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AR15.COM
11/26/2013 4:54:46 AM EDT
Hey, I just bought a S&W 442 with the intention of it being a gun I could keep in the car and for pocket carry when I cannot carry my G23 or just want something to slip in my pocket. The gun is primarily for the car, how should I go about securing it? I have a locking glove box to help prevent theft, but if I needed it I could not get to it fast. The same issue goes for locking the revolver in a "car safe." Does anyone know of a way to secure a firearm in the car while still maintaining quick access? I would also like it to be inexpensive. Thanks.
11/26/2013 5:21:49 AM EDT
[#1]
What's wrong with using a holster clipped to the seat belt for when you're in the car, and a regular slow-access lock box for when you're not?

I really don't understand why you want it locked up when you're driving.
11/26/2013 5:24:54 AM EDT
[#2]
When I'm pocket carrying my 442, I take the gun and holster out of my pocket and wedge them between the driver's seat and the console.  Quick access, but mostly out of sight to anyone looking in through the window.
11/26/2013 5:25:43 AM EDT
[#3]
Because I would have to keep taking the gun out and would like to keep it concealed as much as possible so as to not draw attention (I drive a mustang so I have no ground clearance to hide the view inside the car).
11/26/2013 5:26:42 AM EDT
[#4]
The 442 will primarily be a car gun and occasional pocket carry.
11/26/2013 7:27:35 AM EDT
[#5]
You could have a hidden compartment of some kind put in your vehicle. Car customization place would be able to hook you up. Do mustangs have a center console? If so could do a false bottom in there.
11/26/2013 7:27:39 AM EDT
[#6]
I have a 2008 Toyota 4Runner. When I feel the need to keep the pistol locked up, I put it in the locking glovebox. Otherwise, it lives in a holster mount that sits out-of-sight in the drivers utility compartment, yet is as readily accessible as a holster on my belt. Here is how I made it, step-by-step:

1) Here is the utility compartment in my 4Runner:



2) In the bottom of the compartment, under the cloth liner, are the mounting bolts for the center console. One of these will be removed and a longer replacement bolt will be used to retain the holster mount:



3) I fabricated the holster mount from suitably stiff sheet metal. I used 16ga mild steel, which I happened to have laying around, and which is workable yet stiff enough to hold its shape. You can find a shape that fits your vehicle's utility compartment by making a cardboard model to test fit and use as a template for cutting the sheet metal. Here is the holster mount, in the white:



4) After fabricating the metal holster mount, and test fitting it, I finished it with black Rustoleum paint. The photo below shows the finished metal holster mount, and the other components of my system; a cheap nylon holster, a replacement bolt, and a couple of zip ties:



5) Now we put it all together. First, I used the zip ties to secure the nylon holster to the holster mount:





6) Next I applied carpet tape (to the holster mount) and LocTite (to the bolt) to enhance attachment of my contraption to the vehicle:



7) Lastly, I bolted the holster mount into the utility compartment, and then replaced the compartment liner:



... and here is the finished product:








Note how the mounted holster is big enough to accept my Kahr MK40 pistol complete with its Uncle Mikes pocket holster, yet the pistol draws quickly and smoothly when needed. If I want to carry the pistol, grabbing the pocket holster allows the pistol and pocket holster to come out easily as a unit. With the pistol and pocket holster removed, the mounted holster is also a perfect fit for my other CCW pistol - a Glock 27. There is also a slot for a spare magazine on the particular holster I chose.

All in all, I'm pretty happy with how this worked out. I hope you find it helpful.
11/26/2013 7:28:28 AM EDT
[#7]
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You could have a hidden compartment of some kind put in your vehicle. Car customization place would be able to hook you up. Do mustangs have a center console? If so could do a false bottom in there.
View Quote


Hidden vehicle compartments often fall afoul of Federal and State laws - be very careful dabbling in this area.
11/26/2013 6:43:06 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:


Hidden vehicle compartments often fall afoul of Federal and State laws - be very careful dabbling in this area.
View Quote View All Quotes
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You could have a hidden compartment of some kind put in your vehicle. Car customization place would be able to hook you up. Do mustangs have a center console? If so could do a false bottom in there.


Hidden vehicle compartments often fall afoul of Federal and State laws - be very careful dabbling in this area.


