[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ruger P345 (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/18/2007 8:30:34 AM EDT
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Why has this pistol failed to set the world on fire like the M&P series appears to have? It seems like a foregone conclusion that the upcoming M&P45 will bury the Ruger, even though the P345 has had well over a year's head start. What is Ruger doing wrong? In the interest of full disclosure, I do not own any of the guns mentioned here, so I am not trying to start a shitstorm between their fans. |
Quality almost always wins out in the marketplace. Ruger has a rep as being built like a tank & balancing like one as well. That's a big handicap to overcome with the unwashed masses, IMO. My .o2 |
| I thought my P345 was very comfortable and it would shoot as well as any other pistol I have ever had including some twice its price. My CZ 97B and 1911 are a little more accurate but not that much for what kind of pistol it is. The fact it was a single stack instead of holding 13rds in the mag like my XD was the only draw back for me. If I did not need the cash I never would have sold it and would actualy consider buying one again. Most Ruger Semi autos do not do it for me but the P345 is a nice pistol in my opinion. |
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Well, that pistol had a lot of problems when it first came out. Even the folks on the Ruger Forum were not happy - and the consensus was to wait 2 years for the bugs to get worked out. I almost bought one a while back until I read about all the problems. But to be honest, most people look at Ruger's as entry level guns - the 1st gun someone buys when they don't know better. I think they will have a hard time overcoming that. Plus, some diehard gunners are pissed at Ruger and S&W for their decisions made w/ the govt. Apparently, Ruger (from what others have told me) supported the fact that no one needed mags over 10 rounds when the assault weapons ban was introduced in the 1990s. Visit: ps90forum.com |
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I think that most things made by Ruger get a bad rap before they even leave the factory. Here's the way I look at it. As far as their handguns go (I own a P89) you're paying right around $300 for a handgun that will run any ammo all day long...at least as far as their P89's and P95's and that style. Are ergonomics the best? No, but how many handguns have absolutely perfect ergonomics especially considering that ergonomics are subjective. My P89 with houge rap around grips is comfortable enough to shoot all day and that's all that matters. I can say that the P345 had much better ergos than my P89 does from fondling one at a gun store. For the P345, you're getting a solid .45 single stack that will not jam (after the kinks have been worked out) and is a very reasonable price tag. That's where it competes. You can say that a $1300 1911 is better and more accurate...no shit! That's what Ruger markets is very affordable, super reliable, non-ugly (may not be a beauty contest winner but it's no Hipoint), entry level handgun. It may be heavier than some but certainly not heavier than all (steel frame 1911's and CZ's certainly weigh more) and you may not like its looks (which is subjective) but you can bet your life that it will work when you pull the trigger. The same about the complaints about the Mini-14. Reliability issues? Bad mags. I wish that Ruger would pull their thumbs out of their asses and start selling high caps again but they just don't think we "need" them. Whatever. Hopefully C-products will have their mini 14 mags out soon so no one will ever need to worry or complain about it again. Accuracy issues? Send it back to Ruger. They say the minis are suppose to shoot 4 MOA IIRC. If it doesn't, they warranty repair it. It may take them a little while but they'll make it accurate for you or redo it. Not satisfied with 4 MOA? You're paying half the price for something compared to an AR in the same caliber. Expect half the accuracy. I know that my mini works and it will easily hit minute of man at 100 yds. with irons and even easier with a reflex scope. It's good enough to be mounted in my trunk as a "get home rifle" because I know that it will last as long as it takes me to get home and won't skip a beat. I hope you see what I'm getting at. Ruger produces functional and affordable weapons that won't let you down and they guarantee that they won't. If you want a match grade weapon then get a 1911 or an AR but expect to pay 3-4 times more for a match grade equivalent when comparing it to that platform that Ruger offers. I'm not a gigantic fan of Ruger either, I just think they deserve a fair chance and people shouldn't just go with the herd that they suck. Oh, and the thing about Ruger not feeling that anyone needs anything higher than 10 round mags. That only applies to the Minis. They are still selling hicap P series mags and started selling them again immediately after the ban went bye-bye. |
