Posted: 8/29/2015 10:52:38 PM EDT
| My buddy is looking for a small .22 for his wife to carry. I tried to talk him out of it but he's set on a .22. The only small .22 I can think of that is decent is the Beretta 21A. Am I missing something else? How are the Taurus copies? |
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I have a beretta 21 but mine is a 25 not a 22. Have several friends with the 22 version. While not my number one carry gun of choice there are times with various wardrobes it is the only thing practical. I will say two things based on my experience with several of these:
1) exceedingly reliable 2) very accurate for a small gun I can hold sub five inch 25 yard groups easily , at 7-10 yards in rapid fire I hold groups on a post it note. Can't ask much more out of such a small gun! |
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Be careful thinking small for a Woman, esp. one new to shooting. I did that with my wife. She promptly failed to qualify for her concealed carry license with it. I let her look at all my pistols, and she liked my S&W M-66 best. About that time a friend of ours had a S&W M-686 for sale. She saw it & wanted it. So we got it for her, let her practice on our outdoor range. She took it back to the qualification part of the class, and passed it. I got her a Glock 26 for Christmas that year, she likes, and can shoot it very well.
she doesn't carry much, but when she does, it is the G26. Just my thoughts. Good Luck, Mark |
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Quoted:
My buddy is looking for a small .22 for his wife to carry. I tried to talk him out of it but he's set on a .22. The only small .22 I can think of that is decent is the Beretta 21A. Am I missing something else? How are the Taurus copies? The Ruger .22 LCR 8 shot revolver is the answer you seek. The small semi-autos require an amount of familiarity and training for a novice to become competent with- heck, for anyone. I am betting your friend's wife will just throw it in her purse and forget about it. For that contingency, a revolver would be best. All she has to do it point and pull the trigger. |
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Quoted:
The Ruger .22 LCR 8 shot revolver is the answer you seek. The small semi-autos require an amount of familiarity and training for a novice to become competent with- heck, for anyone. I am betting your friend's wife will just throw it in her purse and forget about it. For that contingency, a revolver would be best. All she has to do it point and pull the trigger. Quoted:
Quoted:
My buddy is looking for a small .22 for his wife to carry. I tried to talk him out of it but he's set on a .22. The only small .22 I can think of that is decent is the Beretta 21A. Am I missing something else? How are the Taurus copies? The Ruger .22 LCR 8 shot revolver is the answer you seek. The small semi-autos require an amount of familiarity and training for a novice to become competent with- heck, for anyone. I am betting your friend's wife will just throw it in her purse and forget about it. For that contingency, a revolver would be best. All she has to do it point and pull the trigger. I second this guys thoughts . I am a tried and true S&W guy , and they offer several nice 22lr (and 22mag) j frame revolvers but the LCR is a very nice revolver which I believe is cheaper than the S&W offerings. Point and shoot - gotta like it |
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Quoted:
The Ruger .22 LCR 8 shot revolver is the answer you seek. The small semi-autos require an amount of familiarity and training for a novice to become competent with- heck, for anyone. I am betting your friend's wife will just throw it in her purse and forget about it. For that contingency, a revolver would be best. All she has to do it point and pull the trigger. Quoted:
Quoted:
My buddy is looking for a small .22 for his wife to carry. I tried to talk him out of it but he's set on a .22. The only small .22 I can think of that is decent is the Beretta 21A. Am I missing something else? How are the Taurus copies? The Ruger .22 LCR 8 shot revolver is the answer you seek. The small semi-autos require an amount of familiarity and training for a novice to become competent with- heck, for anyone. I am betting your friend's wife will just throw it in her purse and forget about it. For that contingency, a revolver would be best. All she has to do it point and pull the trigger. Had one. Accuracy was abysmal. Got rid of it. Granted snubbies aren't noted as tack drivers but the LCR 22 was the worst shooting snubbie I've ever owned. |
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If they are absolutely set on a .22 semi automatic pistol my wife's Ruger SR22 has been excellent although for her, it's only a range toy.
