Posted: 10/22/2004 8:43:03 AM EDT
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A couple of questions for all of you: Anyone ever feel outgunned by the hi-cap autoloaders out there? Why a revolver instead of an auto? Thx. |
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No way you are "outgunned" for the first five, six or, maybe today, seven rounds with the revolver. If, however the fight is still going on after that, things change. Jimmy Cirillo once said that his experience had been that if the fight was ended within the first two or three rounds, the best and most prepared shooter usually won, but if it was not ended quickly, "firepower" began to be more and more of an advantage. Cirillo usually carried at least two revolvers as well as a shotgun on stakeout assignments. Now, hopefully, we realize that a pistol does not have "firepower" as such, but if YOUR gun is empty and MY gun still shooting, you don't HAVE a gun...at least not until you can get it back into action again. Old time armed robbery stake out guys and felony fugitive cops, etc. often, if not usually, carried two or three revolvers when they went out plus a shotgun. Many also used a small "office gun" for being technically armed under low risk circumstances and carried a "Raid Bag" in the trunk with one or two bigger handguns...usually magnum revolvers... and extra ammo. The eight shot auto, while carrying only a couple of rounds more than the revolver, is much faster...and more importantly...less fumble-prone...to reload than the revolver, especially if equal amounts of time are devoted to training and practice (they are not the same thing). I have known quite a few officers who could...and some probably still can...reload a revolver faster than the average person can an autopistol, and do it in the dark, or the rain, or while in a contorted position behind cover, but very few people who carry a revolver are that good or will devote the time to trying to become that good. These guys all used speedloaders as well after they became generally available, but many who carry the revolver for CCW do not carry spare ammo loaded in speedloaders because they are so bulky. Many uniformed guys I have known carried three or four plus a backup snub. The auto, particularly the high capacity auto, CAN allow you to stay in the fight longer, if that is what you need to do. Maybe it will be and maybe it won't...crystal balls are scarce these days. Those who make loud noises about "If you can't solve it with six" blah, blah, blah, should maybe actually participate in a fight or two before they make derisive comments. Fact is, the more chances you have to hit the target, the better your odds for actually doing so. This may be accomplished in any of several ways, since after the first few shots, anyone with half sense will be moving or behind cover, and quite possibly both. High capacity autos are one method, but so is carrying at least two full reloads for a revolver with at least one in a speedloader, as is an 8 or 9 shot auto with spare mags handy. Second...and even third...guns are also a valid means of getting back in the fight quickly. I would never slam a guy who preferred a good revolver and knew how to use it...he is a very dangerous guy to fuck with...so long as he trains with it as he should. |
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Valid points - thanks guys. I've always preferred the feel of a Model 19 with Hogue grips over any autoloader. Also, there's something to be said about looking at the wrong end of a revolver and seeing those .357 HP's sitting there waiting to be let loose. I've gotten away from the revolver but am considering returning to it... |
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Don't forget- Moonclips really help you catch up. Much faster than speedloaders or loose ammo. Stovepipes, failures to extract, hard primers, limp wristing and doublefeeds can really slow an auto down. Want to see the groups a $400 auto will make compared to a $400 revolver ? The biggest drawback to being a wheelgunner right now is the ammo companies have directed all thier efforts to autoloader rounds. It used to be that the big cavities in revolver bullets were an advantage over the bullet profiles that would feed into autos. Right now I'd bet any of the .40, 9mm or .357 sig JHP bullets are just as good as the old 125 gr. .357mag. and the 10mm and .45 are probably better. The only exception I see right now is the new 135gr. speer gold dot in .38spl+p. They claim it expands to .50" and penetrates 12" out of a 2" snubbie.  Thats impressive without having to go to a .357mag and deal with the shock and awe the go along with it.
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Two different worlds. The HI cap autos play a great role is shooting games where there are a lot of targets (still have to hit the target). The wheel guns offer greater power when you just need to stop something with a single shot. To give you idea of this, In Limited I run a 40 with 21 rounds in the mags (MPF of 177). This is a great combo for punching holes in targets. Now when I'm hutting in grizzly country, NO way in hell would I use the 40 for back up. Instead I use a 44 Mag wheel gun loaded to the firewall. At best when being charged, you’re going to get three shots max before he is on you. In the real world, you use enough gun. The question just comes down to what you able to shoot, and how many bullets from it are going to be needed to put down the intended target. The best auto loader that every came out was the 10MM for auto loading stopping power (factory working pressure), but the problem was that few could handle the recoil. So, first is was light loaded to tame the recoil, then S&W figured that since the light loaded bullet/case really didn't need that much volume, it could be shortened to the 9mm platform length, and hence the 40 S&W was born (yet still too much power for a lot of shooter to still handle, and us target shooters pushing the pressure limits back up to the 10mm limits by long loading to increase the case volume). Bottom line is to shoot what you can handle (ability to hit the target). If you can't hit the target, all the bullets in the world (mag) still aren’t going to matter. |
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My duty weapon is now a HK in .40S&W. In a combat situation, I can indeed put more rounds on the bad buys than I could with my old wheel gun. Still, I love my old wheel gun. It served me well and I still have it by the bed. Most handgun engagements don't involve 30 rounds. Most only have a couple or three. Two to the body, one to the head, and disengage. My point is that it is way more important to put rounds on target quickly and in the center of mass rather than the next 25 rounds that follow. A wheel guns always works for the first 6 shots. No feed problems to even consider. No dummy rounds to practice. No jam malfunction drills. Just shoot, cover and reload, shoot. Anyone that isn't on the range once a month should consider the wheel gun over the auto. It works when you need it, even without enough practice. If you're an LEO on the range, you want an auto. If you hit the range once every three months, I'd go with the wheel gun. |