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Russbunny, I agree with you for the most part. I've always liked Ruger revolvers. It's their semi autos that don't do it for me. And their blue-n-wood hunting rifles are some of the most elegant in their price bracket. Their accuracy is also plenty good for their intended use, particularly the Model 77. The Number 1A in 7X57 is a classic. |
Bob, how many P series rugers have you shot? My P89 is just as accurate as many other much more expensive handguns that I've fired. I can group 2-4 inches at 25 yards with it and my brother's P95 very easily. That's just about as accurate as I've seen from any other semi-auto combat usable handgun that I've ever come in contact with. Maybe some of the uber competition 1911's for $2500 can do better but that's pretty trivial. If you're not getting that type of accuracy then you should think about contacting Ruger or find out what you're doing wrong or ask someone else that shoots really well to try it out. The reasons that I wouldn't choose the P345 for a CCW, as well as any other Ruger P series is size. All of the P series are too bulky for CCW as far as I'm concerned. For the P345, I also don't like the lower capacity but then again I'm a 9mm guy myself so that usually just comes with the territory. My personal pick for CCW is my G19. Accurate, reliable, small enough to conceal but large enough to fit my hands, 15 round capacity, 17 round spare mags, and light enough to wear all day without noticing. If you're looking for a good .45 CCW, you should start a thread to get some good opinions. Like I said, I don't have a lot of experience with all of the .45's out there so other's opinions would be a bit better as to what is a good size, accurate, and reliable. |
All handguns are really as accurate as the shooter. Maybe you need more practice????? I cant count the number of people I have seen at the range in the lane next to me give me some sort of weird look when my group (with my P89) is half of theirs. Then again, I shoot once a week at the minimum. |
| the P345 is easily the best semi-autp handgun ruger makes. it feels great in the hand, the trigger isnt terrible and its reaonsably accurate. i was going to buy one for my dad but its inability to accept 1911 mags was a show stopper. what a stupid thing to do. |
Is this precise enough for you? 13 yards off hand, Ruger P95 Speer Gold dots:  Or how about this:  A Ruger in the hand of someone who has any skills can shoot as well as a much more expensive gun like a HK, Sig, 1911, Glock ect. Just because it may be an "ugly" inexpensive hand gun doe not mean it is inaccurate what so ever. |
So do I however it just so happened that my cheapo P345 was as accurate as my SIG220ST and my HK USP and my Glock and my Smiths and most of my other pistols that cost more. 
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Yes, I agree.... Visit: ps90forum.com |
I have shot with many of them, as well as alongside of them. Rugers are robust, hardcore & will stand up to abuse that would kill most other guns. but, accurate as others they ain't. You get good accuracy with yours, that's a rariety, IMO.  |
Awfully easy to be a keyboard badass in your case too, I guess. Feel free to show up at some IPSC matches & see where your beloved Rugers stack up against the other brands. Be sure to bring lots of cash, to cover your bets. Or, feel free to mind your own business, eh???? |
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Didn't Ayoob win some fairly big comps with a Ruger? LOL If I went to a comp I would do just as good with a Ruger as I did with any thing I have except probably for my CZs that I can hit a little better with. If I did though it would be one where we ran stock pistols for the most part not race guns. |
Not in my book. 13 yards isn't exactly setting the record for range accuracy, is it? Look, you like your Ruger & fine & dandy. But IF Ruger's are SO wonderfully accurate, then WHY don't they dominate in popularity at matches such as IPSC, IDPA, bullseye, etc.???? Isn't there a reason they don't? Certainly anyone who is involved in IDPA/IPSC is exposed to all sorts of variety of brands, no? Not to mention any shooter is quick to offer advice on why their brand is their choice of match use, no? Answer those for me & then we'll see...................... 