How so?  Seriously asking the question for my information.
11/26/2013 8:50:39 PM EDT
[#9]
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How so?  Seriously asking the question for my information.
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You could have a hidden compartment of some kind put in your vehicle. Car customization place would be able to hook you up. Do mustangs have a center console? If so could do a false bottom in there.


Hidden vehicle compartments often fall afoul of Federal and State laws - be very careful dabbling in this area.


How so?  Seriously asking the question for my information.


State law example: http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/21/driver-arrested-in-ohio-for-secret-car-c

Federal law example: http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/October-2010/investigating-and-prosecuting-hidden-compartment-cases
11/27/2013 12:29:46 AM EDT
[#10]
Not super fast access, but affordable and adaptable: http://pacsafe.com/travelsafe-100-portable-safe
11/27/2013 8:48:03 PM EDT
[#11]
These are not cheap. If I understand you.
You want to leave the gun in the car.
If that is so. You may want to look at                                                                                                                                                Console Vault
If I missed what you where looking for sorry!


PITA45
11/27/2013 11:55:34 PM EDT
[#12]
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You could have a hidden compartment of some kind put in your vehicle. Car customization place would be able to hook you up. Do mustangs have a center console? If so could do a false bottom in there.


Hidden vehicle compartments often fall afoul of Federal and State laws - be very careful dabbling in this area.


How so?  Seriously asking the question for my information.


State law example: http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/21/driver-arrested-in-ohio-for-secret-car-c

Federal law example: http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/October-2010/investigating-and-prosecuting-hidden-compartment-cases


Guess one would need to know their state law then.  Seems federal would be a strecth if a trap was built for a firearm.
11/28/2013 6:31:15 AM EDT
[#13]
Just took a law course as part of the Illinois carry requirements and that question came up.  The instructor stated that once you create a hidden compartment it opens the door for the DEA to inspect and search the vehicle if they choose.


If you use the holster in the console setup as shown above, remove the magazine  and keep in the pouch you no longer are carring concealed, it is considered transporting the firearm and the laws are more flexible for transporting than for carrying.
11/28/2013 8:05:13 PM EDT
[#14]
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Because I would have to keep taking the gun out and would like to keep it concealed as much as possible so as to not draw attention (I drive a mustang so I have no ground clearance to hide the view inside the car).
View Quote

Dude nobody pays that much attention to people in other cars EXCEPT maybe cops and you have to tell a cop if you are carrying anyway.  

Now, obviously I wouldn't go waving a gun around while at an intersection with cars on both sides of you but if your just parking and about to walk into costco or something, nobody is going to care enough to look.  Just exercise discretion and you will be fine.  Everytime I go to the post office I look around for a sec just to double check and then put my gun under the seat or in the glove compartment...etc.  


I do recommend you park in well lit areas with high visibility whenever possible    



We all had that 'omg what if people see' period when we started carrying
11/29/2013 6:09:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote History
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Guess one would need to know their state law then.  Seems federal would be a strecth if a trap was built for a firearm.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quote History
Quoted:
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Quoted:
You could have a hidden compartment of some kind put in your vehicle. Car customization place would be able to hook you up. Do mustangs have a center console? If so could do a false bottom in there.


Hidden vehicle compartments often fall afoul of Federal and State laws - be very careful dabbling in this area.


How so?  Seriously asking the question for my information.


State law example: http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/21/driver-arrested-in-ohio-for-secret-car-c

Federal law example: http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/October-2010/investigating-and-prosecuting-hidden-compartment-cases


Guess one would need to know their state law then.  Seems federal would be a strecth if a trap was built for a firearm.
The intent to conceal and carry prohibited/controlled substances (drugs) is a key element in this particular crime at state or federal levels.  Absent drugs in the car, a large amount of cash in the car, or a history of prior drug arrests, demonstrating that intent is basically impossible.

But that does not mean you might not end up being arrested anyway by an officer choosing to not use proper judgment or discretion - under the excuse that it's something for the prosecutor's office to sort out.   That's basically just an excuse for making your life hard because he can, and that's often prompted by your attitude during a stop, or other suspicions the officer may have that prompt him to want to hold you while a more in depth back ground check can be run.

