to be narrower than 1". At this point, it's either PPS or S&W 908. ETA: (G26 is a non-question because I'll own one soon enough anyways but it's not one that I consider for a deeper concealment pistol) I had a 908 and it was a good reliable little pistol. The PPS will be quite a bit smaller though. The way I got the 908 was due to S&W excellent customer service. I had a SW9M Sigma compact that had problems. S&W had discontinued it, so they said send it in. A week later they called me and asked if they could send me a brand new pistol to replace it. They sent me the new S&W 908 in 9mm which was a great pistol. Needless to say I have been enamored of S&W customer service ever since, though I will never buy another Sigma. I did buy their M&P9 and love that pistol. You should seriously check out the M&P compact. It's smaller than the 908 IIRC. |