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I've known a few guys that used Ruger P series for competition with great success. There is also a good difference between a combat style handgun and a match grade gun. There just isn't a market for the P series Rugers as far as competition, plain and simple. One of the issues is the DA/SA trigger is not the best for accuracy but can lend itself better to a carry weapon. How is it a rarity that I have an accurate Ruger. Several others have posted about their accuracy, including SkagSig who is getting 2.5" groups at 25 yards. That's enough to easily shoot someone in the head, even if their behind a human shield...is that not a precise shot? You clearly have a poor representation of what a handgun is even designed for. Maybe you should reevaluate your guidelines for what the differences are between a handgun and a rifle since you seem to be set on assigning tasks to a handgun that should be left up to a rifle. Then you get back to me when YOU have an answer. Or we could turn this into an even bigger debate. There is still the fact that if you are not happy with the accuracy of a Ruger firearm (provided it is actually the gun) Ruger will make it more acccurate up to a certain extent. The accuracy of a Ruger has all ready been proven so I don't even see how you have an argument. Also, are you expecting to get match grade accuracy for $300? In fact, the accuracy that Rugers are capable of is rather astonishing for that little amount of money. So does anyone have anything else constructive to say to help the OP that isn't just gun snobbery against Ruger? |
What does dominate.......glock.......they are no more accurate then a p-series. There are OTHER reasons that Rugers are not choosen. Its not accuracy. FWIW, I have seen several Rugers. |
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There are several reasons why Rugers aren't a popular choice for competition. Probably the biggest is the lack of aftermarket parts for them. Aside from sights, what else is really out there? The next biggest reason is probably because Ruger refuses to sell critical fire control components to owners. Then, there's the DA/SA platform -- not usually the most popular action for competition, though Ernie Langdon seems to have done well with it. It's also my personal belief that the bore axis and massive slide negatively impact follow-up shots. I've never owned a centerfire Ruger semi, but I've shot a few owned by friends. I've found that in my hands, I couldn't justify calling them particularly inaccurate. Mostly I've seen that the perception of them as inaccurate is usually due to an inexperienced owner. |
You're wrong on this. The P345 WILL run 1911 mags- after a slight modification. All you have to do is make a dremel cut in the mag for the Ruger Mag catch. I can use all of my 1911 mags in my P345. You can do this yourself, or convince a gunsmith to do it. My gunsmith charged me $10 per modification. Cheap if you ask me. |
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My P345 had some problems that cleared up when I removed the magazine safety. I couldn't get through a magazine before doing this modification. Now it runs well but I'm still more accurate with my Norinco 1911 or Beretta 92 - maybe it's just lack of practice. The P345 is great if you need a cheap CCW or have small hands like I do. I've heard people say it’s a lot like a SIG 220; fits the same holster and everything. Jeff |
Lets start at the begining, shall we?
You state that Rugers are cheap, yet not accurate. This is an important point, don't forget it, because we'll be coming back to it in a moment.
Not being a badass, just stating the facts, ma'am.
I don't own any Rugers. Mechanical accuracy (or even practical accuracy) of a Ruger is just as good as any other mass produced off the shelf gun. This isn't some pissing contest about IPSC pistol usage. A Ruger is far from an ideal match pistol. Again, just the facts ma'am. I love how you always try to change what the topic is about to make yourself appear correct. Luckily, everyone sees through you!
You shouldn't post on a public forum if you don't want people to ridicule and pick apart your bullshit. Or, you could refrain from posting said bullshit. Either works for me.
