[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The DA/SA (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/12/2011 8:03:06 PM EDT
| What really motivated to this system to created? |
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What really motivated to this system to created? Can you rephrase that question? It seems you are asking why a pistol would be both single action and double action. I'm asking what sort of problem in the handgun world motivated the creation of the DA/SA pistol? I mean there must been some defiency with the single action pistol which made them want to create the DA/SA. |
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It was developed in response to the perceived dangers of keeping a pistol cocked with a round in the chamber. The DA/SA mechanism allowed the hammer to be down on a loaded chamber with either the firing pin's hind parts rotated out of the way or, if nothing else, giving the hammer less distance to build up monentum to set off the cartridge. The whole thing still allowed the user of the pistol to draw and pull the trigger when the pistol was needed. Personally, I don't see a current need for it. With the myriad of striker-fired pistols that are DAO you can have the safety of a DA/SA auto with the consistency of a DA revolver.
People who want a SAO pistol generally have done enough shooting to know what they want and are likely to practice with it enough to be proficient. The most likely people to use one of these would be police/ military and the majority of them are not 'gun people' they see it as a tool and something they have to qualify on and nothing more. I'd wager that most of them wouldn't appriciate the difference if they were given something else from the start, it would still just be 'that thing on thier belt'. I'd rather give a tyro something with a longer first pull if only so that they are less likely to shoot me, thier partner, when shit gos down hill. Especially if they are the sort who only take thier pistol out a couple times a year and squeak by on the qualifier. |
| No safety to mess with, just draw and fire. With CZ's they decock to half cock which is not bad at all since it's essentially between a full DA pull and SA. Go a step further and get the comp hammer installed from CZ custom and now the half cock DA is 8lbs and smooth as butter. Can't think of a better way to carry IMHO. |
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It was developed in response to the perceived dangers of keeping a pistol cocked with a round in the chamber. The DA/SA mechanism allowed the hammer to be down on a loaded chamber with either the firing pin's hind parts rotated out of the way or, if nothing else, giving the hammer less distance to build up monentum to set off the cartridge. The whole thing still allowed the user of the pistol to draw and pull the trigger when the pistol was needed. Personally, I don't see a current need for it. With the myriad of striker-fired pistols that are DAO you can have the safety of a DA/SA auto with the consistency of a DA revolver. People who want a SAO pistol generally have done enough shooting to know what they want and are likely to practice with it enough to be proficient. The most likely people to use one of these would be police/ military and the majority of them are not 'gun people' they see it as a tool and something they have to qualify on and nothing more. I'd wager that most of them wouldn't appriciate the difference if they were given something else from the start, it would still just be 'that thing on thier belt'. I'd rather give a tyro something with a longer first pull if only so that they are less likely to shoot me, thier partner, when shit gos down hill. Especially if they are the sort who only take thier pistol out a couple times a year and squeak by on the qualifier. +1 |
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No safety to mess with, just draw and fire. With CZ's they decock to half cock which is not bad at all since it's essentially between a full DA pull and SA. Go a step further and get the comp hammer installed from CZ custom and now the half cock DA is 8lbs and smooth as butter. Can't think of a better way to carry IMHO. Im doing the comp trigger (sao) and carrying cocked and locked. Different strokes for different folks... If I get and carry a P01, id definitely do what you just said. |
