Why hasn't S&W made a 2011 yet? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/24/2026 4:40:43 PM EDT
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Imagine a 2011 that takes S&W M&P 9 mags IMHO would sell like hotcakes |
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Originally Posted By bhouse1545: Imagine a 2011 that takes S&W M&P 9 mags IMHO would sell like hotcakes I've been thinking this as well. -M&P Mags -External extractor -Polymer no-grip safety grip module modeled after M&P grips Even more radical but imo the real "future" would be if they used their expertise in Internal Hammer Fired pistols (they make a number of them now) to create a internal hammer fired 2011 that looks like a striker pistol with a 1911 trigger. This would lower the bore axis, get rid of the exposed hammer, and probably allow for a lower manufacturing cost. S&W would be printing money with either of those (if they ran well.) |
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I hardly shoot my M&P anymore and have a lot of magazines from prior to the cutoff here. Yeah I'd take a hard look depending on cost. |
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: I've been thinking this as well. -M&P Mags -External extractor -Polymer no-grip safety grip module modeled after M&P grips Even more radical but imo the real "future" would be if they used their expertise in Internal Hammer Fired pistols (they make a number of them now) to create a internal hammer fired 2011 that looks like a striker pistol with a 1911 trigger. This would lower the bore axis, get rid of the exposed hammer, and probably allow for a lower manufacturing cost. S&W would be printing money with either of those (if they ran well.) Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By bhouse1545: Imagine a 2011 that takes S&W M&P 9 mags IMHO would sell like hotcakes I've been thinking this as well. -M&P Mags -External extractor -Polymer no-grip safety grip module modeled after M&P grips Even more radical but imo the real "future" would be if they used their expertise in Internal Hammer Fired pistols (they make a number of them now) to create a internal hammer fired 2011 that looks like a striker pistol with a 1911 trigger. This would lower the bore axis, get rid of the exposed hammer, and probably allow for a lower manufacturing cost. S&W would be printing money with either of those (if they ran well.) The Browning M1910 and M1922 had the striker and a straight pull trigger way back when. It had a very small number of parts too. I’ve never seen the inside of a Colt 1903 Hammerless but I am thinking it was similar……or maybe it wasn’t truly hammerless but had a hidden internal hammer? The 1922 was definitely a striker though. An upscaled use of the layout would still have the low bore axis. |
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: The Browning M1910 and M1922 had the striker and a straight pull trigger way back when. It had a very small number of parts too. I’ve never seen the inside of a Colt 1903 Hammerless but I am thinking it was similar……or maybe it wasn’t truly hammerless but had a hidden internal hammer? The 1922 was definitely a striker though. An upscaled use of the layout would still have the low bore axis. The Colt 1903 had a hammer concealed in the slide. While I would love to see an updated 1903 and 1910, the problem is that both of those are blowback pistols. The need for locking the action would contribute to beefing them up, and take away the svelte lines of them. And forget about wrapping the barrel with a spring, ala the 1910. Remington came closest with the R51, and that was a fiasco. |
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Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Because they’re too busy making a hundred different M&P’s on the same boring short dust cover metal frames with increasingly flamboyant and non beneficial slide serrations. Kind of agree with you on the slides. They are getting to be a little to much. I think the original 2.0 slides look good clean. |
Steve
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Originally Posted By Spartan16: Tooling is expensive. The big wigs need to be convinced to make the investment. There's not much tooling needed for a 2011 frame and they already make everything else.... now the grip frame, that could be problematic. Molds are expensive if going polymer, and machining them out of billet is always expensive. Though they could go the Kimber route and just source grips from MJD or someone. I don't doubt they're eyeing it and maybe even planning it, but if I were S&W, I would be thinking really hard about which segment of the market to shoot for. The imports will have the bottom end tied up and between Springfield, Kimber, and SIG, the sub-Staccato space is filling up pretty quick. |
