Posted: 9/9/2011 5:00:50 PM EDT
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What would make for a more concelable 1911 non bob-tailed grip - straight drop or "FBI" cant holster?
OWB Holster. 3-4 o'clock wear. 6' 210lbs...slight love handles |
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For me, straight drop lets the grip stick out the back too much and I print from the rear. FBI cant pulls the grip way forward and eliminates this problem, but the FBI cant will stick that grip in your ribs, which may or may not bother you. The FBI cant, however, brings the gun so far forward that, for me, the back of the slide where the rear sight is sticks out the front and I print from the front. If you look at me head on, you see a weird bulge there where the rear of the slide is poking out.
I've found that the ideal cant for me is somewhere in between straight drop (O degree) and the drastic FBI cant. I had to play around with cants a bit to find what works for me. I've got my CTAC set perfectly now, but I'm not sure what the degree measurement actually is. |
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Quoted:
For me, straight drop lets the grip stick out the back too much and I print from the rear. FBI cant pulls the grip way forward and eliminates this problem, but the FBI cant will stick that grip in your ribs, which may or may not bother you. The FBI cant, however, brings the gun so far forward that, for me, the back of the slide where the rear sight is sticks out the front and I print from the front. If you look at me head on, you see a weird bulge there where the rear of the slide is poking out. I've found that the ideal cant for me is somewhere in between straight drop (O degree) and the drastic FBI cant. I had to play around with cants a bit to find what works for me. I've got my CTAC set perfectly now, but I'm not sure what the degree measurement actually is. This is my experience, too. If I'm carrying IWB at 3:30 or 4:00, then I prefer a forward cant to tuck the butt of the gun into my side. If I'm OWB at 3:00, then straight drop keeps the butt somewhat concealed without causing the rear of the slide to poke out in front. |
Combined with belt attachment points set at the lateral extremes of the holster, rather than right on the front of it, a generous amount of cant can really tuck the grip of a full size pistol into to your torso, making for excellent concealment, on all but the smallest builds. I can conceal this, under just a dark colored t-shirt: What is popularly called "FBI cant" is generally about 15 degrees. The holster pictured here features 25 degrees of cant, which I find is perfect for carry at 4:00 to 4:30. |
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Combined with belt attachment points set at the lateral extremes of the holster, rather than right on the front of it, a generous amount of cant can really tuck the grip of a full size pistol into to your torso, making for excellent concealment, on all but the smallest builds. I can conceal this, under just a dark colored t-shirt: http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/Trisagion/K25MP45/K-25_MP45_web_02.jpg What is popularly called "FBI cant" is generally about 15 degrees. The holster pictured here features 25 degrees of cant, which I find is perfect for carry at 4:00 to 4:30. I've found that the more aggressive forward cant is not a problem with IWB holsters. I have my CTAC set up with an aggressive forward cant and it conceals great. The OP asked about OWB and I've not found an OWB FBI cant holster that didn't print out the front really bad for me. Being outside the belt-line just screws it for me. IWB is a whole different story for the forward cant. Specific to OWB, the FBI cant at 15 degrees prints out the front for me, and a straight drop at 0 degrees prints out the back. The best OWB I've found for concealment so far is a standard Raven Concealment Phantom, which I believe are set at 10 degrees. It's amazing what a difference is made by changing any one of the variables: IWB vs OWB, degree of cant, location on the belt (and the belt itself), location of attachment points (excellent point made there by Seraph), etc. |
I like to carry at 3 O'clock and prefer a straight drop, I solve the butt printing problem by utilizing a holster design that flexes at the front belt loop and allows the rear belt loop to pull the butt in.  My buddy ikor prefers a very slight cant (4 degree) so I accommodated him .......    ........ and vanilla_gorilla likes to wear his more to 4 O'clock. The further back you wear the holster the more cant you'll need to get a proper draw stroke.     |
