Posted: 5/2/2008 8:36:28 PM EDT
| A friend of mine has a Keltec P11... it says 9mm luger on it... but he swears it shoots a .40 (it was bought used)... he hasnt shot it yet (i told him not to until I found out). A .40 fits into the chamber and the magazine (but it only fits 8 rounds max). Would a .40 fit into it if it a 9mm? Could it have been changed to take a .40? it cycles the rounds just fine. The guy he bought it from also swears its a .40. I dont know much about handguns but I noticed it also doesnt have a saftey. Is this normal? What can you guys tell me about the Keltec P11? |
What your friend (likely) has, is a P-11 with a .40S&W conversion kit installed. Kel-Tec made these conversions up until 2002. What was involved was essentially removing the takedown pin, removing the slide/barrel/recoil assembly, and replacing it with similar parts in the larger caliber. Kel-Tec also made a pistol called the P-40 which was almost identical. One of the differences was that the grip was actually marked "P-40 .40 S+W". They also came out with dedicated magazines for the P-40 and conversion kits - capacity was 9 rounds - these were marked as P-40 mags and are still available in the P-11 Accessories section of the Kel-Tec website (scroll down to "magazines" and look to the right of the picture). Since your friend can only load 8 rounds, he probably has a 9mm magazine (or has wimpy fingers  .)If your friend has a conversion kit installed, it will have a 3.3" barrel, as opposed to the P-11's 3.1" barrel. An easy way to tell is that the front of the slide will stick out about 0.25" past the front (a.k.a. dust cover area) of the plastic grip. The P-11/P-40 has a long, relatively heavy trigger like a double action revolver - no external safety was deemed necessary by the designer. The P-11 is still in production and thus quite common. The conversion kits are getting to be somewhat rare. Depending on the condition, just the upper might be worth $170-$225 or more, no FFL transfers needed if he wants to sell it over on KTOG. They also made a .357SIG conversion kit which was identical to the .40 model except for the barrel. Your friend could buy a 9mm slide/barrel/recoil assembly from Kel-Tec to replace the kit (and sell it). Or he could keep both, practice with the 9mm and carry the .40. The .40 is not a pleasant pistol to shoot for most people, which lead to its being discontinued. Tell your friend to be careful of what kind of ammo is put through the gun. .40S&W can be dangerous in some circumstances, so stick to decent brands of new factory ammo 155gr or less. Also, do not chamber the same round more than once. Doing so can push the bullet back into the case slightly, raising the pressure, and possibly causing bad things to happen. Range reloads are some of the worst quality ammo money can buy and could be dangerous in his pistol. |
| The 40 is a hot round, when Glock went to the 40 they had to add an additional pin , There is a trigger pin and a locking block pin when the 9mm only had and needed one pin for both jobs. The locking block pins are the only part that I've seen that break in a Glock. That being said, I would not shoot 40 through your gun. You will definitely shorten it's service life. |
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Most all parts, including the aluminum frame (subframe) are still in production. Even if he wore it out, KT would almost certainly replace it for him with a new one (with the same serial number). They have stated that they can/will manufacture slides/barrels etc. as needed for replacement parts if they run out, so the conversion should last indefinitely. KT warranties their firearms to the original purchaser, but in practice will repair/replace problems on multi-owner pistols unless they have been heavily modified (like barrel porting). The conversion kits have no serial numbers and can't be tracked in any event. My P-40 is particularly unpleasant to shoot, and literally makes my hands shake, so it goes last on range trips. It isn't ever going to get 150-200 rounds per session. Two or three magfuls is about all of that I really want. It is the only pistol I have ever shot that makes my hands shaky. This is why I prefer the 9mm P-11 for trigger practice. Very few shooters will have the fortitude to wear it out. |
and my understanding to is that kt no longer has replacement barrels for the kt40, so if something goes bad they are merely replacing with a 9mm, That is one of the reason why kt even droped the 40 cal, the guns could not take it. |
You understanding is incorrect. A guy bought a ported P-40 from someone, which lead to a catastrophic failure of the barrel. KT, under no obligation AT ALL as far as the warranty, repaired/replaced his pistol with readily available P-11 parts. They have stated for the record that they did this as a courtesy to the person who bought the gun this way and is a member of the KTOG forum, though it took a while for this to be clarified. They have also stated that they will continue to repair or replace the P-40 even if that means manufacturing new replacement parts that are no longer in production. Handing out parts to individuals that drill holes in their barrels and slides sends the message that it is OK to do it, which will make them run out of the parts they have on hand even sooner. When that happens, they will have to halt production of the P-11 to make the needed parts. When you consider that they are selling every P-11 they make and can't meet demand already, monkeys with drill presses could end up costing them a lot of lost revenue if they just fixed every problem. I think they are being more than fair. Try drilling a hole in a PM-40 barrel and see how willing the Unification Church is to replace it for you - with anything. According to their website Kahr would charge for non-warranty service as follows:
And since the gun had blown up due to home porting, do you seriously think they would even try and fix it under the circumstances? I think not - the owner would be SOL. As for your second bit of misinformation: Kel-Tec dropped the P-40 due to high return rates. They found nothing wrong with the guns in nearly all cases, and had to pay to ship them back. Hearing that the gun is fine probably didn't make the customer very happy. The P-40 is a handful, and not everybody can handle it. If the flinch gets bad enough, accuracy will be poor, and FTF, FTEx, and FTEj can occur. In the end, KT just decided to quit making it rather than continue to have these problems, or to change its warranty policy. The source on this is Mr. Kellgren (owner of Kel-Tec) himself. porsche, your Kel-Tecs didn't work out for you. You got rid of them and are on to new things now - you aren't buying another one I assume. So why is it you keep dropping into this forum and are now spreading bullshit? You obviously couldn't figure out your own stuff, so are useless as far technical suggestions go. That makes you a... 
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