Utter stupidity yet again. I don't care about matches, or how many Ruger owners attend them. It isn't a match pistol. And the sample of pistols you've seen at certain matches (almost exclusively single action autos) has little to do with the accuracy of a Ruger. Now, about that first point. Here is a real challenge for YOU, so you can put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is: Bring whatever other off-the-shelf service pistol you want. I will arrange to have a rest set up so both pistols can be fired without human error. If your pistol is significantly more accurate than the Ruger (50% more accurate at 25 yards, with 10 shots fired), I will pay you $1000. If your chosen pistol can not shoot more than 50% more accurately than the Ruger, you owe me $1000. Since Rugers are so inaccurate, you should have ABSOLUTELY NO TROUBLE finding a gun that can do this. This is 100% serious. You do not live very far away from me, I can make all the range preparations. All you have to do is tell me which gun you are bringing, and show up. I will have a box stock P95 there to use for my portion of the shooting. Easy $1000 for you, right? So what do you say? |
I'm looking at the gun for use across the board not just target/range gun. The Ruger has done well(but not the best) across the nation in compititions. It is not the most popular but it has don well from time to time. Now compairing the Ruger(say a P95/P89) to any other standard combat handgun(HK, Sig, Glock, XD, some 1911's, S&W ect) it easily performs on the same level as the others and there is no arguing that. These groups are about as tight as it gets for a combat handgun. If the groups got any tighter it would be close to single hole!!!  Let's see you get tighter groups with a Sig, HK, Glock ect off hand at 10-13-25 yards. I seriously doubt you can. Be honest about it and shoot off hand at these distances and post pics of your groups. I/we have up up now you put up. Till you do please stop bashing Ruger as what you are spreading on the internet is 100% false!!!!! Remember I say all of this not a Ruger lover but a Sig lover. I shoot, compeet and CCW with Sig. I just reccognize that Ruger is a fine, accurate, reliable firearm that derserves everyones respect. It has tons of potential....probibly more then you have to dish out. |
Yeah, sure. 
And a Beretta is? Or H&K? Glock? Or XYZ brand?
I guess when you cannot supply logic, reason or facts you need to resort to childish infantile rants. No doubt you are proud of yourself for such a majestic demonstration of humor. Not to mention you haven't shown a SINGLE fact yet, at all. Not one. Grow up, sonny. |
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The P345 is the worst gun in the entire Ruger lineup. It is a poor design, though the ergonomics are outstanding. Some Ruger models have good accuracy, some don't. The P90 can run with any Sig, HK, or 1911. The P95 is probably the best overall pistol in the Ruger lineup, but its accuracy is not known as being great. However, it is certainly accurate enough for anything short of competition. |
So you're not willing to take his bet? |
I love it when people who own and have experiance with a particular firearm state the performance they get from it good or bad and all of a sudden they are supposed to deny everything they have actually seen the firearm do just because some guy that thinks he is an expert tells them that what took place actually could not truly happen. I understand some people post false information but when I have seen it my self it cracks me up. My SIG, HK, Beretta, Glock, XDs, CZs, Smiths, Steyer, and others must all be the one runt that can not out shoot the Ruger P345 that I had or the Ruger 9mm I had. The only pistols I have shot that out shoot it are my 1911 and CZ. It shot just as good as any other pistol I have owned and just as reliable but hey it can not happen because all the people in the know say it can not happen. LOL  
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Been proven. Show otherwise. And the great thing about it is, if you are so sure you're right, come take my $1000. You already said you're poor, I know you'd drive a few hours for $1000. If I make it $2000, would that change your mind?
When faced with a percieved lack of "facts" (mostly by you) I attempted to discover what the true "facts" are by arranging a real life test. Are you coming? Sundays are good for me, but I can pick another day if it works better with your schedule.
Not meant to be funny, it was totally serious. I now up the ante to $2000. I'll even go $2000 against your $1000. I have plenty of logic, reason, and facts behind what I say, else I wouldn't be putting my money on the line. You won't find any guns that are 50% more accurate than an off the shelf Ruger. This is a FACT. If you dispute this fact, then bring your weapon of choice, and bring your money. So? You coming? This would be a great opportunity for you. You'd make a good deal of money, and get to show the world how horrible those Rugers really are!
