Posted: 4/3/2012 9:33:39 PM EDT
| When comparing the Springfield TRP to the FBI Professional model- what does one have and do better then the other? |
|
The last I was aware .......... The Professional is hand built by a single Master Gunsmith. The TRP is a production assembly that gets some hand fitting. The TRP uses a two piece FLGR, the Pro does not. The Pro uses a SA magwell, the TRP does not. The TRP uses the SA ILS, the Pro does not. The TRP uses extensive MIM parts, the Pro does not. The Pro is finished in Black T, the TRP is not. |
|
Couple things to add to this:
The magwell on the Pro is blended to the frame, the TRP is not. Also the Pro magwell is 1 piece, TRP is 2 piece The Pro has a flush-cut slide stop No front cocking serrations on the Pro Hand checkering on the Pro vs machine checkering on the TRP (I have a hard time telling the difference) Pro tends to be more tightly fitted Pro uses actual Novak sights, while I'm pretty sure the TRP sights are not true Novaks Quoted:
The last I was aware .......... The Professional is hand built by a single Master Gunsmith. The TRP is a production assembly that gets some hand fitting. The TRP uses a two piece FLGR, the Pro does not. The Pro uses a SA magwell, the TRP does not. The TRP uses the SA ILS, the Pro does not. The TRP uses extensive MIM parts, the Pro does not. The Pro is finished in Black T, the TRP is not. |
|
The Professional,written by Charlie Cutshaw,good read for those interested in the Professional by Springfield.
There are many manufacturers of the classic M1911 pistol for what seems to be an endless market, but Springfield Armory has established an enviable reputation as a producer of high-quality, reliable M1911 pistols. Springfield Armory pistols are used by the FBI Hostage Rescue Team and their regional SWAT teams, and also by many other federal and local special operations units. Elite Marine Corps special operations units use M1911s built largely from Springfield Armory components. A recent photo from Iraq shows a special operations Marine holding his MEU-SOC (Marine Expeditionary Unit-Special Operations Capable) .45 on Iraqi prisoners with a Springfield Armory logo clearly visible on the slide. Every U.S. military special operations organization continues to employ the venerable M1911, many of them Springfield Armory pistols. The FBI uses Springfield Armory M1911A1 pistols almost exclusively, as does the U.S. Marshals Special Operations Group. When the FBI decided that it required an M1911-type pistol for its regional SWAT teams, it issued a request for procurement (RFP). The RFP was for a 5,000-unit order, but once the lucrative contract was set, any government agency would be able to buy direct from it without going through a lengthy procurement process. There was no specific manufacturer in mind; the FBI issued what is called a “performance requirement” that simply lists specific performance standards that must be met by the successful bidder. In the case of the FBI pistol, the criteria were extremely stringent. In addition to features found in most custom M1911s, the FBI raised the bar to standards that only the finest firearm could meet. The new pistol was required to feed almost any hollow point cartridge, although Remington Golden Saber and Federal Hydra Shok were specified. Our test shooting revealed that Springfield’s FBI pistol, designated “Professional Model” for commercial sales, reliably fed any hollow point, flat nose or semi-wadcutter cartridge we could find. The trigger pull was initially specified to be 5 to 6.5 pounds, but the requirement has since been changed to 4.5 pounds. Our test pistol was slightly outside the specification, with an average trigger pull of only 4 pounds, but broke like the proverbial “glass rod” without creep or backlash. The new pistol was required to carry a 50,000-round warranty. The accuracy requirement, however, was yet another requirement that bordered on the impossible. This stipulated that the pistol fire three consecutive 10-shot groups no larger than 1.5 inches at 25 yards from a Ransom Rest using service ammunition. The pistol then had 20,000 rounds fired through it and was again tested for accuracy. No more than a 15% accuracy reduction was permitted. A single stoppage over 2,500 rounds disqualified a pistol from the competition. Several notable manufacturers of 1911 type pistols submitted bids and test pistols, but when the testing was completed, only Springfield’s candidate met the performance criteria and the rest, as the old saying goes, is history. Springfield originally designated all pistols built to the FBI standard “Bureau Model,” but the FBI protested, so the name was changed to Professional Model. All Professional Model pistols, whether for government issue or commercial sale, are identical and carry the serial number prefix “CRG.” The Springfield Armory FBI pistol is an unqualified success, but what makes this pistol arguably the premier production M1911in the country? First impressions lead one to think that the FBI Pistol looks to all the world like any custom M1911, but the devil is in the details, and it is the details that make the Springfield Armory Professional Model arguably superior to almost any other. Each pistol has every component fitted to the closest tolerances possible while maintaining reliability and accuracy. Each Professional Model begins with a forged Springfield frame and slide. Only the best components are used to assemble the pistol: Nowlin barrel, Novak tritium sights, a Wilson “Bullet Proof” extractor, Videcki trigger and ambidextrous safety. All of these components are available “off the shelf,” but it is how Springfield’s Custom Shop builds each pistol that makes them special. When the shooter disassembles the pistol, he finds that each major component—barrel, barrel bushing, slide stop and slide—is numbered with the last three digits of the pistol’s serial number. None of these components will fit any other pistol. The ambidextrous safety is slightly narrower on the right so it doesn’t “bite” the shooter’s knuckle like some others, or worse, be forced up into the “safe” position which could cause one to have a VERY bad day in a gunfight. The slide stop pin is slightly recessed into the right side of the frame so it cannot be inadvertently pressed, thereby