Posted: 9/26/2010 4:36:14 PM EDT
| Just bought a Kimber Custom II today, and having some buyer's regret now reading about the Swartz safety, is it as much of a problem as i read it is? |
I wouldn't worry about the Swartz unless you have issues with it.
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To some it's an issue, to others it doesn't matter. For all the time I've spent on this forum I'm yet to see a thread about the swartz causing issues.
Like others have said, if you remove the rear sight you can remove the swartz guts and not worry about it. There are far more problem areas in a Kimber that should be addressed before the swartz. |
| The main thing to avoid is to depress the grip safety while dissasembling the gun. The problems I've heard with regards to the safety occured when the piece that pushes up got messed up from removing the slide. While I don't have any guns with this system on them, and as much as I prefer to avoid them, I recomend you don't worry too much about the thing. I'm pretty sure that other things like full lenght guide rods with reverse plugs that require a tiny piece of metal in a hole for dissasebly are alot more annoying than the swartz safety. |
| Dude, the Swartz safety is a non issue at this point. I have fired MANY rounds through Swartz Kimbers, and never has a Swartz caused problem. Purists hate ANY type of firing pin safety in a 1911, and take any and every chance they get to popo it, and talk about how it CAN fail. Here is a surprise, It is no more an issue than any other modern gun with a firing pin safety. And all modern guns do have a firing pin safety. If you search hard enough on the internet, you can find fucked up horror stories and much angst and teeth gnashing about ANY and EVERY feature of any and every gun. If your the type of person that just wants to find things wrong with your weapons, then no gun will ever be good enough. You made the right choice in your price range. Just dont squeeze the grip safety when you dissasemble and reassemble the gun, and you will be just fine. Go shoot the living hell out of it , then laugh at all the bullshitters that will tell you about every flaw of every gun, that they have never owned. |
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It can be removed, just don't tell anyone that you did so especially if your going to use it for any type of carry or HD or you'll get quite a few responses that there are 100 lawyers waiting for you to use it to defend yourself. Don't even mention it later in another thread after this one or people will tell you its a perfectly acceptable mechanical device in your 1911 and basically call you a paranoid retard for removing it.
I'm going to take a chance though saying I've removed any swartz or 80 series safety from any 1911 I've ever owned. Its not needed and if you do decide to do it, remember to put an extra power firing spring in there. The stock firing pin springs on 1911s with firing pin safeties are shorter and weaker than standard springs. |
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The Swartz firing pin block was experiment with by Colt in the 40's and found to be fragile. The trigger actuated firing pin block that Colt introduced in teh 80's is much more robust than the Swartz system. I've personally seen both systems fail. Resulting in guns that went click instead of bang. Now if you exercise PROPER maintenance the likely hood of causing damage to either that would result in their failure is slim. I as many believe the firing pin block to be an answer to a non existent problem. |
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Quoted:
The Swartz firing pin block was experiment with by Colt in the 40's and found to be fragile. The trigger actuated firing pin block that Colt introduced in teh 80's is much more robust than the Swartz system. I've personally seen both systems fail. Resulting in guns that went click instead of bang. Now if you exercise PROPER maintenance the likely hood of causing damage to either that would result in their failure is slim. I as many believe the firing pin block to be an answer to a non existent problem. Actually, the schwartz wasn't abandoned for being weak. It was abandoned because of the Govt contract to supply pistols to the US Military during WW2. These contracts took up most of the production capability of Colt. The US Govt didn't specify a firing pin safety for the contract weapons, so Colt just dropped it from all the models to simplify production. However, there were quite a few Weapons delivered early on, that did have the frame set up for the schwartz, but the parts were omitted. After the war, The inventor of the safety was no longer with Colt, and when he left, he took his patented design with him. Therefor, Colt could not begin useing it for post war production. Eventually they copied the european design of FPS that operates off the trigger. |