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It was developed in response to the perceived dangers of keeping a pistol cocked with a round in the chamber. The DA/SA mechanism allowed the hammer to be down on a loaded chamber with either the firing pin's hind parts rotated out of the way or, if nothing else, giving the hammer less distance to build up monentum to set off the cartridge. The whole thing still allowed the user of the pistol to draw and pull the trigger when the pistol was needed. Personally, I don't see a current need for it. With the myriad of striker-fired pistols that are DAO you can have the safety of a DA/SA auto with the consistency of a DA revolver. People who want a SAO pistol generally have done enough shooting to know what they want and are likely to practice with it enough to be proficient. The most likely people to use one of these would be police/ military and the majority of them are not 'gun people' they see it as a tool and something they have to qualify on and nothing more. I'd wager that most of them wouldn't appriciate the difference if they were given something else from the start, it would still just be 'that thing on thier belt'. I'd rather give a tyro something with a longer first pull if only so that they are less likely to shoot me, thier partner, when shit gos down hill. Especially if they are the sort who only take thier pistol out a couple times a year and squeak by on the qualifier. It was much more than a "perceived danger". I was in the US Army when we changed from 1911s to M9s. We were required to carry 1911s in condition 3 ( loaded mag, empty chamber) precisely because of all the NDs that occurred with the SA trigger. Many MP and other security troops who carried pistols full time were issued revolvers for this reason. The DA/SA decocker was at that time the best option available to reduce NDs, consolidate pistol types, ammo and training with such a low priority, secondary weapon system. Many cops are prior military and there is also a herd mentality that says " what Uncle Sam uses must be the best" which made many police depts to want to switch to DA/SA decock autos. It took a while for the old timers in the police and military to retire and take their DA revolvers and SA autos with them, it will still be some time before the next generation leaves and puts DA/SA in the same specialty use/user class. |
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Different tools for different purposes. There's nothing wrong variety, and I can see a place for all these systems. The real issue with most NDs comes from a lack of use of the safety between the ears, not from the weapon. Az I agree. I prefer DA/SA. Especially if it is like the HK with a separate de-cocker and safety. Essentially carry anyway you see fit. |
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the first da/sa guns were developed about 80 years ago when most of the single action guns were not designed to be carried chambered with safe on. While even at that time there were a few good single action designs like the 1911 at that time the standard of carry was hammer down on a loaded chamber cocking on the draw- it was felt to be a more safe and ready state to ahve the gun in
the idea of cocked and locked carry did not come into the mainstream until the 1960's |
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I do not know of many people that walk around with a gun on single action with no safety. Maybe its just me. Not a favored practice but it works for lefties carrying a gi-configured 1911 in the manner in which JMB originally designed it - made safe by proper leather, proper indexing, and grip safety. of course, the ambi safety is a better long term solution. |
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The term SA/DA has always annoyed me. DA implies quite clearly that there is also a SA. Otherwise it'd be DAO.
Why the redundancy. Anyway I always preferred DA auto pistols more than anything until I got a XDm. That's now my favorite gun, but I also own a 1911 and a DA auto and as long as you have sufficient time with the gun on your hand and on your person and at the range, I don't think any of these systems really have any serious problems or faults. It's the user not the tool. |
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DA/SA is to keep rookies from having an ND and hurting/killing someone. Even experienced shooters have ND's with SAO triggers.   Pretty much. It's a system designed to allow the pistol to be carried chambered but still keep the odds of private Numbnuts shooting himself in the leg acceptably low. IMO, I prefer DAO, SAO, or striker. Trigger consistency FTW. |
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DA/SA is to keep rookies from having an ND and hurting/killing someone. Even experienced shooters have ND's with SAO triggers. Pretty much. It's a system designed to allow the pistol to be carried chambered but still keep the odds of private Numbnuts shooting himself in the leg acceptably low. IMO, I prefer DAO, SAO, or striker. Trigger consistency FTW. I've never had a problem with 2 different trigger pulls. At normal self defense distances, inconsistent trigger pull isn't a problem anyway. Once you learn how to properly pull a trigger, the weight and length of pull change do not impact your capabilities. I'm just as accurate with my 1st shot as with my follow ups. |
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I prefer it over any other system.
