Posted: 8/1/2002 12:31:47 PM EDT
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Okay, we've all heard the stories. What I want to know is what experiences you've had: 1. Personally had a KB 2. Know someone who had one and I personally saw the weapon 3. Know someone who had one, but I didn't see the weapon. 4. Know someone who knows someone....... 5. Read about them on the internet 6. What the heck is a KaBoom? I spend some time on a few other gun sites and have discovered that Glocks have a worse reputation than I suspected for this. My opinion is that the same pictures and stories get rehashed over and over, resulting in the appearence of a much larger problem than really exists. Maybe I'm wrong, however, so I thought I'd ask. Personally, I'm a category 5 Thanks for your time. Forgive me if this survey has already been done. Edited to add poll (can only do 5 options on poll, however) |
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I think it is because so much of the cartridge sticks out of the chamber and early .40 ammo had a reputation for having brass walls that were too thin. The combination of this is the reason we hear about all the KB's. Another reason you hear more about Glocks is they are very popular. |
| My G22 is a '90 model of which its twin KBed a long time ago, not knowing what the factors were, I must discount it. I saw more guns blown up by "gunshow reloads" of any make...of which the S&W 645 stayed together the best, FYI. Now if I may ask, any aftermarket bbls. known to ever let loose in a Glock? |
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I have been shooting IPSC since 1987 and just about everybody shoots relaods. The two main guns shooting are the 1911's and the Glock 40's. The 1911's have been around since the begining and are still the most popular. In all that time I have only seen one blow-up and it was on a course I was running. The gun was a Glock M22C (ported). The owner is a rocket scientist, no joke. He loads on a Dillon 650 and that gun blew the entire top off the barrel, blew most of the trigger out and bent the top of the slide around the port up a bit. We checked all his remaining rounds for loose crimps, all were tight. I don't remember his load but he said it was almost a compacted load so it could not have been a double charge. If he had double charged, there would have been powder everywhere on the Dillon. We all came to the conclusion that it fired out of battery. He sent it to Glock where they sold him the parts to repair it at a slight discount. Glock called it something like a "flash charge" or something, I really don't remember. I carry a Glock 19 in my car, so I have no ax to gring, but I don't think it was his reloads. Bill |
| I saw one at a local IPSC match. A G23 IIRC. It blew the extractor out and forced the magazine out of the bottom. They guy who was shooting was shooting reloads. The cause was determined to be a double charge. It wasn't Glock's fault. I don't think they ever found the extractor (it was an inside range). |
I personally had a case head separation in my 27. Locked the action up good, but no damage, just a little sandblasting  of the finish right at the top of the mag. Served me right, as I was ignoring a stated limitation of the weapon and was shooting some cheap remanufactured ammo with the stock barrel. I switched to a Jarvis barrel with a tighter, fully supported chamber, then switched back to the stock barrel when I found S&B was even cheaper (and way better!)Recently we had a guy at the range who had a real KB, but again is was an ammo induced problem. He was shooting his own reloads and one round was just a little bit wrong (can't remember the specific failure mode). Would have hurt just about any make of weapon. |
| The ONLY reason Glocks KB! is because they're fed lousy ammo! I've personally owned over 20 Glocks, and not one of them have ever had an issue. I did have a co-worker who had a KB! with a Glock 17 after he fired 9 boxes of 9mm LEAD RELOADS, without cleaning the barrel. That in itself should tell you the problem... |
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If most of us here think it is almost always the ammo's fault, then what other pistols have you guys seen go KaBoom? I have heard from a reliable source (I know, it's second hand info) who regularly shoots with a Police Department on the Mississippi Gulf Coast, that the dept. has had around ten 45 ACP Glocks KaBoom with high quality premium ammo. Not reloads, dept issue ammo. He has seen the pistols and I have know reason to not believe him. Hell, he sells Glocks at his store. They have had issues with Glock, I don't remember what they carry now. Bill (I have a Glock 19 in my Truck) |
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There are several accepted reasons for Glocks kabooming. Lead reloads is one, overcharged/poorly made reloads are another, and firing out of battery has also been documented on worn or poorly maintained pistols. All of them can be prevented. The first two by shooting factory loads, and the last one by keeping the gun clean so that it functions properly. I haven't heard of a kaboom yet that couldn't be attributed to any of those. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... |