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Quoted: Quoted: The Swartz firing pin block was experiment with by Colt in the 40's and found to be fragile. The trigger actuated firing pin block that Colt introduced in teh 80's is much more robust than the Swartz system. I've personally seen both systems fail. Resulting in guns that went click instead of bang. Now if you exercise PROPER maintenance the likely hood of causing damage to either that would result in their failure is slim. I as many believe the firing pin block to be an answer to a non existent problem. Actually, the schwartz wasn't abandoned for being weak. It was abandoned because of the Govt contract to supply pistols to the US Military during WW2. These contracts took up most of the production capability of Colt. The US Govt didn't specify a firing pin safety for the contract weapons, so Colt just dropped it from all the models to simplify production. However, there were quite a few Weapons delivered early on, that did have the frame set up for the schwartz, but the parts were omitted. After the war, The inventor of the safety was no longer with Colt, and when he left, he took his patented design with him. Therefor, Colt could not begin useing it for post war production. Eventually they copied the european design of FPS that operates off the trigger. I believe I said it was found to be fragile not that it was abandoned for being fragile. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Swartz firing pin block was experiment with by Colt in the 40's and found to be fragile. The trigger actuated firing pin block that Colt introduced in teh 80's is much more robust than the Swartz system. I've personally seen both systems fail. Resulting in guns that went click instead of bang. Now if you exercise PROPER maintenance the likely hood of causing damage to either that would result in their failure is slim. I as many believe the firing pin block to be an answer to a non existent problem. Actually, the schwartz wasn't abandoned for being weak. It was abandoned because of the Govt contract to supply pistols to the US Military during WW2. These contracts took up most of the production capability of Colt. The US Govt didn't specify a firing pin safety for the contract weapons, so Colt just dropped it from all the models to simplify production. However, there were quite a few Weapons delivered early on, that did have the frame set up for the schwartz, but the parts were omitted. After the war, The inventor of the safety was no longer with Colt, and when he left, he took his patented design with him. Therefor, Colt could not begin useing it for post war production. Eventually they copied the european design of FPS that operates off the trigger. I believe I said it was found to be fragile not that it was abandoned for being fragile. Well Sir, I have seen no info from any documented source from that period that identifies the schwartz as being fragile. There is lots of modern speculation about the durability of the design, which is certainly up for debate as well. As it stands, the matter of the Schwartz safety being Identified as fragile in the period in which it was produced and utilized by Colt, Is not a matter of fact, it is a matter of opinion. |
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Quoted: Well Sir, I have seen no info from any documented source from that period that identifies the schwartz as being fragile. There is lots of modern speculation about the durability of the design, which is certainly up for debate as well. As it stands, the matter of the Schwartz safety being Identified as fragile in the period in which it was produced and utilized by Colt, Is not a matter of fact, it is a matter of opinion. Despite what you may think or imply I'm not in the habit of pulling things out of my ass. Neither can I provide a link to every single article I've ever read in the last 30 years. Most of the information put forth here is "opinion". The members decide who's opinion they put weight too. |
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There is alot of info on this if you search around 1911foums.com.
I've seen one K get some drag on the firing pin by the FPS. I saw another K with a broken FPS plunger at the range. It would drop the hammer but not fire. So the problems with the Custom II's do exist, but are very rare. There is a test you can do to test to see if the FPS is dragging on the FP that may cause light strikes eventually. And lets face it. The K sights aren't really that great. I swapped mine out for a Heinie rear and a .090 thin Dawson FO front. I removed the Custom II FPS at the same time. The down side is now there is a big hole in the inside bottom of my slide where the FPS used to be. Maybe carbon can get blown up in there? I'll keep an eye on it and detail strip the slide more often. It's no big deal. If it bothers you then remove it. The rear sight was easy to remove on my 5" Custom CDP II. |
| Well I'm one of the people that did have a problem with the Swartz safety on my Pro Carry II. I could not get it to activate reliably. Out of every 100 rds fired I'd get a click instead of a bang about 3 times. I cured the problem by installing a series 70 firing pin. I fired over 2,000 rds after replacing the firing pin and there were NO excessive wear marks, drag marks, or any other marks on the other parts. While it's rare, some of us do/did have problems with the Swartz safety! |
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I have two Kimbers one with one without. I could not tell the difference with or without. I have 2000+ rounds on the system and it has not given me an issue. Same here. I have a classic custom and a tactical custom II. I have at least 2k through the tactical and not one issue yet. |