Posted: 6/1/2009 8:07:47 PM EDT
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I shot a new out of the box P9 the other day and when racking the slide the first round of a loaded magazine would "nose dive" on the feed ramp. I would have to download the magazine a few rounds to chamber a round. I tried several different mags and different brands of ammo and all had the same problem.
Is this typical for the polymer framed Kahrs? I have a early first generation K9 and never had this problem when it was new. NAD |
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I shot a new out of the box P9 the other day and when racking the slide the first round of a loaded magazine would "nose dive" on the feed ramp. I would have to download the magazine a few rounds to chamber a round. I tried several different mags and different brands of ammo and all had the same problem. Is this typical for the polymer framed Kahrs? I have a early first generation K9 and never had this problem when it was new. NAD have u tried to load it using the slide lock rleease lever??Does it do it also that way??? If so, I would venture you have a bad magazine. Try it using the slide lock lrelease lefver and see if that takes care of that nosedive.. |
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I tried it with several mags. Same problem. I just read that Kahr recommends the slide release method noting that the rounds could nose dive otherwise. Not good IMHO for a defensive handgun. My K9 does not have this problem. I hope it gets better as the gun breaks in.
NAD |
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I tried it with several mags. Same problem. I just read that Kahr recommends the slide release method noting that the rounds could nose dive otherwise. Not good IMHO for a defensive handgun. My K9 does not have this problem. I hope it gets better as the gun breaks in. NAD did using the slide release lever solve the issues. If so, more rounds down range the guh will loosen up some and then u canproperly rackthe slide to load the weapon. It is very common when new to have what u are having . That is one reason why kahr recommends using the slidle lock lever.. actually for a defensive handgun there is nothing wrong withusing the lever. One thing for sure, IT WILL RELEASE the slide every time witht he same velocity needed to load the round, where as,if one in a "defense" situation tends to ride the slide any, then issue can occur. You can rack the kahr slides, that is a non issue, My PM9 I can rack with ease both ways. One should practice the "tap, rack, bang thing with his weapon to.. I do think your ok with the P9 and maybe rushing "reliability" alittle bit to. If it feed properly using the slide lock lever , then there is nothing wrong with the gun, it is then shooter error... |
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If Kahr has to acknowledge it in the manual....it's there due to a poor design IMHO. Even if the feed ramp is offset for a thinner profile if that's whats causing this "feature". Using the slide stop is great for competition shooting such as IPSC, but every defensive handgun class I have had stresses NOT using the slide stop. It's has to do with fine versus gross motor skills in a highly stressful situation. I don't know how many times I fumbled reloading from slide lock during competition missing that thing. it's quick, just not fool proof. Not having the option to do both if required on a defensive carry gun is not acceptable IMHO. Like I said, my Kahr K9 doesn't have this "feature" for some reason. If it did I would get rid of it if it couldn't be fixed.
NAD |
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If Kahr has to acknowledge it in the manual....it's there due to a poor design IMHO. Even if the feed ramp is offset for a thinner profile if that's whats causing this "feature". Using the slide stop is great for competition shooting such as IPSC, but every defensive handgun class I have had stresses NOT using the slide stop. It's has to do with fine versus gross motor skills in a highly stressful situation. I don't know how many times I fumbled reloading from slide lock during competition missing that thing. it's quick, just not fool proof. Not having the option to do both if required on a defensive carry gun is not acceptable IMHO. Like I said, my Kahr K9 doesn't have this "feature" for some reason. If it did I would get rid of it if it couldn't be fixed. NAD then peddle it and move on, Nothing wrong using the slide stop either. don't know what classes you atteneded but that is not the norm to say NEVER use a slide stop. If one hand is injured the sldies top is a one handed feature. The problem as I see it is that you don't know how to rack a damn slide and now your blaming kahr for it. Peddle it and buy you a good gun. coming on here ranting about it is not going to solve your issues. I bet I can rack your slide on that P9 every time with ease. Now you blame poor design due to a statement where kahr recommend using the slide stop. that is just not true. Offset feed ramp has nothing to due with improper racking of the slide and if you can load properly by using the slide lock release and then not right by racking the slide then the error is in the shooter, not the gun... Heh, not allguns are for everyone either. Also just sounds like youdon't even have many rounds down range yet either. For a poor designed gun, sure a hell of alot of people buying them, sure alot of people carrying them. but it's always the gun...... If u fumbled using a slide stop, , wow. Kahrs probably hve the biggest slide stop lever on any gun 