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I've seen two Glock KBs. First one was a Glock 19 with factory FMJs. The guy was shooting in the lane to my left when something whizzed by me from left to right. After I finished my string, the guy says, "Hey, buddy, you seen my extractor fly by you?" No other apparent damage, but I didn't get a close look. We did not find the extractor. Second one was a co-worker at our annual police qualification this past March. Witnessed by at least 35 officers. Weapon was a Glock 22 and it went KaBoom! Ammo was remanufactured .40 S&W 180 JHP by Mastercast. Case head separation caused the extractor to launch to the right and most of the slide stop to go left. The remaining case body was wedged tight in the chamber with a small protruding jagged triangle of brass wrapped around the left side of the feed ramp. The frame looked like it had some internal damage once we got it stripped. Slide looked okay. Officer had a big black powder burn on the web of his strong hand and complained of a stinging sensation. We recovered the case head, but not the extractor or slide stop. No disposition on this one - our department policy is personally-owned and Chief-approved firearms, so he bought a Smith 4006 to replace his Glock. The Glock sits field stripped in a drawer somewhere. Our qualification is done at a PA State Police Barracks and the rangemasters are all Troopers. The Chief Rangemaster had a lot of bad things to say about Glocks after this incident and he qualifies alot of departments annually. PSP Troopers carry Beretta 96Ds, so his complaint wasn't with the .40 ammo, although I suspect the remanufacturing process might have allowed a weak case through Quality Control. The Trooper could not qualify the guy, since he DNF'd the course of fire with his duty weapon. He had to go back with his new Smith 4006 and qualify again. I think he used Federal ammo this time. |
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So, I'll ask this again, "What other pistols have we seen or known about to go KaBoom!" I'm sure most rounds through the 1911 are reloads. In the past 15 years I doubt I have shot 2 boxes of factory ammo through my 1911's. There are a lot of Berettas and Smiths in police depts around the country. If it is "just the bullits/reloads then there should be the same per capita amount of other makes blowing up. Bill with a Glock 19 |
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The rifling is much different between Glock, H+K USP's, and all the "others" with conventional rifling. Glock and H+K use much lower profile rifling. Which allows for a better gas seal, and higher velocities. They also leave fewer marks on fired bullets making ballistic comparisions between the fired bullet and the weapon that fired it much more difficult. As a consequence there is very little area for lead to build up in a Glock barrel before it starts interfering with the bullet going down the barrel. As to the G-22, .40 S+W is very, very, very, very, sensitive to the bullet seating in the brass. If the bullet is setback just a bit to far, the pressures increase wildly. All calibers will do that, but .40 S+W is almost always loaded close to what that caliber/case can handle. Any deviation can cause real problems. |
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I have some question as to whether the rifling has much to do with Kb!'s. There are quite a few rifles that have micro-grouved rifling and that shoot far hotter rounds than the 40S&W, yet I've never heard of a Kb! problem with any of them. Also, reloading is far more common among rifle users than in pistol users, or at the very least, as common. There are a lot of GLOCKs out there and so many attribute the Kb! issue to simple numbers. But there are more S&W autos out there than even GLOCKs, but no known Kb!s with them. I know of one case where a SiG Kb! was reported over in SiG forum, but the person who claimed to have had the Kb! never posted pictures of the pistol, never reported what SiG said about the pistol or if they replaced it, so I have some question if it was a real incident of simply spam. I do belive that the 40S&W is not a good choice for reloading simply because there is so small a margin for error in the cartridge. Any mistake, any slipup during loading, any problems with the pistol, can lead to overpressure. The 40S&W is simply, unforgiving. It's also relatively expensive and so many people look at reloading as a necessity. i know of several people who bought their first reloader to reload 40S&W. That certainly isn't the best cartridge to learn on. My personal belief is that GLOCK does have a problem with their pistols in larger than 9mm. I imagine that it is a combination of factors and not simply just one thing. IMHO, the problem is that any overcharge regardless of the caliber when combined with GLOCKs chamber design and a slightly dirt barrel is sufficient to cause the Kb!. But I also believe that there is some other yet unknown factor, perhaps in the metelurgy of their barrel, perhaps something else, that is the final weak link. I wish that GLOCK would undertake and publish a study of all the Kb!s known. It would be reassuring to all of the owners out ther whether they own a GLOCK or not. |
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When other brands KB it's an embarrassing secret. When a Glock goes boom it's a national event. I smell a PR firm in some of the KB stories I've heard. When my friends and I go shooting and I let them try my G30 they act like it's going to blow up just by touching it. I have to talk them down a bit. After they shoot it they all want one for themselves. Very, very accurate right out of the box. I predict if this KB crap continues Congress will pass an anti Glock law. Who would like to see that? Sig, Smith... etc. |
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Just like the media sensationalizes events such as school shootings, I think our networking on the internet has had the same effect on the Glock reputation. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if concealed carry was finally passed in Ohio. I've also heard the same thing about certain kinds of ammo and Ar-15's. We've all heard the stories, but few if any of us will ever experience the reality of KaBoom. Besides, no offense to anyone who has had it happen to them, but for all I know they think cleaning a piece is simply swabbing the barrel. In the end, I'll just keep on my shooting glasses and keep pulling the trigger with confidence. |