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: I've been thinking this as well. -M&P Mags -External extractor -Polymer no-grip safety grip module modeled after M&P grips Even more radical but imo the real "future" would be if they used their expertise in Internal Hammer Fired pistols (they make a number of them now) to create a internal hammer fired 2011 that looks like a striker pistol with a 1911 trigger. This would lower the bore axis, get rid of the exposed hammer, and probably allow for a lower manufacturing cost. S&W would be printing money with either of those (if they ran well.) Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By bhouse1545: Imagine a 2011 that takes S&W M&P 9 mags IMHO would sell like hotcakes I've been thinking this as well. -M&P Mags -External extractor -Polymer no-grip safety grip module modeled after M&P grips Even more radical but imo the real "future" would be if they used their expertise in Internal Hammer Fired pistols (they make a number of them now) to create a internal hammer fired 2011 that looks like a striker pistol with a 1911 trigger. This would lower the bore axis, get rid of the exposed hammer, and probably allow for a lower manufacturing cost. S&W would be printing money with either of those (if they ran well.) They should just do their own gun. Something similar to the DWX. I think with their following they could make it work. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: They should just do their own gun. Something similar to the DWX. I think with their following they could make it work. Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By bhouse1545: Imagine a 2011 that takes S&W M&P 9 mags IMHO would sell like hotcakes I've been thinking this as well. -M&P Mags -External extractor -Polymer no-grip safety grip module modeled after M&P grips Even more radical but imo the real "future" would be if they used their expertise in Internal Hammer Fired pistols (they make a number of them now) to create a internal hammer fired 2011 that looks like a striker pistol with a 1911 trigger. This would lower the bore axis, get rid of the exposed hammer, and probably allow for a lower manufacturing cost. S&W would be printing money with either of those (if they ran well.) They should just do their own gun. Something similar to the DWX. I think with their following they could make it work. Yes a polymer grip DWX that takes M&P mags / has the M&P style ergos would be great. |
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Yes a polymer grip DWX that takes M&P mags / has the M&P style ergos would be great. Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By bhouse1545: Imagine a 2011 that takes S&W M&P 9 mags IMHO would sell like hotcakes I've been thinking this as well. -M&P Mags -External extractor -Polymer no-grip safety grip module modeled after M&P grips Even more radical but imo the real "future" would be if they used their expertise in Internal Hammer Fired pistols (they make a number of them now) to create a internal hammer fired 2011 that looks like a striker pistol with a 1911 trigger. This would lower the bore axis, get rid of the exposed hammer, and probably allow for a lower manufacturing cost. S&W would be printing money with either of those (if they ran well.) They should just do their own gun. Something similar to the DWX. I think with their following they could make it work. Yes a polymer grip DWX that takes M&P mags / has the M&P style ergos would be great. On 2011's I prefer the weight so I'll take a Aluminum or Steel grip. Best case they offer all three. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:I've been thinking this as well. -M&P Mags -External extractor -Polymer no-grip safety grip module modeled after M&P grips Even more radical but imo the real "future" would be if they used their expertise in Internal Hammer Fired pistols (they make a number of them now) to create a internal hammer fired 2011 that looks like a striker pistol with a 1911 trigger. This would lower the bore axis, get rid of the exposed hammer, and probably allow for a lower manufacturing cost. S&W would be printing money with either of those (if they ran well.) |
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Originally Posted By dmk0210: I like how you think! I vote for spydercomonkey as president, CEO and chief of design at S&W. Originally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:I've been thinking this as well. -M&P Mags -External extractor -Polymer no-grip safety grip module modeled after M&P grips Even more radical but imo the real "future" would be if they used their expertise in Internal Hammer Fired pistols (they make a number of them now) to create a internal hammer fired 2011 that looks like a striker pistol with a 1911 trigger. This would lower the bore axis, get rid of the exposed hammer, and probably allow for a lower manufacturing cost. S&W would be printing money with either of those (if they ran well.) Thanks man, you flatter me. I would like to figure out a way to get S&W's attention and pitch them the 'internal hammer 2011 evolution' idea though. I really do think that's the future and would be a huge seller. The S&W Shield EZ is halfway there - Internal Hammer + Grip safety. They just need to take that basic mechanism and give it a 1911 style sliding trigger and a Wire EDM sear/hammer for a great trigger pull, and plop it into a soft shooting duty pistol. 