Really works as a safety, yet doesn't hinder the gun from firing if danger is so close that all you have time to do is pull the trigger. After that, it provides a lighter SA pull for more accurate shots than a striker fired gun with a typical carry weight trigger. Also provides positive feedback when reholstering, that the trigger is not caught on your belt or gear. |
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Quoted: The term SA/DA has always annoyed me. DA implies quite clearly that there is also a SA. Otherwise it'd be DAO. Why the redundancy. Double Action refers to what actions the trigger does when pulled. In a double action revolver, when the trigger is pulled, it cocks and releases the hammer (two actions). When fired single action with the hammer cocked manually, pulling the trigger simply releases the hammer (one action). This is why a DA/SA semi-auto pistol is called DA/SA. Because pulling the trigger the first time cocks and releases the hammer, and pulling the trigger for all subsequent shots simply releases the hammer since the slide cocks it when it cycles. |
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The term SA/DA has always annoyed me. DA implies quite clearly that there is also a SA. Otherwise it'd be DAO. Why the redundancy. Well that is because it is not the term DA/SA that is wrong. The names started as SA and DA. Then the revolver with both capabilities was created and it became DA. This meant DAO was created to name the old design and SA remained SAO. Everyone assumed SA to be SAO. Then the pistol came around. And was DAO and SAO. Then the end of the story is the DA/SA. The term DA/SA was created to describe a pistol that was DA but, due to the reciprocating slide, was able to take advantage and become SA during operation. Essentially DAO on JUST the first pull then SAO afterwards. DA is a term reserved for revolvers because the revolver can't re-cock the hammer. Therefore it had Double Action (2 methods of use) DAO or SAO. Revolvers come in: SA (SAO) DA (SAO and DAO) Pistols come in: SAO DAO DA/SA (DAO for the first round only and SAO for every consecutive round) And striker. (DAO, SAO, 1/4DAO, 1/4SAO, 1/2DAO, 1/2SAO, 3/4DAO, 3/4SAO...this shit is SNAFUBAR) |
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DA/SA is to keep rookies from having an ND and hurting/killing someone. Even experienced shooters have ND's with SAO triggers. Pretty much. It's a system designed to allow the pistol to be carried chambered but still keep the odds of private Numbnuts shooting himself in the leg acceptably low. Maybe you guys can tell the (vast) majority of the HSLD face shooters in this world that their "rookies" for carrying DA/SA weapons. I'm sure that both of you can outsoot them too, since they're soooo hampered by that terrible trigger pull. |
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The term SA/DA has always annoyed me. DA implies quite clearly that there is also a SA. Otherwise it'd be DAO. Why the redundancy. Double Action refers to what actions the trigger does when pulled. In a double action revolver, when the trigger is pulled, it cocks and releases the hammer (two actions). When fired single action with the hammer cocked manually, pulling the trigger simply releases the hammer (one action). This is why a DA/SA semi-auto pistol is called DA/SA. Because pulling the trigger the first time cocks and releases the hammer, and pulling the trigger for all subsequent shots simply releases the hammer since the slide cocks it when it cycles. Still redundant. It's obvious that a semi-auto pistol which is DA is not going to be DA on every pull. Then it would be DAO. I understand the reason people call it that, I just think it's redundant and silly. |
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DA/SA is to keep rookies from having an ND and hurting/killing someone. Even experienced shooters have ND's with SAO triggers. Pretty much. It's a system designed to allow the pistol to be carried chambered but still keep the odds of private Numbnuts shooting himself in the leg acceptably low. Maybe you guys can tell the (vast) majority of the HSLD face shooters in this world that their "rookies" for carrying DA/SA weapons. I'm sure that both of you can outsoot them too, since they're soooo hampered by that terrible trigger pull. Most HSLD guys shoot what they're issued. Fewer, than people assume, have the ability to choose, and those that do from what I gather often choose something else. If I had the ability to shoot high volume like they do, I would be more comfortable with a DA/SA platform. I however do not. Given that there are platforms out there with consistent trigger pulls that are just as good, if not better, than available DA/SA designs, I am not sacrificing anything to go to a platform with a consistent trigger pull. Does that mean they're bad? No. All it means is that I choose the platform that works better for me, which is one with a consistent trigger pull. |