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I like to carry at 3 O'clock and prefer a straight drop, I solve the butt printing problem by utilizing a holster design that flexes at the front belt loop and allows the rear belt loop to pull the butt in. My buddy ikor prefers a very slight cant (4 degree) so I accommodated him ....... Do you make holsters? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Combined with belt attachment points set at the lateral extremes of the holster, rather than right on the front of it, a generous amount of cant can really tuck the grip of a full size pistol into to your torso, making for excellent concealment, on all but the smallest builds. I can conceal this, under just a dark colored t-shirt: http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/Trisagion/K25MP45/K-25_MP45_web_02.jpg What is popularly called "FBI cant" is generally about 15 degrees. The holster pictured here features 25 degrees of cant, which I find is perfect for carry at 4:00 to 4:30. I've found that the more aggressive forward cant is not a problem with IWB holsters. I have my CTAC set up with an aggressive forward cant and it conceals great. The OP asked about OWB and I've not found an OWB FBI cant holster that didn't print out the front really bad for me. Being outside the belt-line just screws it for me. IWB is a whole different story for the forward cant. Specific to OWB, the FBI cant at 15 degrees prints out the front for me, and a straight drop at 0 degrees prints out the back. The best OWB I've found for concealment so far is a standard Raven Concealment Phantom, which I believe are set at 10 degrees. It's amazing what a difference is made by changing any one of the variables: IWB vs OWB, degree of cant, location on the belt (and the belt itself), location of attachment points (excellent point made there by Seraph), etc. I guess I didn't really complete my suggestion. The holster in my picture is convertible between IWB and OWB modes. It conceals, for me, and for a lot of people, quite nearly as well in OWB mode, as it does in IWB mode, which I think is partly attributable to its relatively low ride height. It's not that I'm recommending this holster specifically, especially since I don't currently make them for 1911's. What I'm getting at, is that a canted holster, worn at around 4:00, will conceal the OP's 1911 beautifully, whether IWB or OWB, when other criteria are met, regarding ride height, and positioning of belt attachment points. I suppose my specific recommendation would be that the OP check out something like the Alessi CQC/S, or Brommeland Def-Con, both of which conceal a full size 1911 beautifully. |
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Quoted: I like to carry at 3 O'clock and prefer a straight drop, I solve the butt printing problem by utilizing a holster design that flexes at the front belt loop and allows the rear belt loop to pull the butt in. http://oi53.tinypic.com/34h7x9z.jpg My buddy ikor prefers a very slight cant (4 degree) so I accommodated him ....... http://oi54.tinypic.com/25fk3mx.jpg http://oi53.tinypic.com/2zgcmeg.jpg http://oi52.tinypic.com/2lc30n8.jpg ........ and vanilla_gorilla likes to wear his more to 4 O'clock. The further back you wear the holster the more cant you'll need to get a proper draw stroke. http://oi51.tinypic.com/n6ouiw.jpg http://oi51.tinypic.com/20hvghg.jpg http://oi51.tinypic.com/9k6wkz.jpg http://oi53.tinypic.com/35c4nqq.jpg Good post. |
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I guess I didn't really complete my suggestion. The holster in my picture is convertible between IWB and OWB modes. It conceals, for me, and for a lot of people, quite nearly as well in OWB mode, as it does in IWB mode, which I think is partly attributable to its relatively low ride height. It's not that I'm recommending this holster specifically, especially since I don't currently make them for 1911's. What I'm getting at, is that a canted holster, worn at around 4:00, will conceal the OP's 1911 beautifully, whether IWB or OWB, when other criteria are met, regarding ride height, and positioning of belt attachment points. I suppose my specific recommendation would be that the OP check out something like the Alessi CQC/S, or Brommeland Def-Con, both of which conceal a full size 1911 beautifully. Gotcha, good suggestions. I want an Alessi CQC really bad. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I guess I didn't really complete my suggestion. The holster in my picture is convertible between IWB and OWB modes. It conceals, for me, and for a lot of people, quite nearly as well in OWB mode, as it does in IWB mode, which I think is partly attributable to its relatively low ride height. It's not that I'm recommending this holster specifically, especially since I don't currently make them for 1911's. What I'm getting at, is that a canted holster, worn at around 4:00, will conceal the OP's 1911 beautifully, whether IWB or OWB, when other criteria are met, regarding ride height, and positioning of belt attachment points. I suppose my specific recommendation would be that the OP check out something like the Alessi CQC/S, or Brommeland Def-Con, both of which conceal a full size 1911 beautifully. Gotcha, good suggestions. I want an Alessi CQC really bad. I've never seen a better quick on/off OWB holster than the Alessi CQC/S. There are some good looking copies/derivatives out there, as well, and I suppose that, since Mr. Alessi himself is departed (RIP, Lou), I wouldn't neglect to consider those. |