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: On 2011's I prefer the weight so I'll take a Aluminum or Steel grip. Best case they offer all three. Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By bhouse1545: Imagine a 2011 that takes S&W M&P 9 mags IMHO would sell like hotcakes I've been thinking this as well. -M&P Mags -External extractor -Polymer no-grip safety grip module modeled after M&P grips Even more radical but imo the real "future" would be if they used their expertise in Internal Hammer Fired pistols (they make a number of them now) to create a internal hammer fired 2011 that looks like a striker pistol with a 1911 trigger. This would lower the bore axis, get rid of the exposed hammer, and probably allow for a lower manufacturing cost. S&W would be printing money with either of those (if they ran well.) They should just do their own gun. Something similar to the DWX. I think with their following they could make it work. Yes a polymer grip DWX that takes M&P mags / has the M&P style ergos would be great. On 2011's I prefer the weight so I'll take a Aluminum or Steel grip. Best case they offer all three. I like polymer (especially a soft polymer like Glock plastic) because it absorbs a surprising amount of Shock/Vibration, especially when firing +P duty loads. Firing back to back, I was shocked how much softer shooting / less jarring +P (115gr @ 1300fps) my G47 was compared to the Aluminum grip/steel safety Platypus. There was a mild tingle in my palms from the Platypus, sorta like hitting a baseball with an aluminum bat a bit funny. However the Platypus effortlessly stacked rounds on top of eachother at 15yd in brisk fire, much more easy to shoot well then the Glock. So ideally I'd like to get the soft shooting/low vibration of the Glock + the easy mode trigger of the 1911/2011. And of course for production/sales cost, a polymer grip is a huge help. Really 2011's w/ polymer grips should be cheaper then 1911's due to how much less machining is involved. |
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: I like polymer (especially a soft polymer like Glock plastic) because it absorbs a surprising amount of Shock/Vibration, especially when firing +P duty loads. Firing back to back, I was shocked how much softer shooting / less jarring +P (115gr @ 1300fps) my G47 was compared to the Aluminum grip/steel safety Platypus. There was a mild tingle in my palms from the Platypus, sorta like hitting a baseball with an aluminum bat a bit funny. |
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:Thanks man, you flatter me. I would like to figure out a way to get S&W's attention and pitch them the 'internal hammer 2011 evolution' idea though. I really do think that's the future and would be a huge seller. The S&W Shield EZ is halfway there - Internal Hammer + Grip safety. They just need to take that basic mechanism and give it a 1911 style sliding trigger and a Wire EDM sear/hammer for a great trigger pull, and plop it into a soft shooting duty pistol. This thread points out quite a few things that S&W is already making that could inject innovation into the design and bring the 2011 fully into the present day. With a lot of older guns brought back into the limelight, it's about classic retro. But the 2011, from the start being a competition gun, has a different vibe in play. This is the perfect platform for a technical reimagining, as long as they do indeed make it a faster, more accurate, more durable/reliable, or otherwise better shooting gun. Hopefully we're just still in that stage where everyone is just dipping their toe in the water and getting some experience building and selling it. Maybe better things will come when being a copycat isn't enough and some companies take the initiative to really push the envelope. Hopefully we'll see some competition in the technical aspect, like we did with one and a half stack micro compacts a decade or two ago. |
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Originally Posted By dmk0210: Yeah, in a lot of ways 2011s are still stuck in the 80s and 90's technically, just with modern marketing. With the huge popularity right now, I'd love to see some real innovation and interesting design changes. Lets see where we can go with this platform. This thread points out quite a few things that S&W is already making that could inject innovation into the design and bring the 2011 fully into the present day. With a lot of older guns brought back into the limelight, it's about classic retro. But the 2011, from the start being a competition gun, has a different vibe in play. This is the perfect platform for a technical reimagining, as long as they do indeed make it a faster, more accurate, more durable/reliable, or otherwise better shooting gun. Hopefully we're just still in that stage where everyone is just dipping their toe in the water and getting some experience building and selling it. Maybe better things will come when being a copycat isn't enough and some companies take the initiative to really push the envelope. Hopefully we'll see some