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DA/SA is to keep rookies from having an ND and hurting/killing someone. Even experienced shooters have ND's with SAO triggers. Pretty much. It's a system designed to allow the pistol to be carried chambered but still keep the odds of private Numbnuts shooting himself in the leg acceptably low. Maybe you guys can tell the (vast) majority of the HSLD face shooters in this world that their "rookies" for carrying DA/SA weapons. I'm sure that both of you can outsoot them too, since they're soooo hampered by that terrible trigger pull. Most HSLD guys shoot what they're issued. Fewer, than people assume, have the ability to choose, and those that do from what I gather often choose something else. If I had the ability to shoot high volume like they do, I would be more comfortable with a DA/SA platform. I however do not. Given that there are platforms out there with consistent trigger pulls that are just as good, if not better, than available DA/SA designs, I am not sacrificing anything to go to a platform with a consistent trigger pull. Does that mean they're bad? No. All it means is that I choose the platform that works better for me, which is one with a consistent trigger pull. Agreed. Those guys shoot a shit-ton. I would take a traditional DA pistol if I got a great deal on it, but my preference is for a single trigger pull. |
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The term SA/DA has always annoyed me. DA implies quite clearly that there is also a SA. Otherwise it'd be DAO. Why the redundancy. Double Action refers to what actions the trigger does when pulled. In a double action revolver, when the trigger is pulled, it cocks and releases the hammer (two actions). When fired single action with the hammer cocked manually, pulling the trigger simply releases the hammer (one action). This is why a DA/SA semi-auto pistol is called DA/SA. Because pulling the trigger the first time cocks and releases the hammer, and pulling the trigger for all subsequent shots simply releases the hammer since the slide cocks it when it cycles. Still redundant. It's obvious that a semi-auto pistol which is DA is not going to be DA on every pull. Then it would be DAO. I understand the reason people call it that, I just think it's redundant and silly. If I have a DAO and say its DA, you would be wrong. The terms everyone uses is to be specific, and leave no doubt. I never knew specifying exactly what something was was redundant. DA/SA a gun capable of both DA and SA fire DA a gun capable of DA(DA/SA or DAO) SA gun capable of single action(SAO or DA/SA) DAO SAO see, the blue is not specific. People say SAO, DAO, DA/SA to tell you what they are talking about. SA or DA leaves you unsure, unless they are talking about the mode itself and not a pistol capable of it. |
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What really motivated to this system to created? Can you rephrase that question? It seems you are asking why a pistol would be both single action and double action. I'm asking what sort of problem in the handgun world motivated the creation of the DA/SA pistol? I mean there must been some defiency with the single action pistol which made them want to create the DA/SA. City Legal...aka a Lawyer created it. In my best Raymond Burr voice...it has been deemed necessary to make the guns firing sequence a lot more difficult so as to not discharge prematurely which may cause injury or even death to the person on the receiving end of said discharge. Therefore, a long double action trigger pull would lower our risk posture and liability to said public. Also on the plus side the gun doesn't appear so aggressive and evil to the general public of which this city/county/state/government law enforcement officers serve, because it doesn't appear cocked and ready to go off. I rest my case. Judy, what's on the menu for lunch? It's been a busy morning.  That will be $900 gazillion dollars please. The people will thank me.