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| When I purchased My PM9 back in January I brought it home, cleaned it , lubed it ( there is a chart floating around here somewhere ) and racked the slide 500 times . Cleaned it and re-lubed it and ran the 200 rounds threw it without any issues. All this from a pistol when I picked it up at the LGS and tried to open it seemed like cracking open a old rusty safe LOL ! Thats how close the tolerances are with this weapon ( to Me that shows higher quality ) . I used the slide lock release to load magazines in the beginning , but now can rack the slide and have no issues @ +1,000 rounds . Moving metal parts have micro flaws in the surface that need to melde with there counterparts ! I trust My life, but even more so My Grandchildrens' lives with this weapon. This pistol is never in the safe ! Hope You work out Your issues with Yours , the gun in the end will be worth it . ......WVleo |
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If Kahr has to acknowledge it in the manual....it's there due to a poor design IMHO. Even if the feed ramp is offset for a thinner profile if that's whats causing this "feature". Using the slide stop is great for competition shooting such as IPSC, but every defensive handgun class I have had stresses NOT using the slide stop. It's has to do with fine versus gross motor skills in a highly stressful situation. I don't know how many times I fumbled reloading from slide lock during competition missing that thing. it's quick, just not fool proof. Not having the option to do both if required on a defensive carry gun is not acceptable IMHO. Like I said, my Kahr K9 doesn't have this "feature" for some reason. If it did I would get rid of it if it couldn't be fixed. NAD If it's true you don't yet have any rounds down range, put 150-250 rounds down range and then try racking the slide. You seem to keep missing everyone saying "it's a completely different pistol after the break-in". I can rack my slide just fine now. But, you might be right, you got a piece of crap, I'll give you $300 for it. |
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If Kahr has to acknowledge it in the manual....it's there due to a poor design IMHO. Even if the feed ramp is offset for a thinner profile if that's whats causing this "feature". Using the slide stop is great for competition shooting such as IPSC, but every defensive handgun class I have had stresses NOT using the slide stop. It's has to do with fine versus gross motor skills in a highly stressful situation. I don't know how many times I fumbled reloading from slide lock during competition missing that thing. it's quick, just not fool proof. Not having the option to do both if required on a defensive carry gun is not acceptable IMHO. Like I said, my Kahr K9 doesn't have this "feature" for some reason. If it did I would get rid of it if it couldn't be fixed. NAD then peddle it and move on, Nothing wrong using the slide stop either. don't know what classes you atteneded but that is not the norm to say NEVER use a slide stop. If one hand is injured the sldies top is a one handed feature. The problem as I see it is that you don't know how to rack a damn slide and now your blaming kahr for it. Peddle it and buy you a good gun. coming on here ranting about it is not going to solve your issues. I bet I can rack your slide on that P9 every time with ease. Now you blame poor design due to a statement where kahr recommend using the slide stop. that is just not true. Offset feed ramp has nothing to due with improper racking of the slide and if you can load properly by using the slide lock release and then not right by racking the slide then the error is in the shooter, not the gun... Heh, not allguns are for everyone either. Also just sounds like youdon't even have many rounds down range yet either. For a poor designed gun, sure a hell of alot of people buying them, sure alot of people carrying them. but it's always the gun...... If u fumbled using a slide stop, , wow. Kahrs probably hve the biggest slide stop lever on any gun
Read for content....since when is not equivalent to never as a recommendation? It's a preferred method among the instructors I have taken classes from. YMMV. I didn't use my Kahr in competition it's a 9mm not a 40 S&W as I discussed. And yes, I occasionaly missed the slide stop release during competition adding a second or two to the reload using my STI or SV. It's a game, big deal. I have seen the top shooters do it at the National, Area and State matches I have competed in. I was hoping it was just due to the P9 being new, If that's the case then good. I don't own this gun but recommended it to my brother who bought it based upon shooting my K9. NAD |
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It is new as u stated and if u read most of all the comments, they all stated it just needs rounds down range to loosen up just alittle and then one can rack the slide with ease. Missing the slide stop release is shooter error, ,, the same as improperly racking a slide. training produces good results with both methods.
I wonder why alot of glocks even have the extended slide release on them, if they didn't intend too use them??? |
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I have a new PM9. I only have 106 rounds through it so far. The first 56 rounds were during a night qual for my department. The gun ran flawlessly. But my training and muscle memory resulted in my attempting the dry reload by doing the monkey paw on the slide. This caused the round to nose dive and I had to problem solve during the qual. After I got it home I have continued to rack the slide without a mag in the gun to get it to break in quicker. I have also been locking the slide to the rear on an empty gun and they using the slide release. I am hoping this helps the release to break in and loose so stiffness.