immobilizing the slide, another “show stopper” in a crisis. The slide fits the frame with absolute perfection—there is no discernable play, and the slide feels as if it were moving on ball bearings. The front and back straps are checkered with 20 lines per inch checkering to ensure positive grip. For easy tactical magazine changes, the Professional Model comes with an extended magazine guide, fully contoured to the frame and grips. The magazine release is slightly extended for positive release. Needless to say, mags drop free every time. Each Professional Model, like its FBI counterpart, is equipped with six Metalform seven-round magazines, each with an extended rubber bumper pad for positive insertion. The seven-round mags are our only real complaint about the pistol. Many consider eight-round magazines to be less reliable than their smaller capacity brethren, but we have never had a stoppage with our eight-round magazines. After we decided that we just had to have the Professional Model and made arrangements to purchase it, we ordered six Cobramags manufactured by Tripp Research. These magazines are the most significant improvements in 1911 magazines since the pistol was introduced. Strong words, but these magazines have so many improvements over any other that the list is really too long for inclusion here. Most significant is the positioning of the cartridge .080 higher than any other magazine. This puts the cartridge in almost a direct line with the chamber. The follower is reinforced with stainless steel at the slide stop interface to prevent failure. The eight-round magazines are designed from the outset as such, and are not converted seven-round magazines like most others. The feed lips have also been modified for enhanced reliability. The list goes on, but the message is clear—if your life depends on your M1911, regardless of manufacturer, have a Cobramag up the magazine well and a couple of more in reserve. It is difficult to describe in words just how “right” every aspect of Springfield’s Professional Model is. The slide is incredibly smooth. The trigger pull is remarkably consistent, varying no more than a few tenths of an ounce. With its Black T finish as specified by the FBI, the Professional Model also looks right. Best of all, the pistol shoots! In a word, the Professional Model is synergistic, with its parts all working in concert to achieve a result that is greater than their sum, a tribute to the craftsmen at the Springfield Custom Shop who build these outstanding handguns. Since the 1911 was introduced so many years ago, many pistols have come and gone, but the 1911 endures. |
|
Quoted:
Couple things to add to this: The magwell on the Pro is blended to the frame, the TRP is not. Also the Pro magwell is 1 piece, TRP is 2 piece The Pro has a flush-cut slide stop No front cocking serrations on the Pro Hand checkering on the Pro vs machine checkering on the TRP (I have a hard time telling the difference) Pro tends to be more tightly fitted Pro uses actual Novak sights, while I'm pretty sure the TRP sights are not true Novaks Quoted:
The last I was aware .......... The Professional is hand built by a single Master Gunsmith. The TRP is a production assembly that gets some hand fitting. The TRP uses a two piece FLGR, the Pro does not. The Pro uses a SA magwell, the TRP does not. The TRP uses the SA ILS, the Pro does not. The TRP uses extensive MIM parts, the Pro does not. The Pro is finished in Black T, the TRP is not. I dont think the current runs of Pros have handcut checkering. It has all the signs of being machined. I have owned a TRP, ran a lot of rounds through it. I now own a Professional Operator. I can tell you the Professional is a much better 1911, but it costs a shitload more and if you dont want raped, the wait is better than a year. Closer to a year and a half. Accuracy with the TRP is pretty well ho hum. The Pro is Les Baer accurate. The 5.5lb trigger sounds crazy in the Pro but it doesnt feel like it because of how well the parts are fit. Much nicer than the factory TRP triggers. The TRP has very little fitting, its done by what Springfield called Technicians, not gunsmiths. The Pro is just smooth, you dont feel the upper lugs drag when you cycle the slide. I cant remember the exact faults I had found in my TRP. Toolmarks, come chatter where they broached the magazine well. The trigger was heavy, and a bit of creep. I remember the passenger side thumbsafety got sloppy at the first real range session where I was using it. My Pro didnt show up perfect though either, the thumbsafety didnt have enough of a teardrop filed into it for the detent. Which caused a springy pedal when off, thats went away with some wear. The other thing that pisses me off is I had to drift the sight a touch because it shot left of center to the tune of an inch at 25yds. ETA I think the Pro is still a bargain so long as you dont pay the scalpers prices, I dont think the TRP is the bargain it used to be. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Couple things to add to this: The magwell on the Pro is blended to the frame, the TRP is not. Also the Pro magwell is 1 piece, TRP is 2 piece The Pro has a flush-cut slide stop No front cocking serrations on the Pro Hand checkering on the Pro vs machine checkering on the TRP (I have a hard time telling the difference) Pro tends to be more tightly fitted Pro uses actual Novak sights, while I'm pretty sure the TRP sights are not true Novaks Quoted:
