[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SHTF Glock (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/28/2005 1:14:30 PM EDT
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9MM or .45 ACP? 17 ?or 21? I am thinking 9MM due to ammo availability but .45 for stopping power. |
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17. Nothing wrong with the 21, but ammo availability trumps so called 'stopping power' in SHTF. Better to shoot something twice with ammo you've got than once with ammo you can't replace. Be prepared for this to turn into another correct but tiresome "shot placement over caliber" thread. You'd think as many as there are the idea of stopping power would be completely stamped out by now. |
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Point being? Of course it's not fun or easy or simple to actually use a firearm against a living breathing human. That's all psychological, and wouldn't change even if he was shooting a .22 or a .500S&W. Regardless of one's physical or mental ability to make the shot, 1 9mm in a baddie is better than 10 .45s over his head. When it comes to the ability of a bullet to stop an living thing, especially an angry violent thing, shot placement counts, period. Meanwhile, if his concern is ammo availbity vs. stopping power, I'd rather have more ammo. Heck, I'd rather have a Ruger and a brick of .22's than a 1911 with only one magazine. On the other hand, it's not like .45 is a wildcat cartritidge that's hard to find. --Josh |
| What I'm saying is, that hitting your target is the most important, and hardest, thing to do when SHTF. I don't like the 9mm but it gives you a lot more rounds than a .45 and thats why most people should choose it. Your gonna miss more often than you hit, period. 1911 guys say "if it takes me more than 7 rounds I'm probably dead anyway" and they are right, because they are out of ammo. |
Here I thought you were trying to argue with me, and we were agreeing. Ain't the misinformation superhighway great? 
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Without a doubt the G17 is the perfect SHTF weapon IMO. 1. Glocks are some of the most reliable guns out there and the G17 is the most reliable Glock. 2. Don't believe the BS hype about .45 over 9mm. If you do your job, the 9mm will do it's. The .45 does not have any more of that mythical "stopping power" than the 9mm 3. In a true SHTF scenario, 9mm ammo will be the easiest to find. 4. 17+1 rounds standard (19+1 with the +2 base plates) and a loaded 33 rounder for back up is a nice amount of firepower for when the zombies attack.  The G17 is not my favorite firearm but it will be the one I grab if the "S" ever really does "HTF" |
I'm more of the .40 cal type. My in house SHTF weapon is a Glock 22. I see a lot of stuff about availability of 9mm but I've never been somewhere and seen more 9mm than .40 Every single LE agency around here that I know of issues Glock 22s or 23s So the ammo and mags are pretty plentiful. |
Tell that to the guy on pcp they put 15 9mm rounds in to his chest and he still shot two deputies. It took the 25+ year veteran deputy popping him in the head with a .45 acp to stop him go with the 21 (if it fits in your hand right) if not go with the 22, 23, or 35.......truthfully i like the 35 |
Sounds more like a shot placement arguement than a caliber arguement to me...gotta disrupt the CNS to stop effectively. A determined (heavily drugged) person can do a lot of damage in the time it takes to bleed out. No arguement that the .45 is a great round or the 21 is a great gun. I've got one. If the 21 fits your hand, it's good choice. --Josh |
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I vote for the Glock 19 (even though that wasn't an option.) The Glock 19 is able to be concealed by most people and 9mm is the way to go (more ammo, easier to shoot for most family members). You can use 19 or 17 mags in it also, where with the 17 you can only use the G17 mags. F.A.S. Out (And Still in the Sandbox) |
Yeah, it's kinda obvious it had way more to do with the head shot than the caliber. |
And a 9mm to the head wouldn't stop him just as effectively? What about a .22 or a .25, come on guys we all know that big holes are better than little holes, but it's SHOT PLACEMENT that counts!!!!!!!1 |
Probably because the .45 is SO much bigger than the 9mm that I'm sure that's what made the difference, not shot placement or anything else meaningless like that   
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A. It's more plentiful in stores here, Big city depts always have some officers that know dept min. training is never enough and pay out of their own pocket. Little Rock especially does. B. Grandfather retired from LRPD after 39 years on, I have pictures of me as a 3 year old on the old chiefs desk, I was at the range the day LR Swat tested their new sigs to replace their MP-5s. I got to play  I've worked with several torn up LR officers in the back of my truck when I was an EMT, I party with LR cops at least twice a week, I've been asked 4 times this week (since I moved back) to come back and retest to join by 4 different officers. I'm obviously the exception to the rule, but yeah I think I could get ammo from then in SHTF. Not that I'd need to. Friends or not, I don't think if confiscations were ordered here they'd try on purpose to miss me for long if at all.