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Most HSLD guys shoot what they're issued. Fewer, than people assume, have the ability to choose, and those that do from what I gather often choose something else. If I had the ability to shoot high volume like they do, I would be more comfortable with a DA/SA platform. I however do not. Given that there are platforms out there with consistent trigger pulls that are just as good, if not better, than available DA/SA designs, I am not sacrificing anything to go to a platform with a consistent trigger pull. Does that mean they're bad? No. All it means is that I choose the platform that works better for me, which is one with a consistent trigger pull. Yes, they do shoot what they are issued. If the the P226 hampered SEALs from making accurate hits, they wouldn't have issued it for 20 years and continue to do so. The guys that have a little leeway such as the JSOC units, still issue weapons and can't always use whatever they want. They have very extensive T/E trials for weapons before they are selected for use. Take Devgru for example.... they still continue to use/issue the P226R 9mm, and recently selected another DA/SA weapon to fill the suppressed pistol role, the HK45C v3. It was chosen over the Glock and SIG models. The SAS/SBS chose the P226 too when they replaced their single action Hi-Powers. The DA/SA action is not as hard to learn as people make it out to be. I don't shoot a fraction of what the guys listed above do, but my first shot is just as accurate as the ones that follow it. Many people make the mistake of owning several different makes that have different actions and "train" on them all. You will become a much more proficient shooter if you stick to one type of action, and better yet, one make of handgun, even if they're different models/sizes. |
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The DA/SA action is not as hard to learn as people make it out to be. It's not hard to learn, what's hard is doing it right under intense pressure. But if your DA shooting is as good as your SA shooting I'm sure it's no problem for you. Even experts will tell you that pressure will cause bad trigger pull for them too. In the old days of car racing, people were breaking transmissions just from shifting too hard. The simple pressure to go as fast as possible caused people to subconsciously equate shifting hard with shifting fast. Even on the street today, people break cars from driving them hard rather than fast. Same problem with trigger pull. When time counts, rough is substituted for smooth. |
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Even experts will tell you that pressure will cause bad trigger pull for them too. In the old days of car racing, people were breaking transmissions just from shifting too hard. The simple pressure to go as fast as possible caused people to subconsciously equate shifting hard with shifting fast. Even on the street today, people break cars from driving them hard rather than fast. Same problem with trigger pull. When time counts, rough is substituted for smooth.[/div] OT: or you could swap out that fragile, girly, barely-strong-enough-to-live-past-the-warranty-with-your-grandma-driving-it Brand-X 4-speed for a mighty 18-spline New Process A833 with a pistol grip shifter and slam gears so hard and fearless, people think you stole it. 
BOT: I just bought an HK P30 v3 (DA/SA) simply because that's what I've been shooting for 25 years both in and out of service, but I plan to get the v1 conversion parts (DAO) to putt around with it until it becomes comfortable, then I'll stick with DAO. The DA/SA split still causes me trouble even after all these years, so it's time to get with the times. |
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I do not know of many people that walk around with a gun on single action with no safety. Maybe its just me. Hi, My name is America-first and I walk around all day, every day, with a single action, striker fired, M&P .40 that is devoid of any manually activated safety devices, on my person. |
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I do not know of many people that walk around with a gun on single action with no safety. Maybe its just me. Hi, My name is America-first and I walk around all day, every day, with a single action, striker fired, M&P .40 that is devoid of any manually activated safety devices, on my person. 
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I do not know of many people that walk around with a gun on single action with no safety. Maybe its just me. Hi, My name is America-first and I walk around all day, every day, with a single action, striker fired, M&P .40 that is devoid of any manually activated safety devices, on my person. Not a true single action. Pulling the trigger completes the cocking. I get what you're saying but it's a little iffy to call the M&P a single action pistol. |
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DA/SA is to keep rookies from having an ND and hurting/killing someone. Even experienced shooters have ND's with SAO triggers. Pretty much. It's a system designed to allow the pistol to be carried chambered but still keep the odds of private Numbnuts shooting himself in the leg acceptably low. Maybe you guys can tell the (vast) majority of the HSLD face shooters in this world that their they're "rookies" for carrying DA/SA weapons. I'm sure that both of you can outshoot them too, since they're soooo hampered by that terrible trigger pull. Either your reading and comprehension skills are lacking or you must not be on here alot. If you were you would know that I only shoot DA/SA in my handguns and that I prefer an external safety and hammer on my handguns as well. When I mention "rookies"/n00bs I'm talking about people who have NEVER shot or handled a handgun before. Did you even read my "trigger" rant post??? 