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I use GLocks exclusively and have had zero problems but I don't shoot reloads in my pistols. Almost without fail, when a Glock KBs there were leads reloads involved or spotty ammo. On another note: I shot a pistol match last week and saw a 1911 hold together with a nasty case failure. The shooter took case fragments in the face but kept on shooting. Case totally failed just above the web. I wondered if a Glock would have withstood that. |
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Well, my first GLOCK I bought was a model 20 (10mm) in 1992. At the time I bought it, I also bought reloading dies for it (so I have only shot 1000 or so rounds of factory fresh ammo through it in its lifetime). My loads were not on the weak side of 1100 fps + 180 JHP. I have probably loaded 20,000 rounds for it. Before I knew better, I would just keep reusing the cases over and over again until they developed a large bulge toward the case head which the resizing die would TRY to reshape but did not go down far enough to get the whole bulge. The cases looked like a belted magnum 10mm when I was done. In all that time I NEVER experienced ANY case ruptures of abnormalities (except for the "belted magnum" look). BTW, now I have 4 GLOCKS (20,21,23,27) and have no qualms about using MY OWN reloads in them. Just wanted to share this info. |
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This last weekend, there was a Glock 30 that had it's mag, trigger, mag release button, and other assorted bits blown out. I was at Chuck Taylor's Tactical Pistol class at HALO and this happened the second day after we'd already shot a few hundred rounds. The fellow was shooting reloads, one of which I found on the ground once without a primer. He had a couple of fingers that were sore and bruised but otherwise okay. He finished the weekend with another Glock. I happened to be shooting my Glock 30 with factory ammo. No problems. I have shot some reloads and bare-lead rounds, but that was before I heard that I shouldn't. |
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Oh you thought the KB reports were bad? www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=74&t=140610
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One in 450,000 rounds fired. That would be a wild success rate for most other brands. |
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www.greent.com/40Page/index2.htm Edited to make link active -1GUNRUNNER |
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some foor for thought here. what is the difference between a glock 22 and a glock 17??? besides a HELL of a lot more chamber pressure? the thickness of the bbl. a thin barrel, combined with shallow rifling, combined with a pistol that people don't think they need to clean, combined with the popularity of the .40 what else would you expect? BTW, i have a glock 19 and a 22 and wouldn't trade both for anything. |
Don't all the Glocks other than the 9mm's have an extra support pin for the locking block in the frame?? |
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I now shoot a Glock M23. I used to shoot 1911's but they require too much gunsmithing to be anything close to reliable. My stock Series 80 Colt would 'double' (shoot two rounds) once in a while. I threw money on it and it was fixed, but still had stove-pipe jams every 100 rounds or less. Being caught up in the 1911 haze (as most all Americans have been or still are), I spent a bunch more money on it and had a top quality barrel, good adjustable sights, raised beavertail, etc, etc. When completed it was superbly accurate, but still unreliable. But as I faithfully read Jeff Cooper's stories, I tollerated it, but when the shit hit the fan I would grab a bone stock S&W revolver every time. One dark day the Colt 1911 got stolen. I was heartbroken and more than a little pissed! When the insurance money came I waited a long time then bought a Glock. Best move I ever made. Paid $400 (back then) and it is absolutely reliable. After years of shooting it I am plenty acurate wit it now too. Glock Ka-Boom? The only time I hear this itis being said by someone with a 1911 on their hip and they didn't see it either. Anything can break. Ten 1911's break for every Glock that fails, I will put money on that! |
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I have owned 9mm, .40, & .45 Glocks. I currently have a G17, G21, & G27 and I know a lot of Glock owners, including the entire Police Dept. in my area that carry G19 and G17 pistols. Not once have I ever seen a Glock blow up in my experience, nor have I personally heard of any Glocks blowing up, other than those mentioned on the internet. Actually, I have only ever observed one handgun blown up, and that was a .357 Sig P229. The barrel had exploded and split both the chamber and the barrel wide open inside of the slide. The gun could not even be taken apart. Never did find out if it was an ammo or barrel related problem. |
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Glock 19C have had it for almost 9 months. Have only shot new ammo so far, but am starting to reload. Now I have well over 50,000 rounds and never any problem. Just replaced my recoil spring and the spring loaded bearing. I lost that when detail cleaning. The people I see at IDPA and IPSC who have had trouble were from reloads. I have found out that the best thing to do for matches is load undercharge. This way you don't get the heavy recoil and get back on target faster. Also it will keep them KB's from most likely going to happen |
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The KbM I saw was in an older 17. The reserve officer was in practicing w/ it and it blew. Not bad, most of the damage was frame and mag. The slide and barrel were still okay. He was shooting those reloads that police use (at least in our area), they come in an ORANGE box. If I recall, the ammo was at fault. |