He didn't even mention it. I guess he's hoping I forgot about it? |
No, you've changed my mind. In fact, I'm taking ALL of my guns to the gun show tomorrow to trade them ALL in for nothing but Rugers. Doens't matter which models, nothing but Rugers: .22s, 9mm's, .45s, whatever. I will NEVER own anything but Ruger, nor shoot ANYHTING but a Ruger for the REST OF MY LIFE. I do this ONLY because of your suave & talented debating skills have convinced me that RUGER is the ONLY way to go with gun ownership. You can puff out your chest in your manly manner knowing YOU have placed me squarely behind you in the Ruger debate.  THANK YOU for showing me the RUGER LIGHT!!!!!  Anyone wish to buy some H&K's, Beretta's, Browning's, Colt's, Springfield's at rock bottom prices so I can recoup my losses with RUGER purchases?????????? |
If you would pay attention you would see that nobody is saying that Ruger is the end all be all gun. We are simply stating that Ruger is not the inferior gun that you think it is. Of course you have shown no evidence for your statements. Anthony is willing to prove it. |
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I've read through this entire thread and I must say, I own Browning HP's, SIG's, S&W's, Beretta's, CZ's, Springfield's and RUGERS. My P345 is as accurate as any of them. I do not shoot in competitions. I just shoot for the pleasure of it. Maybe there isn't many Rugers in competition. That doesn't make them inaccurate. They may not be as pleasing to look at as others but I like my Rugers as much as every other gun I shoot. I think that's the only fact that everyone is trying to convey here. I love a good debate about this gun or that gun, this brand or that brand..... but to say that Rugers are inaccurate is false. My.02 Everybody cool off! Have a beer! 
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I think you're asking a bit much. He'd be out of his depth in a puddle. I think I proved my point though. I really wanted to take his $1000  Maybe next time he'll think before he posts? Nah, that's be the smart thing to do. And I'll say again, I don't own any Rugers! |
I just wanted him to post a simple picture of a 13 yard group fired off hand better then this: Pretty much cant be done so I'm not worried. It would be nice to take his 1,000 bucks though!
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Except he told you he would back it up........  |
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You think I'm trying to be a badass? BRING IT I'm ready to back up my shit IN REAL LIFE. All you can do is selectively reply to one line, and try to ignore the fact that everyone who reads this thread is laughing at you. They all know TN is close to KY. So come pick up your $2000. I'm waiting... |
You post that response to what sounds like a pretty legit test and wager and you are telling anthony346 grow up? Man, your cred just took another hit... |
| My P345 is as accurate as most other guns I've have. It's a heck of a deal to get a good pistol for a great price. I would not use it in CCW, but some people do. I think it is just like any other gun, depending on your own grip and comfort and practice with the weapon, you may be accurate, you may not. Bottom line for me, I like it and will keep it around. |
He does that often. Gets in over his head, turns tail and runs  This is the turn tail part.
He lost his cred around here 'long time ago. I guess he just hopes that with the activity of the boards that no one will notice the stuff he does? Sorry, this is the internet, everyone's watching. |
I think that anyone that frequents the handgun forums knows that all that he does is waits for a question about Ruger to pop up so he can swoop in and troll with speculation and pretty much plain old lies. Even if he gets poor accuracy from his Ruger (if he even owns one), it is hardly testament to their accuracy as many others have stated quite the contrary and that they are pretty much as accurate as you are. If he was getting such poor accuracy from his Ruger that would cause him to gripe and moan about it, I'd surely think that it would be worth it to him to send it into Ruger to get it repaired for accuracy issues, which they will do free of charge. I was in another thread and saw the same exact thing from him. All talk with no proof of anything. Just more bullshit and selective, child like responses to what others said. What can you expect though since A) this is the internet and any person with eyes and fingers will gladly use both to type bullshit into a forum with zero fact and zero reenforcement of anything and B) he could likely be a 15 year old kid just trolling around spreading crap and this is how he entertains himself for all we know. He comes in, talks crap, picks on parts of statements, and then leaves when he realizes that he's in over his head. Hell, for all anyone here knows, all of us could be 15 years old and none of us own guns or have any experience with them. Even if I were 15 years old though, at least I don't spread speculative misinformation. In fact I try to use my real world, unbiased information and experience to help people make a solid decision and keep my opinions out of a thread when I don't have any experience with something or don't have any actual constructive criticism. Now I just need to wait until he wanders back into this thread to see if the smoke has cleared for him and he'll pick my statements apart....I'm waiting. |