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Most HSLD guys shoot what they're issued. Fewer, than people assume, have the ability to choose, and those that do from what I gather often choose something else. If I had the ability to shoot high volume like they do, I would be more comfortable with a DA/SA platform. I however do not. Given that there are platforms out there with consistent trigger pulls that are just as good, if not better, than available DA/SA designs, I am not sacrificing anything to go to a platform with a consistent trigger pull. Does that mean they're bad? No. All it means is that I choose the platform that works better for me, which is one with a consistent trigger pull. Yes, they do shoot what they are issued. If the the P226 hampered SEALs from making accurate hits, they wouldn't have issued it for 20 years and continue to do so. The guys that have a little leeway such as the JSOC units, still issue weapons and can't always use whatever they want. They have very extensive T/E trials for weapons before they are selected for use. Take Devgru for example.... they still continue to use/issue the P226R 9mm, and recently selected another DA/SA weapon to fill the suppressed pistol role, the HK45C v3. It was chosen over the Glock and SIG models. The SAS/SBS chose the P226 too when they replaced their single action Hi-Powers. The DA/SA action is not as hard to learn as people make it out to be. I don't shoot a fraction of what the guys listed above do, but my first shot is just as accurate as the ones that follow it. Many people make the mistake of owning several different makes that have different actions and "train" on them all. You will become a much more proficient shooter if you stick to one type of action, and better yet, one make of handgun, even if they're different models/sizes. Agreed 100% I do not feel DA/SA is in any way a hinderance provided that you train that way, and train the proper way. Most people who shoot DA/SA handguns at the range never fire it in double action, and those that do get one rep every magazine. A gun being DA/SA won't prevent me from owning it, but thus far all of my favorite shooters are either striker fired or can be carried loaded with a safety on. If HK would get off their asses and release a P30 9mm with a manual safety, I'd be happier than a pig in shit. That right there is a prime example of a "favorite" that has not yet been released the way I want...and yes...its driving me nuts. In regards to the HK45C, does that issued version only have a decocker, or does it also function as a safety to give them the opportunity to carry hammer back/safety on? I only ask because I've never seen an HK45 setup this way. |
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I do not know of many people that walk around with a gun on single action with no safety. Maybe its just me. Hi, My name is America-first and I walk around all day, every day, with a single action, striker fired, M&P .40 that is devoid of any manually activated safety devices, on my person. Not a true single action. Pulling the trigger completes the cocking. I get what you're saying but it's a little iffy to call the M&P a single action pistol. No it doesn't :-) The striker is fully cocked, but there is still pre-travel before you reach the break. |
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HK45 and HK45C have the same control lever variants as the USP line.
Either all 8 or 9 IIRC. Gotcha. Its been a while since I've looked at them, and when I bought my HK45 it was only available as a "safety/decocker" (IE traditional V1 USP style). Do the variant numbers match the USP descriptions? An HK45 V9 (safety only) would be a great gun....... |
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HK45 and HK45C have the same control lever variants as the USP line.
Either all 8 or 9 IIRC. Gotcha. Its been a while since I've looked at them, and when I bought my HK45 it was only available as a "safety/decocker" (IE traditional V1 USP style). Do the variant numbers match the USP descriptions? An HK45 V9 (safety only) would be a great gun....... They should match. Give HK a call and find out.  
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HK45 and HK45C have the same control lever variants as the USP line.
Either all 8 or 9 IIRC. Gotcha. Its been a while since I've looked at them, and when I bought my HK45 it was only available as a "safety/decocker" (IE traditional V1 USP style). Do the variant numbers match the USP descriptions? An HK45 V9 (safety only) would be a great gun....... They should match. Give HK a call and find out. Why the hell would I do that when I've got my very own HK rep right here in this thread???