The last I was aware .......... The Professional is hand built by a single Master Gunsmith. The TRP is a production assembly that gets some hand fitting. The TRP uses a two piece FLGR, the Pro does not. The Pro uses a SA magwell, the TRP does not. The TRP uses the SA ILS, the Pro does not. The TRP uses extensive MIM parts, the Pro does not. The Pro is finished in Black T, the TRP is not. I dont think the current runs of Pros have handcut checkering. It has all the signs of being machined. I have owned a TRP, ran a lot of rounds through it. I now own a Professional Operator. I can tell you the Professional is a much better 1911, but it costs a shitload more and if you dont want raped, the wait is better than a year. Closer to a year and a half. Accuracy with the TRP is pretty well ho hum. The Pro is Les Baer accurate. The 5.5lb trigger sounds crazy in the Pro but it doesnt feel like it because of how well the parts are fit. Much nicer than the factory TRP triggers. The TRP has very little fitting, its done by what Springfield called Technicians, not gunsmiths. The Pro is just smooth, you dont feel the upper lugs drag when you cycle the slide. I cant remember the exact faults I had found in my TRP. Toolmarks, come chatter where they broached the magazine well. The trigger was heavy, and a bit of creep. I remember the passenger side thumbsafety got sloppy at the first real range session where I was using it. My Pro didnt show up perfect though either, the thumbsafety didnt have enough of a teardrop filed into it for the detent. Which caused a springy pedal when off, thats went away with some wear. The other thing that pisses me off is I had to drift the sight a touch because it shot left of center to the tune of an inch at 25yds. ETA I think the Pro is still a bargain so long as you dont pay the scalpers prices, I dont think the TRP is the bargain it used to be. How old is/was your TRP? It sounds nothing like the one I picked up last fall. |
|
Quoted:
How old is/was your TRP? It sounds nothing like the one I picked up last fall. I cant remember, I think I got it in 2007 or 08, it was back when they were 1200 bucks. My friend has it now, and it was nothing close to stock when I sold it to him. He still has it so I doubt you got my old one. 
Heres a pic. 
|
|
Quoted:
The way you describe the TRP sounds like you are talking about my Loaded when compared to my TRP. Sorry I misread your post, I thought you thought you might have ended up with mine.
Thats probably how it goes, the TRP is a notch above the Loaded, and the Professional is a notch above the TRP. Too bad each notch doubles the price.
|
|
Quoted:
I am 100% happy with my TRP. Very accurate so far. I would love to have a real PRO someday though. Mine was a pretty nice 1911 too, it was just a matter of a good friend wanting it and my Brown and Baer came in. After shooting them the TRP just gathered dust and I turned it into ammo for the Executive Elite and TRS. |
|
Quoted:
all this talk has made me batshit crazy for a Pro. i have space on a card for this. granted, the topic is trp-pro but do we all agree the Pro is the best? period? thanks. I agree.......thats why im counting my months......3 behind and 12 to go for my Pro to come home and join my collection of 1911's..... |
|
Quoted:
all this talk has made me batshit crazy for a Pro. i have space on a card for this. granted, the topic is trp-pro but do we all agree the Pro is the best? period? thanks. Best compared to what? Its better than the TRP which it should be for the price difference. But when you compare it to Baer, Wilson, Brown etc in that price range, Id say were talking even ground. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
all this talk has made me batshit crazy for a Pro. i have space on a card for this. granted, the topic is trp-pro but do we all agree the Pro is the best? period? thanks. Best compared to what? Its better than the TRP which it should be for the price difference. But when you compare it to Baer, Wilson, Brown etc in that price range, Id say were talking even ground. From experience of owning three Baers,Baer's DON'T match up to a Professional.I currently own 1911's from Wilson,Nighthawk,Ed Brown plus a bunch of less expensive 1911's......My Baers were NEVER reliable period.All the other 1911's worked right from day one out of the box,dont fall for the bullshit story that you have to run 500 thru 1500 rounds for it to be reliable,oh- and i did runover 1500 rounds thru all three and was told to run another 1000-gone.A $2000 1911 built right should work without issue with out needing all that ammo thru them.All my 1911's past and present(over 100) have worked out of the box...except for Para's and Baers. Like i said in another post,my lowly $200 Llama always went bang when i pulled the trigger from day one...the Baers did not........ Read thru enough guns websights and you'll see im not the only one,a 1911 you cant rack the slide means your out of the game also.....been there. Ive played quite a bit with a Professional before ordering another one,Baer doesnt compare....... |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
all this talk has made me batshit crazy for a Pro. i have space on a card for this. granted, the topic is trp-pro but do we all agree the Pro is the best? period? thanks. Best compared to what? Its better than the TRP which it should be for the price difference. But when you compare it to Baer, Wilson, Brown etc in that price range, Id say were talking even ground. From experience of owning three Baers,Baer's DON'T match up to a Professional.I currently own 1911's from Wilson,Nighthawk,Ed Brown plus a bunch of less expensive 1911's......My Baers were NEVER reliable period.All the other 1911's worked right from day one out of the box,dont fall for the bullshit story that you have to run 500 thru 1500 rounds for it to be reliable,oh- and i did runover 1500 rounds thru all three and was told to run another 1000-gone.A $2000 1911 built right should work without issue with out needing all that ammo thru them.All my 1911's past and present(over 100) have worked out of the box...except for Para's and Baers. Like i said in another post,my lowly $200 Llama always went bang when i pulled the trigger from day one...the Baers did not........ Read thru enough guns websights and you'll see im not the only one,a 1911 you cant rack the slide means your out of the game also.....been there. Ive played quite a bit with a Professional before ordering another one,Baer doesnt compare....... Whatever dude, unless you post a pic of you and your 3 Baers I call bullshit. And I own a Pro and a Baer, have friends that own Pros and Baers. The Pro is an awesome 1911 for sure, but if you take away the backstory I doubt you would have the worshippers. I mean look at the SA Custom Carry, its built with the same philosophy, just different options. You dont see a hundred threads about it, or people dreaming they owned one. |
|
I mean look at the SA Custom Carry, its built with the same philosophy, just different options. You dont see a hundred threads about it, or people dreaming they owned one.
