Posted: 2/17/2021 2:19:52 PM EDT
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I am making the move to a pistol mounted RDS. I would like to zero it for use with defensive ammunition. I have discovered that Winchester Training and Defense offers 147 grain bullets designed so that the more expensive JHP Defense rounds have the same ballistic performance (launching, flight, and point of impact performance not terminal performance) as the FMJ training rounds. Are there other manufacturers who offer similar options? What are the factors to consider when seeking an acceptable training round in order to get it to most closely match that of a Defensive round? I know the ideal would be to practice with the defensive ammunition, but the cost of defensive ammunition prohibits me from doing so. Thanks for your help. |
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You know I was pulled into SIGs 356 ammo some time ago as they claimed their FMJ training ammo ballistically matched the JHP so your training accuracy would be the same as your defensive accuracy (presuming you could shoot as well under real stress). Seems logical. I have found that for defensive training, a 147, 124 and 115 are all pretty much the same for on target accuracy within 10 yards. The logic is good but I think it is academic as focus and gun control are going to make much, much more difference in defensive training accuracy than the bullet weight or frankly the velocity. Pick your carry ammo for application, use whatever for training. We are not splitting MOA hairs with defensive hand guns. Took me a little while to accept this conclusion. YMMV I'd like your and everyone else's thoughts as these are just my own. |
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Quoted: You know I was pulled into SIGs 356 ammo some time ago as they claimed their FMJ training ammo ballistically matched the JHP so your training accuracy would be the same as your defensive accuracy (presuming you could shoot as well under real stress). Seems logical. I have found that for defensive training, a 147, 124 and 115 are all pretty much the same for on target accuracy within 10 yards. The logic is good but I think it is academic as focus and gun control are going to make much, much more difference in defensive training accuracy than the bullet weight or frankly the velocity. Pick your carry ammo for application, use whatever for training. We are not splitting MOA hairs with defensive hand guns. Took me a little while to accept this conclusion. YMMV I'd like your and everyone else's thoughts as these are just my own. Agree. At distances inside 25 yards the difference in poi/poa in 115/124/147 ammo is so close for training purposes it doesn’t matter |
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Quoted: Agree. At distances inside 25 yards the difference in poi/poa in 115/124/147 ammo is so close for training purposes it doesn’t matter Quoted: Quoted: You know I was pulled into SIGs 356 ammo some time ago as they claimed their FMJ training ammo ballistically matched the JHP so your training accuracy would be the same as your defensive accuracy (presuming you could shoot as well under real stress). Seems logical. I have found that for defensive training, a 147, 124 and 115 are all pretty much the same for on target accuracy within 10 yards. The logic is good but I think it is academic as focus and gun control are going to make much, much more difference in defensive training accuracy than the bullet weight or frankly the velocity. Pick your carry ammo for application, use whatever for training. We are not splitting MOA hairs with defensive hand guns. Took me a little while to accept this conclusion. YMMV I'd like your and everyone else's thoughts as these are just my own. Agree. At distances inside 25 yards the difference in poi/poa in 115/124/147 ammo is so close for training purposes it doesn’t matter Yup |
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Agree with all the above. There are a dozen of factors that are going to play much more into the equation than the ammo. 98% is going to be the end user, 1% platform and 1% ammo. Things that may be included in end user: Training Practice Fitness/conditioning General health State of mind Level of hydration Awareness Preparation Injury Rest The list goes on and on, with ammo selection at the bottom. Okay, lube choice may be the bottom. But you get the point. |
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Quoted: Which imo is a gimmick. Quoted: Quoted: Isn't the point of speer lawmen ammo supposed to be that its trajectory, etc, are the same as their gold dots? Which imo is a gimmick. Interesting, what makes you say its a gimmick? Ive never actually compared the Lawmen to Gold dots, just genuinely curious. |
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Quoted: Interesting, what makes you say its a gimmick? Ive never actually compared the Lawmen to Gold dots, just genuinely curious. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Isn't the point of speer lawmen ammo supposed to be that its trajectory, etc, are the same as their gold dots? Which imo is a gimmick. Interesting, what makes you say its a gimmick? Ive never actually compared the Lawmen to Gold dots, just genuinely curious. Because the usefulness of ammo that is identical to carry ammo isn't really that big of a deal to me. 115gr steel cased wolf shooting 4" lower at 25 yards than my 147gr gold dots is not something Im concerned about. Lawman ammo is good ammo, but I wont pay extra for a fmj practice round because of similar recoil or poi(which is more dependent on the gun than the ammo) |
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