competition in the technical aspect, like we did with one and a half stack micro compacts a decade or two ago. Originally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:Thanks man, you flatter me. I would like to figure out a way to get S&W's attention and pitch them the 'internal hammer 2011 evolution' idea though. I really do think that's the future and would be a huge seller. The S&W Shield EZ is halfway there - Internal Hammer + Grip safety. They just need to take that basic mechanism and give it a 1911 style sliding trigger and a Wire EDM sear/hammer for a great trigger pull, and plop it into a soft shooting duty pistol. This thread points out quite a few things that S&W is already making that could inject innovation into the design and bring the 2011 fully into the present day. With a lot of older guns brought back into the limelight, it's about classic retro. But the 2011, from the start being a competition gun, has a different vibe in play. This is the perfect platform for a technical reimagining, as long as they do indeed make it a faster, more accurate, more durable/reliable, or otherwise better shooting gun. Hopefully we're just still in that stage where everyone is just dipping their toe in the water and getting some experience building and selling it. Maybe better things will come when being a copycat isn't enough and some companies take the initiative to really push the envelope. Hopefully we'll see some competition in the technical aspect, like we did with one and a half stack micro compacts a decade or two ago. I'm hoping we see some innovation as well. We have seen Glock mags from several companies now, plus the move to external extractors. However the gun industry is pretty lazy / cautious in many respects, and in fairness consumers frequently do not reward innovation and prefer what is "proven." That said, the goldilocks city of gold in pistol design is merging the utlitarianism and low cost of the polymer striker pistol with the easy to shoot sliding trigger of the 1911/2011. And really S&W is the only large pistol company in a good position to accomplish this sort of hybrid pistol. |
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: I'm hoping we see some innovation as well. We have seen Glock mags from several companies now, plus the move to external extractors. However the gun industry is pretty lazy / cautious in many respects, and in fairness consumers frequently do not reward innovation and prefer what is "proven." That said, the goldilocks city of gold in pistol design is merging the utlitarianism and low cost of the polymer striker pistol with the easy to shoot sliding trigger of the 1911/2011. And really S&W is the only large pistol company in a good position to accomplish this sort of hybrid pistol. I really liked what Hudson did with the 1911 (now the Daniel Defense H1). There were complications in business and manufacture side, but the idea was really good. S&W would not likely have those problems. A similar level of ingenuity could be done to the 2011, and I agree that S&W would be a great company to do it since they are already manufacturing everything they need. They just need to combine it all together into one gun. |
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Originally Posted By ken_mays: The DWX was a great approach to updating the 2011. It gets rid of two of the hoariest features - the grip safety and the link lockup - and one of the worst workarounds: the double stack, single feed mag sized for .45. I would think a similar gun would sell for most of the big OEM’s. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By ken_mays: The DWX was a great approach to updating the 2011. It gets rid of two of the hoariest features - the grip safety and the link lockup - and one of the worst workarounds: the double stack, single feed mag sized for .45. |
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Originally Posted By ken_mays: The DWX was a great approach to updating the 2011. It gets rid of two of the hoariest features - the grip safety and the link lockup - and one of the worst workarounds: the double stack, single feed mag sized for .45. Absolutely, DWX really showed the way forward. They recognized that the only part of the 1911/2011 that's really needed is the sliding single action trigger. What I imagine for S&W would be: Level 1: a sort of polymer frame DWX with M&P ergos and mags. Level 2: the above, but going to Internal Hammer Fired design On a related note, the DWX uses a Chasis style trigger system. They could easily develop a polymer frame version, but Dan Wesson is seems determined to pursue a sort of 'reverse alchemy,' where they will turn a solid gold design into a lead balloon for sales. |
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:On a related note, the DWX uses a Chasis style trigger system. They could easily develop a polymer frame version, but Dan Wesson is seems determined to pursue a sort of 'reverse alchemy,' where they will turn a solid gold design into a lead balloon for sales. |