SA Custom Carry is built by the people that build the Pro,not by Baer.Dave Williams has his guns built to his standards,different then Baer.Id take the SA Custom Carry. When i buy pistols i dont go taking pictures of me with them,i buy them to shoot them....im still pissed cause i lost my ass in selling them. I fell for the Hype,and jumped the gun and bought three.....was an agravating experience.... Id still recommend any other semi-custom maker over baer...cause you stand a better chance of them working right out of the box than a Baer.The Baer might be much more accurate,does you no good when it doesnt go Bang ! |
|
And I own a Pro and a Baer, have friends that own Pros and Baers.
Since you have both,one has the slide and frame fitted more like JMB designed it to be fitted,one -lets just say-different. Ive had both at same time-times three.....so i know if im getting bs'd.And ive compared this with all my wilsons,Nighthawks,ed browns,colts,springers and the lowly llama. And of all.......one was unique.......in the way it was fitted. If you have a Baer and any other brand 1911,prefferably a semi custom just to keep things evened up. With 1911 unloaded,chamber empty and hammer cocked back.Feel the side to side play of slide front and back to frame,then feel the up and down play of slide to frame front and back.You may have no play,little play or a bit more play,no big deal.But get a good feel of what you have. Now,remove slide assy off the frame,remove barrel and bushing,recoil parts out of slide.Slide the empty slide back on the frame and now feel the slide to frame fit keeping in mind what you felt before with a fully assembled slide earlier.Feel front up and down,rear up and down and front and rear side to side...... Compare the the difference in feel of the baer before and after slide parts removed....and on second 1911 compare the difference of before and after also..... Id really like for someone with a tight Baer to post what they feel......i'll let some feed back come in on this......you might discover Baers secret.... |
|
Ive seen one pop up in an Az forum last week for $2200...was snatched up in first 30 minutes.... Have seen used ones in last 6 months pop up a few times,low of $2200 and high of $2650 used at gunslingers.... All the new ones seem to be around $3000 and up......retail from springfield is 2650.00 new.With a 15 month wait right now. OP,didn mean to hijack your thread with Pro versus Baer above,but you might see why a Pro is a much better choice. Some honest answers might make a few scratch their heads..... |
|
Quoted:
coltnut, how would i order one from SA? call them up? deposit or complete payment? Find a local gunshop that you trust,that is a Springfield Armory dealer.Have them order it for you as the Pro has to be ordered by a dealer. If they are honest,you'll pay the retail price plus tax.If you have buddies,you might get it for less. Springfield does not require a deposit on the Pro,but your lgs might.They may work out a payment plan for you for the 15 months it takes or take payment when it is received.I havent heard of anyone asking for full payment up front. Check with a few of your local guns stores and ask what their requirements are for ordering one.Because of the length of time,id look for shops that have been around for some time and also one that has had the same people for some time. Also,id send an e-mail to migunslingers.com ,they may be able to order it for you,they require $100 deposit to order custom guns and they make payment plans for guns ordered by them.A 15 month wait equals to a 15 month payment plan,makes it easier to afford it.....good luck if you order one. |
..... I picked mine up for $1040.00 a few years back ..... 
|
Quoted:
WHat is a good price on a Pro? not being scalped... Mine was $2435 shipped from George at Gunslingers. You can do a Google search for MI Gunslingers and find his website. He has a standing order for a bunch of them, but a waiting list too. You can put a deposit on one if you want and make payments to him. I cant remember how long it took for my Operator to get in, but I know it was more than a year. But I also didnt think it would show up til this summer. And dont mind SGB, he just loves to rub that "I paid a hair over a grand for my Pro" shit in deep.
ETA I dont think George does a layaway on the Pro. |
|
Quoted:
And I own a Pro and a Baer, have friends that own Pros and Baers.