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I do not know of many people that walk around with a gun on single action with no safety. Maybe its just me. Hi, My name is America-first and I walk around all day, every day, with a single action, striker fired, M&P .40 that is devoid of any manually activated safety devices, on my person. Not a true single action. Pulling the trigger completes the cocking. I get what you're saying but it's a little iffy to call the M&P a single action pistol. No it doesn't :-) The striker is fully cocked, but there is still pre-travel before you reach the break. Hmm. I won't argue with you, but I thought for certain I'd read S&W themselves say that the striker is mostly cocked when a round is chambered but not completely. Don't recall where i read that. |
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I do not know of many people that walk around with a gun on single action with no safety. Maybe its just me. Hi, My name is America-first and I walk around all day, every day, with a single action, striker fired, M&P .40 that is devoid of any manually activated safety devices, on my person. Not a true single action. Pulling the trigger completes the cocking. I get what you're saying but it's a little iffy to call the M&P a single action pistol. No it doesn't :-) The striker is fully cocked, but there is still pre-travel before you reach the break. Knowledge is power. "As the slide of the pistol enters battery, the striker engages the sear and is held back in a partially cocked condition. Upon the trigger of the M&P being pulled, the trigger bar first engages the firing pin safety plunger, lifting it upward to release the firing pin safety. At the rearward extreme of the travel of the trigger bar, the trigger bar engages the sear, which is rotated downward by the trigger bar, fully cocking, then releasing the striker and allowing the pistol to fire. The angle on the rear face of the sear causes a caming action against the striker, moving the striker to the rear very slightly, thus finishing the "cocking", according to renowned M&P gunsmith Dan Burwell[4]." |
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If HK would get off their asses and release a P30 9mm with a manual safety, I'd be happier than a pig in shit. That right there is a prime example of a "favorite" that has not yet been released the way I want...and yes...its driving me nuts. In regards to the HK45C, does that issued version only have a decocker, or does it also function as a safety to give them the opportunity to carry hammer back/safety on? I only ask because I've never seen an HK45 setup this way. I think H&K did release the P30 with a manual safety recently. Their new H&K's are decocker only (v3). |
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I do not know of many people that walk around with a gun on single action with no safety. Maybe its just me. Hi, My name is America-first and I walk around all day, every day, with a single action, striker fired, M&P .40 that is devoid of any manually activated safety devices, on my person. Not a true single action. Pulling the trigger completes the cocking. I get what you're saying but it's a little iffy to call the M&P a single action pistol. No it doesn't :-) The striker is fully cocked, but there is still pre-travel before you reach the break. Knowledge is power. "As the slide of the pistol enters battery, the striker engages the sear and is held back in a partially cocked condition. Upon the trigger of the M&P being pulled, the trigger bar first engages the firing pin safety plunger, lifting it upward to release the firing pin safety. At the rearward extreme of the travel of the trigger bar, the trigger bar engages the sear, which is rotated downward by the trigger bar, fully cocking, then releasing the striker and allowing the pistol to fire. The angle on the rear face of the sear causes a caming action against the striker, moving the striker to the rear very slightly, thus finishing the "cocking", according to renowned M&P gunsmith Dan Burwell[4]." Semantics my friend. Spend more time in tech forums and with smith reps and less time on wiki. |
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I do not know of many people that walk around with a gun on single action with no safety. Maybe its just me. Hi, My name is America-first and I walk around all day, every day, with a single action, striker fired, M&P .40 that is devoid of any manually activated safety devices, on my person. Not a true single action. Pulling the trigger completes the cocking. I get what you're saying but it's a little iffy to call the M&P a single action pistol. No it doesn't :-) The striker is fully cocked, but there is still pre-travel before you reach the break. Hmm. I won't argue with you, but I thought for certain I'd read S&W themselves say that the striker is mostly cocked when a round is chambered but not completely. Don't recall where i read that. The sear engaging the stiker technically moves it, but there is enough spring pressure loaded in the striker to fire the weapon prior to that. Old M&P marketing versus what they discuss it as today is a little different. |