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Originally Posted By dmk0210: I don't understand why everyone is so fixated on metal frames lately. I guess it's just weight to mitigate recoil. That makes sense it's it's a steel frame and grip. But it is possible to strategically add tungsten weights into a polymer frame. Aluminum grips and frames just make no sense to me. Originally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:On a related note, the DWX uses a Chasis style trigger system. They could easily develop a polymer frame version, but Dan Wesson is seems determined to pursue a sort of 'reverse alchemy,' where they will turn a solid gold design into a lead balloon for sales. It’s because they work well. Target guns have been heavy forever. There’s no perfect weight because a lot of it is preference but in general a heavy gun is easier to shoot than a lighter gun. Any full-size pistol is heavy enough to be ok but it’s clear that weight added low helps controlling recoil. The argument on whether people are good enough for it to matter much is an entirely different thing. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: It’s because they work well. Target guns have been heavy forever. There’s no perfect weight because a lot of it is preference but in general a heavy gun is easier to shoot than a lighter gun. Any full-size pistol is heavy enough to be ok but it’s clear that weight added low helps controlling recoil. The argument on whether people are good enough for it to matter much is an entirely different thing. But why aluminum? If added weight is the goal, why not steel? Or if steel is too heavy, why not polymer with tungsten weights added? Before polymer frames became the norm, guns were steel framed. Aluminum was used in frames to lighten the gun. It's lighter than steel, but doesn't absorb recoil like polymer. So for recoil reduction, it has the worst features of the three. |
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Originally Posted By dmk0210: I get that weight mitigates recoil. That's obvious. But why aluminum? If added weight is the goal, why not steel? Or if steel is too heavy, why not polymer with tungsten weights added? Before polymer frames became the norm, guns were steel framed. Aluminum was used in frames to lighten the gun. It's lighter than steel, but doesn't absorb recoil like polymer. So for recoil reduction, it has the worst features of the three. Originally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: It’s because they work well. Target guns have been heavy forever. There’s no perfect weight because a lot of it is preference but in general a heavy gun is easier to shoot than a lighter gun. Any full-size pistol is heavy enough to be ok but it’s clear that weight added low helps controlling recoil. The argument on whether people are good enough for it to matter much is an entirely different thing. But why aluminum? If added weight is the goal, why not steel? Or if steel is too heavy, why not polymer with tungsten weights added? Before polymer frames became the norm, guns were steel framed. Aluminum was used in frames to lighten the gun. It's lighter than steel, but doesn't absorb recoil like polymer. So for recoil reduction, it has the worst features of the three. I think you are making broad statements that aren't true about every platform. The whole point is being able to fine tune it to your liking. Tons of high level competition shooters have been using aluminum and steel grips for their 2011's and with what they cost I don't think people would continue to choose them. People talk about the recoil absorbtion of polymer a lot and yet metal framed guns are almost always chosen when the rules allow it. As to why aluminum you have several positive attributes. Readily available Easy to machine Fairly robust and stiff |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
|
Originally Posted By dmk0210: I don't understand why everyone is so fixated on metal frames lately. I guess it's just weight to mitigate recoil. That makes sense it's it's a steel frame and grip. But it is possible to strategically add tungsten weights into a polymer frame. Aluminum grips and frames just make no sense to me. Originally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:On a related note, the DWX uses a Chasis style trigger system. They could easily develop a polymer frame version, but Dan Wesson is seems determined to pursue a sort of 'reverse alchemy,' where they will turn a solid gold design into a lead balloon for sales. Steel is good because weight. Aluminum is trash because it's not meaningfully heavier then polymer, and transfers all the shock impulse into the hand that polymer would have helped deaden. M&P Polymer 29oz M&P Aluminum 30oz For the "S&W11" I think the move is the classic 2011 / Sphinx SDP setup. Steel "frame" for recoil mitigation with a polymer grip for shock absorption and low cost.  They could also pursue - perhaps as a lower cost/duty/carry offering - what Kimber did with their very innovative "Kimber Ten" pistol, which was a true fully polymer frame highcap 1911. 
