Posted: 10/17/2007 7:05:20 PM EDT
|
Hi all, I'm new to USGI 1911's but not to collecting. My interests have been K98k's and P38s besides some modern firearms . I have a modern Colt 1911 but am looking for info on a Remington Rand USGI 1911 that is a potential purchase. This is the description I was given: " This is a Remington Rand, serial number 1924135 made in 1943. All the markings on the gun are correct. Top of barrel and frame has the "P"(proof mark) stamp. Left side of frame behind trigger is stamped "FJA" for ordinance inspector Col. Frank J. Atwood. Right rear of frame has the ordinance department inspector stamp (this is typically a very softly stamped hard to see mark). Magazine is original and made by General Shaver (stamp mark is "G"). Barrel is correct and stamped HS for high standard. The high standard barrels were blued. Grips are correct and made by Keyes Fibre Co. and are marked "K" inside a five pointed star. Parkerized finish and about 97%. Slide has the two tone appearance in the correct areas because of the heat treatment process in the making of the weapon. That is another indicator that parkerized finish is right.No gleam on the field during war. THIS IS A GREAT COLLECTOR PIECE THAT IS ALL ORIGINAL. There are many fakes or parts guns on the market that are worth less. They won’t have the stamps on the gun. The numbers match up. This is a very solid nice gun. You can look the serial up too. The gun was just sitting in the guy’s basement since grandpa made it back from the war. And he probably didn’t care if he ever saw it again. "      My initial impressions with my limited knowledge of these guns are that it is in very good shape and condition may match the "story". But as always you must buy the gun not the story. The only thing that doesn't sit well with me is the finish. I have looked at some other RR guns in this forum and the finish is different and is very good (refinished?). I would appreciate any other informed opinions about this gun and maybe some idea of value. I do realize that value can be quite different in different areas but a ballpark amount would be helpful. Thanks in advance , Meade >>Looks like the serial# does place it as late 1944 which the parkerized finish is correct I'm thinking it is a correct gun....that has been refinished. Update: >>I hope to see this gun in person this weekend. I've been told by the seller that he was offered a substantial amount in trade at a reputable dealer but they didn't have the shotgun he was looking for. Maybe a story but I still want to see it in person. The original owner supposedly has a cardboard box that it came in but the family wanted to keep it because Grampa's name and info was on it. Does anyone know if these were sold by CMP or others in a cardboard box after being repark'd/rearsenaled? post-war?? I have some pics of correct guns with a close serial# to compare this with. |
|
How much is he asking for it? Because if it truly is as mint as it looks, he should be asking $2,500 plus for it. You would need to get more detailed photos of the markings which would help you tell if its been refinished. I would at the very least say the barrel is suspect. I have seen documented 97% guns with more barrel wear then that. Edit: I just found a gun like the one you are looking for. If the guy wants good $$ for it, he needs to be providing pictures like in this add. Also, unless the guy is asking for some serious money, I highly doubt its authentic. He obviously has done some research so it's not like he wouldnt know what something like that is worth. www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8097868 |
| The parts look externally "correct". If the barrel has an "HS" on the lug and the grips have a star on the inside that would be correct too. The finish however looks way to good to be 60+ years old unless that thing has sat in an eviromentally controlled chamber all that time. How much is the owner aking? |
|
It could be original; stranger things have happened. It could also be refinished right after the war. If you like it, if I were you, I'd make sure it comes with a 3-5 day inspection period if you buy it. Check it for signs of buffing (it'll be easier to spot than you think). Maybe it was arsenal reworked and has the requisite stamp on it to prove it. Note that it was made in 1944, not 1943, according to Clawson. The mainspring housing, slide stop, and thumb safety should all be checkered, but they COULD be serrated...it was made in early 44, and I'm unsure when the general cutoff was. One thing to note is that there should be no parking inside the serial number if it's the original finish, according to Clawson. The serial number was stamped after the gun was parked. Edited to add I DO have a 1943 RR here...the barrel is indeed blued, and the slide stop is blued as well on mine. I'm not %100 positive mine was not refinished (the serial number does have some parking in it), but that could also be discoloration from it being handed around for the last 60 years. |
|
if it looks too good to be true... Another +1 on the park. To maintain a weapon (especially an old parked one) takes oil. Just about all of the WWII era weapons I've seen (not that that's a lot) that are parked look almost blued from decades of soaking in oil from cleanings/wipedowns etc. That looks like a fresh park job to me. I'm thinking a 1943 1911 would have seen some sort of use (holster wear at the least) and this seems to have none. What's he asking for it? |
|
Looking at it again...if it were original, all the proofs on the frame (except maybe the FJA) would be "in the white", struck after it was parked. The barrel looks parked, not blued...all WWII barrels as delivered with complete guns were, IIRC, blued..especially as he says it's marked High Standard. (Flannery barrels, I don't know about...IIRC they were field replacements, so I don't know if they were delivered/fitted as blued, or parked...) If it were priced accordingly (less than a grand, probably closer to 750-800) I might be tempted to bite. If the seller is charging full freight on it as if it were a real original in kraft box RR...well, that's a different story. |
|
What you appear to have is a US arsenal reworked Remington 1911A, showing almost no wear sine it's rebuild. No WWII pistols were delivered form any manufacturer in the type of park that's on your pistol. The Army started to overhaul all of their WWII weapons starting in 1946, and part of that process was to parkerize the weapon as a rust preventitave measure. While it is not truly 'origonal', it is correct for it's time period as long as the little pieces have the correct checkering or serations. An original Remington 1911A1 |
Well I got to see this gun in person and it was obviously refinished. The barrel was not blued and the mag also had the same rough finish. The gun seemed like it was in decent shape under the finish . It did look like it had a line of rust under the finish between the mainspring housing and the the grip on the right side. It is nice mechanically and would make a decent shooter or a restoration prospect. I did make an offer for a shooter only. Thanks to all who responded and as always buy the gun not the story.  |