Its accurate, and as reliable as the ammunition you can find these days, and it actually might make a nice carry gun if not for the .22 lr. it can be safely carried with the decocker/safety in the "safe position" or with the decocker/safety in the "fire" position as shown in the picture,which makes it, in effect, a DA/SA pistol with a heavy trigger pull for the first round. The problem with small.22 J Frame self defense revolver types is the heavy trigger pull, but of course if you get a dud, another pull of the trigger sets up another round. The SR22 has second strike capability but a bad round of.22 is often likely to remain a dud. 
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if you are not familiar with the Beretta 21A... the tip up barrel allows the chamber to be loaded/unloaded without working the slide... it does not have an extractor, just straight blow back... the hammer shape allows it to be easily thumb cocked if you want, though the double action is pretty smooth... ...it is fatter than it needs to be, but very comfortable to shoot... mine is very accurate
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Toro... I have an early (without the hammer nose safety notch) NAA in .22lr... it is very easy to "heel" the pistol, making the shots go high... with work, I can keep shots on the head of a USPSA target at 5m ( I like to be able to shoot head shots at 3x that distance with my pocket pistols), but wouldn't count on my first one from pocket to do so...note that the rim does not have the notches for the firing pin nose like the newer pistols... it was a gift from a very good friend years ago, so I'll keep it, but I have better options.... you will probably shoot one much better than I ... good luck
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Women and guns are highly over rated projects unless they handle, shoot, and pick themselves.
Noteworthy opinions I hold: 1). I have a S&W M&P340 .357, a 351C .22RFM, and a 43 .22LR. The 351C and 43 have pathetically heavy triggers that make them a bear to shoot. The 340 is wonderful. The difference is the heavier hammer strike needed for the .22s. Avoid them. 2). Caliber for caliber, the Ruger LCRs are far better values and far easier to shoot more accurately. They have a smoother lighter by 2# trigger pull and are a relative joy. 2a). Short LCR .38 shooting review post: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_32/158221_LCR__38_Special__P_Review.html 3). For the .22s, in a revolver, use Hornady's Critical Defense .22RFM. In. .22LR, CCI Velocitor with the dimple front end. Feeds and goes flat but hangs together. 4). Have a Ruger SR22P which is a plain joy to shoot and 100% reliable with CCI products. 4a). SR22P set up test post: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_4/148288_Beginner_Level_Set_Up_Of_A_New_Pistol.html 5). Have a Walther PP .22LR which is wonderfully accurate, heavy to carry, and has a horrible trigger reset with no feel. 6). Have a Beretta M21 .22LR which is small, a little thick, works 100% with CCI MiniMag and Blazer, and is accurate for its size. The tip up barrel avoids all the slide issues and makes clearing it easy. The spring system on each side eventually cracks the nylon grips. But not the wood ones which are a tad thicker. Keep to the "standard" .22LR high velocity ammo since the hyper velocity stuff works the slide too vigorously. Very good choice in general. 7). But for a really class little .22LR, find a M34 or 63 with a 2" barrel. The steel frame doesn't need extra power hammer springs and they always work to the limit of your .22LR ammo. Most expensive option mentioned here. 8). But if your "buddies" wife really wants a gun, recommend a SR22P so that she can learn to shoot or any K frame Smith .22LR. When she can shoot, recommend a Glock 19 or a Smith M10 2" Round Butt .38 Special. Skip the little hard to shoot (for most women) guns and get (sorry recommend) something useful and powerful enough to work. (Unless his girlfriend is like my wife. More than .22LR or .22RFM kicks too much.) 9). One and done. Really though, a S&W Shield 9mm is as good as it gets for a person who really wants a gun. With the Hornady 100 grain 9mm Pink Box Lite ammo, if that is too much recoil, they don't want a gun. 10). Avoid any thing as small as the M21 in centerfire of any caliber unless you want to turn them off to shooting entirely. This is the silly BodyGuard .380, Kahrs of most varieties, any of the .380/9mm mini/micro/lightweight and so ons. Few people ever learn to shoot them well enough for them to be useful. 11). I would admit a Beretta Tomcat in .32acp might just, might just have some utility if it worked dependably. Never shot one or tried one. 12). Skip Taurus guns unless you want headaches about the time you think it is broken in. If you want something that looks like a Beretta, buy one. If you want something that looks like a S&W, buy one. 13). I know for a fact that that little easy to use Beretta M21 beats squeaking, "help me, help me", while some evil doer has his way. 14). Easy comparison of Shield size single stack 9mm and Beretta M21 .22LR. Twice the weight and a lot more size. Same base width in the two holsters shows the relative size. Add 3/8" if you use the 8 shot Shield magazine that extends the grip. 