-----

The reality here is however that in a state where you are required to communicate to the officer that you have a concealed carry permit and that you are or are not carrying, you're in a position of having to point out that you are carrying a concealed weapon and that can lead to the question of where the weapon is at.  Showing the officer your nifty quick draw modified console can give the officer some pause and may effect how he chooses to proceed with the stop.

For a person who is just carrying the pistol in their normal carry location it's no big deal.  Similarly, for the person who just put the pistol and holster in a console because it's a pain to sit on (you can leave out the "hard to draw from under the seat belt" issue entirely as it's TMI) having it in the console is pretty normal and non-suspicious behavior.   However having a holster mounted in the console or in a secret compartment may be regarded as a little over the edge and may draw additional scrutiny from the officer.

In my experience as a former LEO, my position was that if it's on your hip I would advise something to the effect that "if you leave your pistol in your holster, I'll leave my pistol in my holster and we'll both stay happy".   Most officers who encounter concealed carry frequently are probably going to do something similar as it then ends up being a very safe and trouble free way to handle the stop.   After all, if you have a valid CCW permit, don't look like a dirt bag and are appropriately respectful, the officer probably isn't going to insist on confiscating your weapon during the stop.  

Confiscating a weapon during a stop involves a whole new set of risks and safety issues an officer would normally rather avoid (if they are smart as opposed to control freaky).  But you may encounter officers who fall in that category - particularly younger/newer officers, officers who like extra drama, and officers who seldom encounter persons with concealed carry permits.  

It also varies by department.  Sheriff department personnel tend to be the most understanding and encouraging of concealed carry as they deal with large territories and understand they will never arrive in time to save anyone or prevent any crime from occurring.   The Sheriff is also an elected official and making voters grumpy over an issue like this is (literally) self defeating.  Police departments are where the problem can occur as police chiefs are often non career service protected political appointees who have to parrot the party line of the elected official who appointed them, and that can trifle down to department policies that are both stupid and border line harassing.    That in a nut shell is why who keep seeing news reports about Sheriffs indicating they will not enforce gun control laws, while you see a large number of police chiefs speaking out in support of gun control legislation and policies (even when they don't personally believe the crap they have to say).

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I use a 3 digit combination safe that fits under the seat and can be cable locked to the seat frame.   If I am going into a location where concealed carry is not legal, it secures the gun well enough to prevent it being stolen in a smash and grab break in.  And, keeping it out of sight under the passenger seat means your car does not get targeted for a break in in the first place.   The cable is also long enough that I can reach it under the passenger seat, put the gun in it on the seat and tuck it back under the seat.   It's quick and easy, taking only a few seconds to store and retrieve, yet a lot more secure than just putting it under the seat.

And in pass through states where carry is not legal, I can unload the weapon and lock it in the safe with the safe cable locked to a tie down ring in the rear of my SUV with the ammo stored separate from the pistol.   With it locked in a hard case, unloaded and well out of reach, it meets the federal criteria to transport through states that do not allow concealed carry.    

Nano Vault 300
11/30/2013 5:26:11 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote History
Quoted:

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The reality here is however that in a state where you are required to communicate to the officer that you have a concealed carry permit and that you are or are not carrying, you're in a position of having to point out that you are carrying a concealed weapon and that can lead to the question of where the weapon is at.  Showing the officer your nifty quick draw modified console can give the officer some pause and may effect how he chooses to proceed with the stop.

For a person who is just carrying the pistol in their normal carry location it's no big deal.  Similarly, for the person who just put the pistol and holster in a console because it's a pain to sit on (you can leave out the "hard to draw from under the seat belt" issue entirely as it's TMI) having it in the console is pretty normal and non-suspicious behavior.   However having a holster mounted in the console or in a secret compartment may be regarded as a little over the edge and may draw additional scrutiny from the officer.

In my experience as a former LEO, my position was that if it's on your hip I would advise something to the effect that "if you leave your pistol in your holster, I'll leave my pistol in my holster and we'll both stay happy".   Most officers who encounter concealed carry frequently are probably going to do something similar as it then ends up being a very safe and trouble free way to handle the stop.   After all, if you have a valid CCW permit, don't look like a dirt bag and are appropriately respectful, the officer probably isn't going to insist on confiscating your weapon during the stop.  