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| If you really want some SHTF versatility, consider a Glock 32 with a G23 barrel, and 9mm conversion barrel. You can use 3 calibers and 7 different types of mags (8 if you count the Scherer stick mags). That plus a G20 with all of the conversions and your pistol needs should be set. |
| I have both.......G-17 and G-21. I would use the G-17 for shtf situations. It is lighter.... and I have several G-18 mags that hold 33 rounds. That's a lot of firepower. It is accurate too......... I keep the G-21 for my bump in the night house gun. Night sights and a 13 round mag of 45 acp will take care of most problems around the house. |
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Be prepared for this to turn into another correct but tiresome "shot placement over caliber" thread. Why not? The same questions come up repetitively. Here are some tiresome topics: .45acp vs. 9mm revolver vs. semi auto Glock vs. .45acp Browning Double tap Controlled pairs Two to the body; one to the head. Shot placement Just some observations about vocerifous opinions. I hear a former Seals instructor praising the colt .45acp handgun and criticising the Glock. He fails to notice that it is the colt clones failing more often in class and shooters running dry at embarassing moments when shooting. I witness a former SWAT instructor fail to shoot while backing up and loading and being in continuous motion because he learned two to the chest and one to the head (and looking at the target for hits). I witness an SF Lt. Col unable to shoot designated areas (hey shoot the right arm, hey shoot base of throat) because he learned center mass. Then he complains that his people won't shoot at exposed elbows, hands and legs in real combat! If somebody wants to start up the ongoing thread again of .45acp vs. 9mm, that's ok. Hopefully, he will spend time and money to obtain good instruction. |
#4 for me is reversed: 33rd mags for primary usage and a few 17rd in case you use up the 33rd mags. |
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Quoted: No body that's ever shot someone, or tried, in real life will talk about shot placement. When it comes down to it, I don't care how good of a shot you are, shooting someone is a very hard thing to do. Anyone that's never done it that says they know for a fact they can, is full of shit. Chances are you'll be shaking so bad that you'll hit the people next to them. That's not bs, just a fact of life. I have shot pets, pets that I liked, I have shot animals just because they are tasety, I have shot animals before just to test the function of the bullet. Why would I hesitate to shoot a 2 legged animal that I despised or feared who was a threat to me or mine. |
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I'd have to go with get both. If the SHTF, you might only be able to find fmj ammo, then the .45 would be the better choice, but 9mm will be more easily found. And the person with the loaded gun has the better odds. I'd say get the 17 or 19 first, playing the lowest common denominator and then the 21 or even the 30 next, in case .45 does happen to be readily avaliable. |
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If you think about it, you might be better off with a sidearm that uses some oddball caliber projectile. Anybody who's anybody owns a 9mm or a .45, so that's exactly what is going to fly off the shelves first when the poo hits the fan. Though, realistically, your best bet is to just stockpile enough ammo now to the point where, if you are in a PHTF scenario, you won't need to go scavenging unless you're getting into a shootout every ten minutes. |
I had this same experience. The 19 is no less accurate (at least not in my hands) and easier to hide. I just got my 19 and love it. I think the 21 is a tad bit easier to control ( I have one) than the 30 but both are awsome guns. For SHTF I like like the idea of more rounds in smaller hidable package= 9MM. |
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Just bought a G17 after thinking about this ? for a couple years. I started with the .40 Glocks and I still love em' (G23c, 27, 34). Having said that, to defend a location or poeple (family) I want as much ammo as I can carry. This is another good reason to be an AR fan by the way. I'm not a criminal but if I were and somebody either pointed a weapon at me or shot at me, I would find another victim. Criminals follow the path of least resistance remember. I can carry 10 loaded AR mags and 4 loaded G17 mags and still be able to move free. That is lots of lead. Hopefully Glock will put this debate to rest with a carbine. It will without doubt come out in 9mm first. One bullet, two guns. End of debate. |
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I recommend you chose the pistol that you are most comfortable with and shoot best. Then keep a decent supply of ammo on hand so that you don't have to go on a scavenger hunt after the SHTF. With that said, 9mm ammo is cheaper and widely available, which makes it easier to train frequently. Good luck. |
No, that is not a fact. That is BS! You fight how you train. Why bother training otherwise. |
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Me: Golf Co. 2nd Bn. 8th Marines 82-85 India Co. (FatCocks) 3rd Bn. 8th Marines 85-87 Marine Security Guard Bn. US Embassy Paris, France and US Embassy Mauritina, West Africa 87-90 Alpha Co. 1st Bn. 1st Marines 90-92 (Desert Sheild/Desert Storm Task Force Papa Bear) For the above service I earned among other awards, a Combat Action Ribbon with star denoting second award. You: ? www.training.sfahq.com/ www.lejeune.usmc.mil/soi/ https://www.benning.army.mil/infantry/ www.sigarmsacademy.com/ academy.smith-wesson.com/ www.glocktraining.com/ www.blackwaterusa.com/ www.thunderranchinc.com/ www.gunsite.com All these people wasting their time training. If they only knew that shot placement and training won't make a difference "when the lead starts flying"... |