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Anyone have firsthand experience with the NAA 22lr Mini? I have a weird itch to get one for $200 http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2013/09/18/2129735_04_north_american_arms_naa_1_22lr_640.jpg Just bought one in .22 Mag. It is my pocket carry, daily. |
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Trust me guys, I get and have made most of these points already. He's stuck on the small .22 semi. Tell him to man up and get a 9mm 
I started my wife off with a Ruger SR22 and she loves it. After she got more familiar and used to that she shot her friends p238 and had to have it. Now that she has been shooting that suddenly my 9mm M&P's don't kick as bad as she thought... Now she wants a p938. |
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I've had reliability issues with 3 of 4 Beretta 21As. The round tends to jam tip-up toward the ceilin of the chamber.
One big 22A gunsmith who threads the barrels told me to open up the magazine feed-lols. Another 22A gunsmith who threads barrels told me to pinch the magazine feed lips closed. -- I do regret selling that last one, but it's hard to trust it (when the SR22 has been 100% reliable and sounds better suppressed). -- I think an SR22 with a +3 follower and filled with CCI solid point mini-mags (which go almost as fast as Velocitors out of sub 4.5" barrels, and will penetrate deeper since they don't open up), would be plenty for most people. If the bad guy is armed, I'd certainly rather have something bigger, but a 22lr beats not having anything. I DO like the pink Hornady line of reduced recoil stuff for people who are scared of recoil. |
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A few thoughts on the subject.
1. In terms of reliable .22 LR pistols, the old standby Walther and Manuhrin made, /Interarms imported PP .22LR [pistols are well made, reliable pistols and are a joy to shoot. The DA trigger pull is a bit heavy initially but after a bit of practice you won't even notice it. One limitation is that the 10 round magazine is really just an 8 round magazine if reliability is important. Excellent condition examples sell for a fair bit of money - around $1000 for a Walther marked pistol - but I've seen mechanically perfect examples with some finish wear dropping them to very good condition, in the $500 range. It's heresy to say it but the more recent Umarex / Walther PPK/S .22LR is just as reliable, almost as accurate, and the magazine design is much better and will reliably handle a full 10 rounds. Below is a the British L66A1 version of the Walther PP in .22LR, above an Umarex Walther PPK/S in .22 LR. 
2. Getting suitable reliability in a .22LR pistol will require some experimentation with quality ammo to find a brand that functions extremely well in your pistol. Even when you find a brand of .22 LR ammo that is reliable in a suitable concealed carry .22LR pistol, you still have the issue that rim fire cartridges lack the inherent reliability you want in a self defense cartridge. 3. The .32 ACP cartridge is very pleasant to shoot in a PP sized pistol and it offers the inherent reliability of a center fire round, it hold the same 8 rounds as a PP in .22LR, and with good choice of load it will offer terminal ballistics that are not too far behind the .380 ACP - with equal penetration and only a slightly smaller wound channel. The 60 gr XTP at around 1000-1050 fps isn't a bad choice. A 73 gr FMJ load at around 950 fps is still a much more effective round than the .22 LR. A Manuhrin made PP in .32 ACP (7.65 Browning) is pretty common and you and find on in excellent condition for around $600. You can also find the FEG AP series pistols in 7.65 Browning for around $350 in excellent condition. The AP7S is a steel frame PP clone and the APK7S is a steel frame PPK/S clone. They have a little heavier frames and the extra weight makes them even more pleasant to shoot. In my experience the Interarms marked examples are extremely well made and are very reliable. You can also find them in .380 ACP as the AP9S and APK9S respectively. An FEG AP above a Manuhrin made Walther PP: 
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