I will say that so far I am impressed with my PM9 and am beginning to trust it more and more as it stays reliable. Quality has improved since past models. All I can say is keep with it and break it in. |
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I shot a new out of the box P9 the other day and when racking the slide the first round of a loaded magazine would "nose dive" on the feed ramp. I would have to download the magazine a few rounds to chamber a round. I tried several different mags and different brands of ammo and all had the same problem. Is this typical for the polymer framed Kahrs? I have a early first generation K9 and never had this problem when it was new. NAD (1) My PM9 wouldn't run worth a darn even after 400 rounds of break-in. Lots of nose-dives on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd rounds of the mag (even brand new mags). After a great deal of polishing with a dremel (slide, locking block, barrel, slide rails, feed ramp, anything I could reach that has friction, it finally runs marginally well. This is my first experience with a pistol that doesn't run out of the box. (2) Using the slide release is absolutely not necessary. Is it more idiot-proof? Sure. The physics of releasing the slide from the rearward-most position are the same whether you're pushing the lever or letting it go. It is absolutely critical to not ride the slide at all, however. I accomplish this by ripping my hand to the rear, off the slide. If you just "let the slide go", you're really riding it for a little while as your grip starts to disengage. It takes an active movement to the rear while releasing the slide. (3) There is a pretty obvious design problem (perhaps a compromise to fix some other issue) that causes the nose-diving. I've contacted Kahr about it and gotten no reply. (Thanks for your $600, buh buy!) The mag follower shape allows rounds to rotate forward as the mag fills up and spring pressure increases. The top few rounds of a fully loaded mag are completely unsupported at the top. Here's my extended PM9 mag with 1,2,3,4,5,6, and 7 rounds loaded: 
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| I did some dry fire practice last night with my PM9. I noticed the slide release had gotten much easier to release the slide. When I chambered a Gold Dot and holstered it back up I used the sling shot method and it worked. As I pulled the slide back I ripped my hand backwards to illiminate any chance of me riding the slide. I decided I am going to keep trying to use the sling shot while at the range and see how reliable it works. |
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I did some dry fire practice last night with my PM9. I noticed the slide release had gotten much easier to release the slide. When I chambered a Gold Dot and holstered it back up I used the sling shot method and it worked. As I pulled the slide back I ripped my hand backwards to illiminate any chance of me riding the slide. I decided I am going to keep trying to use the sling shot while at the range and see how reliable it works. best to learn both ways. No one ever said u can't rack a kahr slide. It can be done easily once learns the right technique. Cupping the hand over the top of tghe slide will give u far better results for their is more strength in a cupped hand than a couple of fingers grabbing the back of the slide. but what ever works best for you, just stick with it. Many here are just posting "guides" to work off of YMMV. Good luck and just shoot it like u stole it.. |
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fixassist> if your still having issues with feeding reliability, call kahr, sometimes these emails get lost . You might have two bac magazines also. I doubt it ,but there is somethign that is not right. I see nothing worn giwht their design of the magazines, but you cold have some bad ones.
Some have brought up before about the top rounds not stayingin the magazine when carrying loosely in the pocket. This is true, so just carry the loaded spare magaze in a magazine pouch. Seems to be a cleaner metod of carry anyways and foru sure the rounds will stay put. Your techniques about racking are right on to. Once learned right itis a peace of cake.. I can say this my kahr P380 as smallas it is and as stout of recoil spring that it has using the slide lock lever is the best way to oad that first round. Just not a heh of alot of slide to grab onto IMO.. |
| I was taught the "monkey paw" technique-palm wrapped over the top of the slide. I have since quit using the slide pinch technique. It uses fine motor skills and the monkey paw technique is better. I try to make all of my movements and weapons manipulations the same across the board when possible. If the monkey paw technique continues to be reliable it will likely replace the use of the slide lock so long as both of my hands are useable. Although I only carry an extra mag for it when the PM9 is my primary. I dont carry a spare mag when it is carried as a BUG on duty. |
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I was taught the "monkey paw" technique-palm wrapped over the top of the slide. I have since quit using the slide pinch technique. It uses fine motor skills and the monkey paw technique is better. I try to make all of my movements and weapons manipulations the same across the board when possible. If the monkey paw technique continues to be reliable it will likely replace the use of the slide lock so long as both of my hands are useable. Although I only carry an extra mag for it when the PM9 is my primary. I dont carry a spare mag when it is carried as a BUG on duty. never heard it called the monkey paw,but ur right, itis better and it is faster also, expecially for tap,rack kand bang, one doesn'thave to lower the weapon hardly at all. |
| I had a P40 and a CW40. I got rid of both because they had various problems. I really wanted things to work out. They feel great and are easy to conceal, but I did not feel comfortable carrying them from a reliability stand point. I was going to look into the steel framed versions, I've heard good things about them, but then I decided not to buy one because I did not want to gamble on an $800 gun that may or may not work. There are other manufacturers that sell reliable pistols for less money that will almost always work. |