Confiscating a weapon during a stop involves a whole new set of risks and safety issues an officer would normally rather avoid (if they are smart as opposed to control freaky).  But you may encounter officers who fall in that category - particularly younger/newer officers, officers who like extra drama, and officers who seldom encounter persons with concealed carry permits.  

It also varies by department.  Sheriff department personnel tend to be the most understanding and encouraging of concealed carry as they deal with large territories and understand they will never arrive in time to save anyone or prevent any crime from occurring.   The Sheriff is also an elected official and making voters grumpy over an issue like this is (literally) self defeating.  Police departments are where the problem can occur as police chiefs are often non career service protected political appointees who have to parrot the party line of the elected official who appointed them, and that can trifle down to department policies that are both stupid and border line harassing.    That in a nut shell is why who keep seeing news reports about Sheriffs indicating they will not enforce gun control laws, while you see a large number of police chiefs speaking out in support of gun control legislation and policies (even when they don't personally believe the crap they have to say).

-----

I use a 3 digit combination safe that fits under the seat and can be cable locked to the seat frame.   If I am going into a location where concealed carry is not legal, it secures the gun well enough to prevent it being stolen in a smash and grab break in.  And, keeping it out of sight under the passenger seat means your car does not get targeted for a break in in the first place.   The cable is also long enough that I can reach it under the passenger seat, put the gun in it on the seat and tuck it back under the seat.   It's quick and easy, taking only a few seconds to store and retrieve, yet a lot more secure than just putting it under the seat.

And in pass through states where carry is not legal, I can unload the weapon and lock it in the safe with the safe cable locked to a tie down ring in the rear of my SUV with the ammo stored separate from the pistol.   With it locked in a hard case, unloaded and well out of reach, it meets the federal criteria to transport through states that do not allow concealed carry.    

Nano Vault 300
View Quote


That's the right answer and I would add a few folks are "arrested" because the agency knows it screwed up and will arrest so they can negotiate to get you to promise not to sue their ass off if they drop those trumped up charges

I use a similar safe in both my cars attached to my spare tire... So if you ever see someone dribbling a spare tire down the sidewalk, please notify the police
12/12/2013 4:44:27 PM EDT
[#17]
I bought a StackOn Mini Travel safe from Dick's for about $60. It has a cable lock, with a 3 button electronic keypad. It sits in my glovebox. I ended up buying a second cable lock, and both are secured behind the glovebox to part of the car frame near the steering column. I have a 3rd cable that I keep as a spare for when I travel i.e. I can take it into a hotel room and secure it etc. Between the safe/cables & locking the glove box it's fairly secure against a smash and grab. I carry when I drive, so this is mainly for places where I can't carry. I know it works fine for it's purpose, cause my car got broken into about 6 months ago, and I woke up to see the safe hanging out of my driver's side window. At the time I hadn't locked the glove box. No gun inside anyways as I won't leave a gun in my car overnight. Since then, I always lock the glovebox and added the 2nd cable.
12/18/2013 8:57:42 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because I would have to keep taking the gun out and would like to keep it concealed as much as possible so as to not draw attention (I drive a mustang so I have no ground clearance to hide the view inside the car).
View Quote

Dude nobody pays that much attention to people in other cars EXCEPT maybe cops and you have to tell a cop if you are carrying anyway.  

Now, obviously I wouldn't go waving a gun around while at an intersection with cars on both sides of you but if your just parking and about to walk into costco or something, nobody is going to care enough to look.  Just exercise discretion and you will be fine.  Everytime I go to the post office I look around for a sec just to double check and then put my gun under the seat or in the glove compartment...etc.  


I do recommend you park in well lit areas with high visibility whenever possible    



We all had that 'omg what if people see' period when we started carrying
View Quote

Notification laws vary from State to State. The OP is in GA, and is not required to notify if carrying. Not all cops are happy about armed citizens, and some take their dislike of it to extremes. A few good example of their abuse can be seen on YouTube, and may show good cause not to notify unless required.