Since you have both,one has the slide and frame fitted more like JMB designed it to be fitted,one -lets just say-different. Ive had both at same time-times three.....so i know if im getting bs'd.And ive compared this with all my wilsons,Nighthawks,ed browns,colts,springers and the lowly llama. And of all.......one was unique.......in the way it was fitted. If you have a Baer and any other brand 1911,prefferably a semi custom just to keep things evened up. With 1911 unloaded,chamber empty and hammer cocked back.Feel the side to side play of slide front and back to frame,then feel the up and down play of slide to frame front and back.You may have no play,little play or a bit more play,no big deal.But get a good feel of what you have. Now,remove slide assy off the frame,remove barrel and bushing,recoil parts out of slide.Slide the empty slide back on the frame and now feel the slide to frame fit keeping in mind what you felt before with a fully assembled slide earlier.Feel front up and down,rear up and down and front and rear side to side...... Compare the the difference in feel of the baer before and after slide parts removed....and on second 1911 compare the difference of before and after also..... Id really like for someone with a tight Baer to post what they feel......i'll let some feed back come in on this......you might discover Baers secret.... Im kind of lost, now you own a Pro? Id also love to see a pic of all your Nighthawks, Wilsons, Browns. |
|
Quoted:
And I own a Pro and a Baer, have friends that own Pros and Baers.
Since you have both,one has the slide and frame fitted more like JMB designed it to be fitted,one -lets just say-different. Ive had both at same time-times three.....so i know if im getting bs'd.And ive compared this with all my wilsons,Nighthawks,ed browns,colts,springers and the lowly llama. And of all.......one was unique.......in the way it was fitted. If you have a Baer and any other brand 1911,prefferably a semi custom just to keep things evened up. With 1911 unloaded,chamber empty and hammer cocked back.Feel the side to side play of slide front and back to frame,then feel the up and down play of slide to frame front and back.You may have no play,little play or a bit more play,no big deal.But get a good feel of what you have. Now,remove slide assy off the frame,remove barrel and bushing,recoil parts out of slide.Slide the empty slide back on the frame and now feel the slide to frame fit keeping in mind what you felt before with a fully assembled slide earlier.Feel front up and down,rear up and down and front and rear side to side...... Compare the the difference in feel of the baer before and after slide parts removed....and on second 1911 compare the difference of before and after also..... Id really like for someone with a tight Baer to post what they feel......i'll let some feed back come in on this......you might discover Baers secret.... Wow. I didn't realize Baers were such crap. 
|
| They aren't. I believe that Baer's are the best value for their money in the 1911 world. If you shop around their basic model can be had for $1500, and it will out shoot a $2500 Wilson. Still, if I was looking to spend the money a Pro costs, I would just buy the Pro, there is a small resale market on them and they tend to hold their value better than any other 1911 I have seen. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
And I own a Pro and a Baer, have friends that own Pros and Baers.
Since you have both,one has the slide and frame fitted more like JMB designed it to be fitted,one -lets just say-different. Ive had both at same time-times three.....so i know if im getting bs'd.And ive compared this with all my wilsons,Nighthawks,ed browns,colts,springers and the lowly llama. And of all.......one was unique.......in the way it was fitted. If you have a Baer and any other brand 1911,prefferably a semi custom just to keep things evened up. With 1911 unloaded,chamber empty and hammer cocked back.Feel the side to side play of slide front and back to frame,then feel the up and down play of slide to frame front and back.You may have no play,little play or a bit more play,no big deal.But get a good feel of what you have. Now,remove slide assy off the frame,remove barrel and bushing,recoil parts out of slide.Slide the empty slide back on the frame and now feel the slide to frame fit keeping in mind what you felt before with a fully assembled slide earlier.Feel front up and down,rear up and down and front and rear side to side...... Compare the the difference in feel of the baer before and after slide parts removed....and on second 1911 compare the difference of before and after also..... Id really like for someone with a tight Baer to post what they feel......i'll let some feed back come in on this......you might discover Baers secret.... Wow. I didn't realize Baers were such crap.
The only reason I dont ignore his posts is in case someone new to 1911s reads it and believes it. |
|
Just wanted to stop in and tell the OP.
I went outside to my little range for a short steel shooting session. I took the Pro, an older worked over 442 J-Frame, my G22 and my S&W MP9 out. I wanted to get 250 rounds of HSTs through it with the mags that came with it. Still working on that, but anyway the my Pro Operator is just plain sweet. It really stands out compared to what else I took out. More than I would have noticed with a regular production 1911. It loves the 12" @ 100yd gong. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
And I own a Pro and a Baer, have friends that own Pros and Baers.
Since you have both,one has the slide and frame fitted more like JMB designed it to be fitted,one -lets just say-different. Ive had both at same time-times three.....so i know if im getting bs'd.And ive compared this with all my wilsons,Nighthawks,ed browns,colts,springers and the lowly llama. And of all.......one was unique.......in the way it was fitted. If you have a Baer and any other brand 1911,prefferably a semi custom just to keep things evened up. With 1911 unloaded,chamber empty and hammer cocked back.Feel the side to side play of slide front and back to frame,then feel the up and down play of slide to frame front and back.You may have no play,little play or a bit more play,no big deal.But get a good feel of what you have. Now,remove slide assy off the frame,remove barrel and bushing,recoil parts out of slide.Slide the empty slide back on the frame and now feel the slide to frame fit keeping in mind what you felt before with a fully assembled slide earlier.Feel front up and down,rear up and down and front and rear side to side...... Compare the the difference in feel of the baer before and after slide parts removed....and on second 1911 compare the difference of before and after also..... Id really like for someone with a tight Baer to post what they feel......i'll let some feed back come in on this......you might discover Baers secret.... Wow. I didn't realize Baers were such crap.