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It is new as u stated and if u read most of all the comments, they all stated it just needs rounds down range to loosen up just alittle and then one can rack the slide with ease. Missing the slide stop release is shooter error, ,, the same as improperly racking a slide. training produces good results with both methods. I wonder why alot of glocks even have the extended slide release on them, if they didn't intend too use them??? Training? Shooter error? $hit happens to the best trained shooters in the world. Especially under stress. A handgun I choose for self defense needs to run flawlessly because I am not flawless. I like Kahrs, but it seems this P9 needs a little TLC and several rounds down range to break it in before I would carry it. I hope that's all it needs. Thanks all for the comments. NAD |
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It is new as u stated and if u read most of all the comments, they all stated it just needs rounds down range to loosen up just alittle and then one can rack the slide with ease. Missing the slide stop release is shooter error, ,, the same as improperly racking a slide. training produces good results with both methods. I wonder why alot of glocks even have the extended slide release on them, if they didn't intend too use them??? Training? Shooter error? $hit happens to the best trained shooters in the world. Especially under stress. A handgun I choose for self defense needs to run flawlessly because I am not flawless. I like Kahrs, but it seems this P9 needs a little TLC and several rounds down range to break it in before I would carry it. I hope that's all it needs. Thanks all for the comments. NAD I feel that is all it needs, for to be honest, one just never hears any issues with the P9, they are just a good bigger well made kahr. that being said, if it ain't reliable for you, I would peddle it and get something that is. I won;t keep any gun that I don't trust, be it a kahr or Smith, or Ruger, but that doesn't mean I won't buy that companies products again either. I just know that indeed "shit" happens. |
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I knwo this isn't my thread and I keep updating, but I figured the OP would like the update with my PM9. I am only at about 200 to 250 rounds so far. 100% reliable so far as feeding and ejecting. My only problems have arisen when I attempted to loaded it by pulling the slide back. Today I shot 100 rds through it. I used the "monkey paw" technique every time. If I snapped the slide back quickly and let my hand rip of the back when the slide could go no further I got 100% reliable feeding. If I let it ride the slide forward a little I got an occasional hang-up. But all I had to do was yank the slide back and do it the right way and it would load.
Is this gun as good as any of my Glocks? Not yet in my opinion. But it seems to work better every time I take it out and shoot it. When and if this gun starts to function just as well as my Glocks then I will be supremely happy. |
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I knwo this isn't my thread and I keep updating, but I figured the OP would like the update with my PM9. I am only at about 200 to 250 rounds so far. 100% reliable so far as feeding and ejecting. My only problems have arisen when I attempted to loaded it by pulling the slide back. Today I shot 100 rds through it. I used the "monkey paw" technique every time. If I snapped the slide back quickly and let my hand rip of the back when the slide could go no further I got 100% reliable feeding. If I let it ride the slide forward a little I got an occasional hang-up. But all I had to do was yank the slide back and do it the right way and it would load. Is this gun as good as any of my Glocks? Not yet in my opinion. But it seems to work better every time I take it out and shoot it. When and if this gun starts to function just as well as my Glocks then I will be supremely happy. If u don't rack a glock proplery it will ftf also. I have doneit on my G19, although a bigger gun to work with to, so iv ethe pM9 some slack here. Indeed one can rack the PM9 slides allday lone with ease, once you get the hang of it. the Monkey paw thing is really the proper way to rack a slide anyway. You definitley have more strenght this way and the ability to fast rack is also there and , one can tap, rack and bang using the MK mp method without hardly bringing the gun down from line of sight. Try this jsut using two fingers and it is much harder to do and still keept he gun pointed in the proper direction. My PM9 works as good as my G19. neither have ever given me one issues. My K9 works just as good also. I love to shoot that gun, It really feels like a REAL gun to. Just to heavy and big for pocket carry.. |
| I am able to slowly ride the slide on my G 21 SF. I mean really slowly and intentionally trying to get a malfunction. It loads relaibely and fully goes into battery all the time. Not my normal loading method, but it will feed that way. Funny how all these guns are so different. I know people whose glocks will release the slide automatically every time a loaded mag is inserted. And I cannot force either of mine to do it. |
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I am able to slowly ride the slide on my G 21 SF. I mean really slowly and intentionally trying to get a malfunction. It loads relaibely and fully goes into battery all the time. Not my normal loading method, but it will feed that way. Funny how all these guns are so different. I know people whose glocks will release the slide automatically every time a loaded mag is inserted. And I cannot force either of mine to do it. My G19 will load that way if I slam the magazine in. I don't do it though,but it sure will My kahrsk, both of them will also do it.. |