WRT the car gun, I keep a 1911 secured in a lock box cabled to the seat frame. Sometimes it will ride on the seat, or in a Wilderness Safe Packer next to me (meets Florida law for example). The lock box is a trade off, I mitigate that by most often carrying a different gun on my person, relying on the car gun only when I'm heading someplace I know I will be required to disarm (a bar or Court for example).
12/18/2013 5:02:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote History
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Notification laws vary from State to State. The OP is in GA, and is not required to notify if carrying. Not all cops are happy about armed citizens, and some take their dislike of it to extremes. A few good example of their abuse can be seen on YouTube, and may show good cause not to notify unless required.
View Quote
Quite often when notification is not required, it's because the DMV and CCW data bases are already linked so the CCW information shows up when the plate and/or VDL is run.

AR, KY, NC, NY, OH, TN, TX, VA, WA, and WY are all states where they are connected - at least that I am aware of.  There are no doubt plenty more where it's connected that I am not aware of.

GA is not one of the states where the CCW information comes up with the DMV information.

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My personal thoughts are that in states where CCW permits are common, the officers will know the law, and generally not be too disturbed by a driver with a concealed weapon and a permit.  In states where permits are not common, the officer may not know the particulars of the notification requirement and may be a little cranky if he feels you were supposed to tell him and did not.  So if in doubt, notify the officer.  

There are exceptions, but generally speaking, at least in states where the back ground checks and class requirements are fairly rigorous, having a permit suggests a reasonable degree of vetting of your "good guy" status.

12/18/2013 6:52:57 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Notification laws vary from State to State. The OP is in GA, and is not required to notify if carrying. Not all cops are happy about armed citizens, and some take their dislike of it to extremes. A few good example of their abuse can be seen on YouTube, and may show good cause not to notify unless required.
View Quote
Quite often when notification is not required, it's because the DMV and CCW data bases are already linked so the CCW information shows up when the plate and/or VDL is run.

AR, KY, NC, NY, OH, TN, TX, VA, WA, and WY are all states where they are connected - at least that I am aware of.  There are no doubt plenty more where it's connected that I am not aware of.

GA is not one of the states where the CCW information comes up with the DMV information.

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My personal thoughts are that in states where CCW permits are common, the officers will know the law, and generally not be too disturbed by a driver with a concealed weapon and a permit.  In states where permits are not common, the officer may not know the particulars of the notification requirement and may be a little cranky if he feels you were supposed to tell him and did not.  So if in doubt, notify the officer.  

There are exceptions, but generally speaking, at least in states where the back ground checks and class requirements are fairly rigorous, having a permit suggests a reasonable degree of vetting of your "good guy" status.

View Quote

Much logic in what you wrote, unfortunately it does not always transfer to real life. Here in Michigan, I know the DMV database is linked with CPL holder info, yet even the police don't always know the law. I was stopped once by a State Trooper (supposedly Michigan's finest, and they do have a good rep). He got the CPL notification on the radio while he was at my window interviewing me. I was not carrying that night, and so had no duty to inform, but he was very upset I'd not done so, even though I was not carrying. He insisted the law required that I inform him I had a license, whether I was carrying or not. I politely told him I thought that applied only if carrying (didn't think, I knew the law cold). When he returned with my citation, he routinely informed me that I'd been right on that point, as he'd "looked it up".

You mention "when in doubt". I travel many States highways, and am never in doubt. You need to know the notification requirement of whatever State you are in, as well as other limitations, if you are exercising rights under reciprocity (my Michigan license is honored in 40 States). I've had encounters in other States where notification is not required (not all were traffic stops). If the encounter is going smoothly an professionally, I do generally inform "as a courtesy". If the cop had an attitude, or I sensed some animosity, if not required to notify, I'd keep quiet.
12/19/2013 5:08:43 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote History
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You mention "when in doubt". I travel many States highways, and am never in doubt. You need to know the notification requirement of whatever State you are in, as well as other limitations, if you are exercising rights under reciprocity (my Michigan license is honored in 40 States). I've had encounters in other States where notification is not required (not all were traffic stops). If the encounter is going smoothly an professionally, I do generally inform "as a courtesy". If the cop had an attitude, or I sensed some animosity, if not required to notify, I'd keep quiet.
View Quote
The "doubt" mentioned here is not about the law - it's our responsibility to know it.  The "doubt" is about whether the officer may know it and/or how he'll take it if you don't notify him.

In practice that works out as you've described.

MI is also one of those states where I would never assume the officer has frequent contact with concealed carry permit holders, especially in the some of the more urban areas.