While not all Baers are crap,in the semi-custom end,you stand a better chance of getting a crappy 1911 if you go with Baer. To new 1911 buyers,buy a Baer at your own risk of getting a gun that wont fire,then be told that you need to fire 500 to 1000 rounds thru it..and when that doesnt work...be ready to be told to fire another 500 thru 1000 rounds again.....all in the name of breakin in.....you wont hear this from any other other 1911 maker... Read thru different forums and you'l hear this bullshit story over and over again about Baer.....but not any other manufacturer. How do i know....i went thru it,I had three Baers..and Guess what,They were CRAP ! |
|
Quoted: Really? Cause the Wilson CQB that I owned had problems out the box. It didn't smooth out until I had several hundred rounds through it. I was told that was normal by CS.Quoted: Quoted: And I own a Pro and a Baer, have friends that own Pros and Baers. Since you have both,one has the slide and frame fitted more like JMB designed it to be fitted,one -lets just say-different. Ive had both at same time-times three.....so i know if im getting bs'd.And ive compared this with all my wilsons,Nighthawks,ed browns,colts,springers and the lowly llama. And of all.......one was unique.......in the way it was fitted. If you have a Baer and any other brand 1911,prefferably a semi custom just to keep things evened up. With 1911 unloaded,chamber empty and hammer cocked back.Feel the side to side play of slide front and back to frame,then feel the up and down play of slide to frame front and back.You may have no play,little play or a bit more play,no big deal.But get a good feel of what you have. Now,remove slide assy off the frame,remove barrel and bushing,recoil parts out of slide.Slide the empty slide back on the frame and now feel the slide to frame fit keeping in mind what you felt before with a fully assembled slide earlier.Feel front up and down,rear up and down and front and rear side to side...... Compare the the difference in feel of the baer before and after slide parts removed....and on second 1911 compare the difference of before and after also..... Id really like for someone with a tight Baer to post what they feel......i'll let some feed back come in on this......you might discover Baers secret.... Wow. I didn't realize Baers were such crap. While not all Baers are crap,in the semi-custom end,you stand a better chance of getting a crappy 1911 if you go with Baer. To new 1911 buyers,buy a Baer at your own risk of getting a gun that wont fire,then be told that you need to fire 500 to 1000 rounds thru it..and when that doesnt work...be ready to be told to fire another 500 thru 1000 rounds again.....all in the name of breakin in.....you wont hear this from any other other 1911 maker... Read thru different forums and you'l hear this bullshit story over and over again about Baer.....but not any other manufacturer. How do i know....i went thru it,I had three Baers..and Guess what,They were CRAP ! On the flip side my PII has run like a clock since day one. Anecdotes do not equal evidence. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Really? Cause the Wilson CQB that I owned had problems out the box. It didn't smooth out until I had several hundred rounds through it. I was told that was normal by CS.
Quoted:
Quoted:
And I own a Pro and a Baer, have friends that own Pros and Baers.
Since you have both,one has the slide and frame fitted more like JMB designed it to be fitted,one -lets just say-different. Ive had both at same time-times three.....so i know if im getting bs'd.And ive compared this with all my wilsons,Nighthawks,ed browns,colts,springers and the lowly llama. And of all.......one was unique.......in the way it was fitted. If you have a Baer and any other brand 1911,prefferably a semi custom just to keep things evened up. With 1911 unloaded,chamber empty and hammer cocked back.Feel the side to side play of slide front and back to frame,then feel the up and down play of slide to frame front and back.You may have no play,little play or a bit more play,no big deal.But get a good feel of what you have. Now,remove slide assy off the frame,remove barrel and bushing,recoil parts out of slide.Slide the empty slide back on the frame and now feel the slide to frame fit keeping in mind what you felt before with a fully assembled slide earlier.Feel front up and down,rear up and down and front and rear side to side...... Compare the the difference in feel of the baer before and after slide parts removed....and on second 1911 compare the difference of before and after also..... Id really like for someone with a tight Baer to post what they feel......i'll let some feed back come in on this......you might discover Baers secret.... Wow. I didn't realize Baers were such crap.