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Quoted:
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I guess I didn't really complete my suggestion. The holster in my picture is convertible between IWB and OWB modes. It conceals, for me, and for a lot of people, quite nearly as well in OWB mode, as it does in IWB mode, which I think is partly attributable to its relatively low ride height. It's not that I'm recommending this holster specifically, especially since I don't currently make them for 1911's. What I'm getting at, is that a canted holster, worn at around 4:00, will conceal the OP's 1911 beautifully, whether IWB or OWB, when other criteria are met, regarding ride height, and positioning of belt attachment points. I suppose my specific recommendation would be that the OP check out something like the Alessi CQC/S, or Brommeland Def-Con, both of which conceal a full size 1911 beautifully. Gotcha, good suggestions. I want an Alessi CQC really bad. I've never seen a better quick on/off OWB holster than the Alessi CQC/S. There are some good looking copies/derivatives out there, as well, and I suppose that, since Mr. Alessi himself is departed (RIP, Lou), I wouldn't neglect to consider those. What copies/derivatives out there would you recommend? A good, black leather, OWB holster could be an upcoming purchase for me. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I like to carry at 3 O'clock and prefer a straight drop, I solve the butt printing problem by utilizing a holster design that flexes at the front belt loop and allows the rear belt loop to pull the butt in. My buddy ikor prefers a very slight cant (4 degree) so I accommodated him ....... Do you make holsters? I make a few. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I guess I didn't really complete my suggestion. The holster in my picture is convertible between IWB and OWB modes. It conceals, for me, and for a lot of people, quite nearly as well in OWB mode, as it does in IWB mode, which I think is partly attributable to its relatively low ride height. It's not that I'm recommending this holster specifically, especially since I don't currently make them for 1911's. What I'm getting at, is that a canted holster, worn at around 4:00, will conceal the OP's 1911 beautifully, whether IWB or OWB, when other criteria are met, regarding ride height, and positioning of belt attachment points. I suppose my specific recommendation would be that the OP check out something like the Alessi CQC/S, or Brommeland Def-Con, both of which conceal a full size 1911 beautifully. Gotcha, good suggestions. I want an Alessi CQC really bad. I've never seen a better quick on/off OWB holster than the Alessi CQC/S. There are some good looking copies/derivatives out there, as well, and I suppose that, since Mr. Alessi himself is departed (RIP, Lou), I wouldn't neglect to consider those. What copies/derivatives out there would you recommend? A good, black leather, OWB holster could be an upcoming purchase for me. Skip Ritchie, at Ritchie Leather Co., used to work with Lou Alessi. His CQ-QR is a dead ringer for the Alessi CQC/S, and is likely identical in most respects. 5-Shot also makes a very similar holster, called the SAP (Snap Attachment Pancake). I recently saw one made by Seth's Gun Leather, called the Paladin, which looks very promising. I haven't bought any of these holsters, so I can offer them as recommendations, but do offer them rather as suggestions. |
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Skip Ritchie, at Ritchie Leather Co., used to work with Lou Alessi. His CQ-QR is a dead ringer for the Alessi CQC/S, and is likely identical in most respects. 5-Shot also makes a very similar holster, called the SAP (Snap Attachment Pancake). I recently saw one made by Seth's Gun Leather, called the Paladin, which looks very promising. I haven't bought any of these holsters, so I can offer them as recommendations, but do offer them rather as suggestions. Thank you, sir! |
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Thanks for the good insight everyone.
I have been looking over the Alessi CQC style holster along with the Milt Sparks NLG type holsters. The way I read it, the placement of the belt loops on the NLG is what pulls the but in "better" than other configurations. I am more used to a straight drop since thats how my USPSA comp holsters are set up, which are all kydex. Im interested in some nice leather now. |