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Steel is good because weight. Aluminum is trash because it's not meaningfully heavier then polymer, and transfers all the shock impulse into the hand that polymer would have helped deaden. M&P Polymer 29oz M&P Aluminum 30oz For the "S&W11" I think the move is the classic 2011 / Sphinx SDP setup. Steel "frame" for recoil mitigation with a polymer grip for shock absorption and low cost. https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Assets/ProductImages/DSC_4435__651631532884958.jpg They could also pursue - perhaps as a lower cost/duty/carry offering - what Kimber did with their very innovative "Kimber Ten" pistol, which was a true fully polymer frame highcap 1911. https://gunvalues.gundigest.com/gunValues/images/Firearms2017_Fall/large/201013154903-1.png Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:On a related note, the DWX uses a Chasis style trigger system. They could easily develop a polymer frame version, but Dan Wesson is seems determined to pursue a sort of 'reverse alchemy,' where they will turn a solid gold design into a lead balloon for sales. Steel is good because weight. Aluminum is trash because it's not meaningfully heavier then polymer, and transfers all the shock impulse into the hand that polymer would have helped deaden. M&P Polymer 29oz M&P Aluminum 30oz For the "S&W11" I think the move is the classic 2011 / Sphinx SDP setup. Steel "frame" for recoil mitigation with a polymer grip for shock absorption and low cost. https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Assets/ProductImages/DSC_4435__651631532884958.jpg They could also pursue - perhaps as a lower cost/duty/carry offering - what Kimber did with their very innovative "Kimber Ten" pistol, which was a true fully polymer frame highcap 1911. https://gunvalues.gundigest.com/gunValues/images/Firearms2017_Fall/large/201013154903-1.png If Aluminum is trash why are companies like Limcat, Atlas, Cheely, MPA etc doing them? |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: If Aluminum is trash why are companies like Limcat, Atlas, Cheely, MPA etc doing them? Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:On a related note, the DWX uses a Chasis style trigger system. They could easily develop a polymer frame version, but Dan Wesson is seems determined to pursue a sort of 'reverse alchemy,' where they will turn a solid gold design into a lead balloon for sales. Steel is good because weight. Aluminum is trash because it's not meaningfully heavier then polymer, and transfers all the shock impulse into the hand that polymer would have helped deaden. M&P Polymer 29oz M&P Aluminum 30oz For the "S&W11" I think the move is the classic 2011 / Sphinx SDP setup. Steel "frame" for recoil mitigation with a polymer grip for shock absorption and low cost. https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Assets/ProductImages/DSC_4435__651631532884958.jpg They could also pursue - perhaps as a lower cost/duty/carry offering - what Kimber did with their very innovative "Kimber Ten" pistol, which was a true fully polymer frame highcap 1911. https://gunvalues.gundigest.com/gunValues/images/Firearms2017_Fall/large/201013154903-1.png If Aluminum is trash why are companies like Limcat, Atlas, Cheely, MPA etc doing them? Their primary competition / flagship models are with steel 'frames' / chasis. Aluminum grip modules are used for several reasons: -they are lighter then steel -they are cheaper / easier to machine then steel -they look cooler / provide a sense of being fancier then polymer And most importantly: -machined grips can be batch produced as needed and easily changed / evolved based on customer feedback, with a much lower capital investment. Polymer grip frames require a $50k+ mould that cannot be easily changed and will only become profitable in high volume production. .. If you get a chance to shoot an aluminum frame/grip pistol with +p/+p+ next to a Glock or CZ P09 etc soft polymer pistol, the shock impulse is radically different. I discovered this shooting a CZ 75 next to a CZ P09, and then again shooting a Platypus next to a G47. The steel grip safety on some polymer 2011's also transfer a good ammount of shock force as well, which is why the ideal is a no safety polymer grip. Really, the ideal ideal is the Sphinx SDP style: metal 'chasis' with a polymer grip with soft rubber backstap. SDP is a very soft shooter even with 9mm Major 124gr @ 1360fps.  S&W already uses a similar backstap system on the M&P, it would just need to switch from a polymer backstrap to a hogue style soft rubber backstrap for comfymaxxing. |
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I agree with the opinion the 2011 market is relatively small, not a big return on investment there. Until staccato hit heavy with marketing and well built guns the 2011 was niche with competitive shooters only, and was dying out to more modern cheaper guns. Everyone has various tastes, but for the vast majority of shooters, a 2011 doesn’t do anything better than a glock 19 or any number of a dozen designs at a fraction of the cost. |
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Originally Posted By Northcountry06: This bears repeating Originally Posted By Northcountry06: Originally Posted By wvfarrier: because the newer M&P HDs are better than most 2011s at 1/4 the price. This bears repeating What's better about them? |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.