While not all Baers are crap,in the semi-custom end,you stand a better chance of getting a crappy 1911 if you go with Baer. To new 1911 buyers,buy a Baer at your own risk of getting a gun that wont fire,then be told that you need to fire 500 to 1000 rounds thru it..and when that doesnt work...be ready to be told to fire another 500 thru 1000 rounds again.....all in the name of breakin in.....you wont hear this from any other other 1911 maker... Read thru different forums and you'l hear this bullshit story over and over again about Baer.....but not any other manufacturer. How do i know....i went thru it,I had three Baers..and Guess what,They were CRAP ! On the flip side my PII has run like a clock since day one. Anecdotes do not equal evidence. Im curious what several hundred was thru the wilson? Wilson has outstanding customer service as does Springfiled-should the OP go for the Pro.They even cover shipping..............Baer does not.Ask me how i know. Glad your PII has worked great for you,it's the way it should be. Evidence you ask,buying three Baers at a cost of about $6000,and after putting over 4500+ rounds($1500+/-)thru the three combined and still the dam things not able to go thru one mag without some kind of malfunction...and then being told that i need to run another 500-1000 rounds more thru them.....thats Plenty evidence for me. Yes,it's not evidence for everyone else on here,but it does happen more than Baer lovers want to accept.And if this helps just one person from spending there money on a crappy Baer and instead putting it on a Springer Pro-so much better they'll be.Backed up by superior customer service -Springfield Custom Shop....and free shipping to Custom shop should warranty work be needed,your not just buying the gun,your buying the whole package......you may not need the warranty service,but it's so nice to know that if things dont work as they should,the maker has you covered.Fully covered that is. |
|
Quoted: Winchester White Box 230gr FMJ. I was getting alot of not returning all the way to batteries until I got a few hundred rounds through it. Maybe 400-500 or so... I never contacted CS about that specifically, because I understand that a break-in period on 1911s are not uncommon. I did however mention it to them in passing at a later date, but by that time it had already broken in and was no longer a concern. They said "yeah, its not unusual..."Quoted: Quoted: Really? Cause the Wilson CQB that I owned had problems out the box. It didn't smooth out until I had several hundred rounds through it. I was told that was normal by CS.Quoted: Quoted: And I own a Pro and a Baer, have friends that own Pros and Baers. Since you have both,one has the slide and frame fitted more like JMB designed it to be fitted,one -lets just say-different. Ive had both at same time-times three.....so i know if im getting bs'd.And ive compared this with all my wilsons,Nighthawks,ed browns,colts,springers and the lowly llama. And of all.......one was unique.......in the way it was fitted. If you have a Baer and any other brand 1911,prefferably a semi custom just to keep things evened up. With 1911 unloaded,chamber empty and hammer cocked back.Feel the side to side play of slide front and back to frame,then feel the up and down play of slide to frame front and back.You may have no play,little play or a bit more play,no big deal.But get a good feel of what you have. Now,remove slide assy off the frame,remove barrel and bushing,recoil parts out of slide.Slide the empty slide back on the frame and now feel the slide to frame fit keeping in mind what you felt before with a fully assembled slide earlier.Feel front up and down,rear up and down and front and rear side to side...... Compare the the difference in feel of the baer before and after slide parts removed....and on second 1911 compare the difference of before and after also..... Id really like for someone with a tight Baer to post what they feel......i'll let some feed back come in on this......you might discover Baers secret.... Wow. I didn't realize Baers were such crap. While not all Baers are crap,in the semi-custom end,you stand a better chance of getting a crappy 1911 if you go with Baer. To new 1911 buyers,buy a Baer at your own risk of getting a gun that wont fire,then be told that you need to fire 500 to 1000 rounds thru it..and when that doesnt work...be ready to be told to fire another 500 thru 1000 rounds again.....all in the name of breakin in.....you wont hear this from any other other 1911 maker... Read thru different forums and you'l hear this bullshit story over and over again about Baer.....but not any other manufacturer. How do i know....i went thru it,I had three Baers..and Guess what,They were CRAP ! On the flip side my PII has run like a clock since day one. Anecdotes do not equal evidence. Im curious what several hundred was thru the wilson? Wilson has outstanding customer service as does Springfiled-should the OP go for the Pro.They even cover shipping..............Baer does not.Ask me how i know. Glad your PII has worked great for you,it's the way it should be. Evidence you ask,buying three Baers at a cost of about $6000,and after putting over 4500+ rounds($1500+/-)thru the three combined and still the dam things not able to go thru one mag without some kind of malfunction...and then being told that i need to run another 500-1000 rounds more thru them.....thats Plenty evidence for me. Yes,it's not evidence for everyone else on here,but it does happen more than Baer lovers want to accept.And if this helps just one person from spending there money on a crappy Baer and instead putting it on a Springer Pro-so much better they'll be.Backed up by superior customer service -Springfield Custom Shop....and free shipping to Custom shop should warranty work be needed,your not just buying the gun,your buying the whole package......you may not need the warranty service,but it's so nice to know that if things dont work as they should,the maker has you covered.Fully covered that is. I ended up selling that gun to fund my AUG A3, since it was the only 1911 I had that didn't run right from day 1. It was running fine by the time I sold it though, and I kinda wish I hadn't. Still, my Baer never gave me any issues, and as you will see from the other Baer owners that seems to be the norm. Point being is that it sucks that you had problems. But your experience is not necessarily indicative of a trend anymore than mine is. The vast majority of Baer owners are "Baer lovers" as you put it for a reason. He makes damn fine guns. Do problems go out? Yup, just like any manufacturer. I will agree that Baer's CS is not on par with Wilson though. However the vast majority of Baer owners will never have to use it... |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Winchester White Box 230gr FMJ. I was getting alot of not returning all the way to batteries until I got a few hundred rounds through it. Maybe 400-500 or so... I never contacted CS about that specifically, because I understand that a break-in period on 1911s are not uncommon. I did however mention it to them in passing at a later date, but by that time it had already broken in and was no longer a concern. They said "yeah, its not unusual..."
Quoted:
Quoted:
Really? Cause the Wilson CQB that I owned had problems out the box. It didn't smooth out until I had several hundred rounds through it. I was told that was normal by CS.
Quoted:
Quoted:
And I own a Pro and a Baer, have friends that own Pros and Baers.
Since you have both,one has the slide and frame fitted more like JMB designed it to be fitted,one -lets just say-different. Ive had both at same time-times three.....so i know if im getting bs'd.And ive compared this with all my wilsons,Nighthawks,ed browns,colts,springers and the lowly llama. And of all.......one was unique.......in the way it was fitted. If you have a Baer and any other brand 1911,prefferably a semi custom just to keep things evened up. With 1911 unloaded,chamber empty and hammer cocked back.Feel the side to side play of slide front and back to frame,then feel the up and down play of slide to frame front and back.You may have no play,little play or a bit more play,no big deal.But get a good feel of what you have. Now,remove slide assy off the frame,remove barrel and bushing,recoil parts out of slide.Slide the empty slide back on the frame and now feel the slide to frame fit keeping in mind what you felt before with a fully assembled slide earlier.Feel front up and down,rear up and down and front and rear side to side...... Compare the the difference in feel of the baer before and after slide parts removed....and on second 1911 compare the difference of before and after also..... Id really like for someone with a tight Baer to post what they feel......i'll let some feed back come in on this......you might discover Baers secret.... Wow. I didn't realize Baers were such crap.
While not all Baers are crap,in the semi-custom end,you stand a better chance of getting a crappy 1911 if you go with Baer. To new 1911 buyers,buy a Baer at your own risk of getting a gun that wont fire,then be told that you need to fire 500 to 1000 rounds thru it..and when that doesnt work...be ready to be told to fire another 500 thru 1000 rounds again.....all in the name of breakin in.....you wont hear this from any other other 1911 maker... Read thru different forums and you'l hear this bullshit story over and over again about Baer.....but not any other manufacturer. How do i know....i went thru it,I had three Baers..and Guess what,They were CRAP ! On the flip side my PII has run like a clock since day one. Anecdotes do not equal evidence. Im curious what several hundred was thru the wilson? Wilson has outstanding customer service as does Springfiled-should the OP go for the Pro.They even cover shipping..............Baer does not.Ask me how i know. Glad your PII has worked great for you,it's the way it should be. Evidence you ask,buying three Baers at a cost of about $6000,and after putting over 4500+ rounds($1500+/-)thru the three combined and still the dam things not able to go thru one mag without some kind of malfunction...and then being told that i need to run another 500-1000 rounds more thru them.....thats Plenty evidence for me. Yes,it's not evidence for everyone else on here,but it does happen more than Baer lovers want to accept.And if this helps just one person from spending there money on a crappy Baer and instead putting it on a Springer Pro-so much better they'll be.Backed up by superior customer service -Springfield Custom Shop....and free shipping to Custom shop should warranty work be needed,your not just buying the gun,your buying the whole package......you may not need the warranty service,but it's so nice to know that if things dont work as they should,the maker has you covered.Fully covered that is. I ended up selling that gun to fund my AUG A3, since it was the only 1911 I had that didn't run right from day 1. It was running fine by the time I sold it though, and I kinda wish I hadn't. Still, my Baer never gave me any issues, and as you will see from the other Baer owners that seems to be the norm. Point being is that it sucks that you had problems. But your experience is not necessarily indicative of a trend anymore than mine is. The vast majority of Baer owners are "Baer lovers" as you put it for a reason. He makes damn fine guns. Do problems go out? Yup, just like any manufacturer. I will agree that Baer's CS is not on par with Wilson though. However the vast majority of Baer owners will never have to use it... Baer will have you send in a gun that doesnt run if you have put 500rds through it. And thats a very rare occurence, look at all the Baer specific sub-forums. This guy is asking us to believe that he alone managed to get the total number of Baers you see in a year in the 1911 forum that have problems. Also Baers CS is as good as Ed Browns. Every bit, if not ahead of them in that regard. No one can touch Springfields Customer Service or Wilsons, but you pay for it, I mean it makes you wonder what SA has invested in the imported guns the way they work on them. |
|
No one can touch Springfields Customer Service or Wilsons, but you pay for it, I mean it makes you wonder what SA has invested in the imported guns the way they work on them.
Im in full agreement with this statement,to the OP,should you get the Pro model,a very wise choice all the way around.To all the other 1911 aficionados on this thread,best of luck with whichever make of 1911 you own and shoot. May your 1911 go Bang every pull of the trigger...........Im out. |
|
Quoted:
WHat is a good price on a Pro? not being scalped... Heads up on a used Pro for $2000 on gunbroker. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=281890548 |