Posted: 7/31/2025 11:06:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: kingfish][Edited]
| Why is this model the best sig ever made? And why hasn’t sig gone back to that design? With more modern production techniques, it could be made for less $ and certainly outperform anything else |
|
It’s not. The best would be a hybrid of a USA milled slide, USA made Combat frame, and German barrel, internal parts, and attention to detail/fitting. The stamped slide and two piece breech was never what Sig wanted to do, it was all they could afford to do at the time. In the 80’s a pistol lifespan of over or around 10,000 rounds was decent. Now days Sig would be defunct if P226’s were still cracking frames left and right. It would be even worse of a modern look than the India MIM. Even with most people never putting that much ammo through a gun. Large scale skilled labor and stamping dies were cheaper than CNC machinery back then. Now the reverse is true by an astronomical margin. |
|
I seriously doubt an all stainless steel, fully machined slide with a machined alloy frame could be made cheaper than a molded polymer frame and a folded steel slide. Why do people say obviously dumb things like this with such confidence? Weren't the 2022s supposed to be the plastic version of the classic 22x guns? I could be mistaken, but they aren't considered to be special. I agree, op. I didn't have a 226, but I had a 220, and it was like driving a Cadillac on a road of silk. |
"Now none of the frightened soldiers moved, for they saw that cowardice and valor purchased equal plots in the sniper's killing field."
"Not interested in a lecture by either side”
- isaidme
"Not interested in a lecture by either side”
- isaidme
|
Originally Posted By mudholestomper: I seriously doubt an all stainless steel, fully machined slide with a machined alloy frame could be made cheaper than a molded polymer frame and a folded steel slide. Why do people say obviously dumb things like this with such confidence? Weren't the 2022s supposed to be the plastic version of the classic 22x guns? I could be mistaken, but they aren't considered to be special. I agree, op. I didn't have a 226, but I had a 220, and it was like driving a Cadillac on a road of silk. The SP2022 gets a bad rap only because it’s not an all metal classic p22X series gun. The P22X guns were too expensive compared to all the polymer, striker fired options to win a lot of big LEO contracts. The Sig Pro (2009, 2022, 2340), were meant to be an affordable option which utilized Sig’s manual of arms of the period in order to compete with the likes of Glock and others. The civilian market turned their nose to it, complaining it wasn’t a “real” Sig. It stayed that way for a long time in the civilian market, though for those that gave it a chance they found themselves with a quality firearm, with a really good trigger (not a P22X trigger) at some amazing prices. Whether people like them or not, they are built to much higher standards, with an extreme level of quality control than most of their competition. I’ve probably owned two dozen P22X series guns, all of which were great, no complaints at all. After I bought my first 2022, I liked it so much I bought another one. They make great truck, garage, camp guns as they are super reliable, have a great manual of arms and are dirt cheap. If something happens to it I won’t be as crushed as if I banged up a thousand dollar P220. For someone on a budget who wants the added safety of a da/sa gun that will last a lifetime, the 2022 is a great choice. It’s like a Glock, as it’s a tool, not a work of art or a BBQ gun. Only bad thing is if you want to accessorize, there’s not a lot of options. Other than that, a great gun  |
|
Originally Posted By mudholestomper: I seriously doubt an all stainless steel, fully machined slide with a machined alloy frame could be made cheaper than a molded polymer frame and a folded steel slide. The polymer frame, definitely not. The equipment for stamping, the maintenance of dies, and skilled labor to weld and fit everything is immensely more expensive in the long run than the process of buying and operating a CNC. |
|
Originally Posted By Michaelrm: The SP2022 gets a bad rap only because it’s not an all metal classic p22X series gun. The P22X guns were too expensive compared to all the polymer, striker fired options to win a lot of big LEO contracts. The Sig Pro (2009, 2022, 2340), were meant to be an affordable option which utilized Sig’s manual of arms of the period in order to compete with the likes of Glock and others. The civilian market turned their nose to it, complaining it wasn’t a “real” Sig. It stayed that way for a long time in the civilian market, though for those that gave it a chance they found themselves with a quality firearm, with a really good trigger (not a P22X trigger) at some amazing prices. Whether people like them or not, they are built to much higher standards, with an extreme level of quality control than most of their competition. I’ve probably owned two dozen P22X series guns, all of which were great, no complaints at all. After I bought my first 2022, I liked it so much I bought another one. They make great truck, garage, camp guns as they are super reliable, have a great manual of arms and are dirt cheap. If something happens to it I won’t be as crushed as if I banged up a thousand dollar P220. For someone on a budget who wants the added safety of a da/sa gun that will last a lifetime, the 2022 is a great choice. It’s like a Glock, as it’s a tool, not a work of art or a BBQ gun. Only bad thing is if you want to accessorize, there’s not a lot of options. Other than that, a great gun Agreed. In some respects I like the 2022 better than the classic P series. I find the ergonomics superior, at least for my hands. |
My 226 is a West German gun and was first gun I bought when I moved to Virginia from New Jersey in 93. Got my Virginia drivers license and went into gun store, walked out 20 minutes later with my new 226 thinking "I'm going to love Virginia". I do not know about now, back then Jersey had a five day waiting period when you bought a hand gun so being able to walk in and out of a gun store with a new pistol the same day was a shock to me. I gave mine to my son not too long ago as he use to drool over it, he's going to wind up with my guns someday anyway so I told him "let me enjoy giving you this now"... he didn't say no.. 
|
My wife says I'm totally useless..that's not true.. I can be used as a bad example
|
Originally Posted By mudholestomper: I seriously doubt an all stainless steel, fully machined slide with a machined alloy frame could be made cheaper than a molded polymer frame and a folded steel slide. Why do people say obviously dumb things like this with such confidence? Weren't the 2022s supposed to be the plastic version of the classic 22x guns? I could be mistaken, but they aren't considered to be special. I agree, op. I didn't have a 226, but I had a 220, and it was like driving a Cadillac on a road of silk. I thought the slide was stamped? |
|
Originally Posted By kingfish: Rude of me to not include a pic. This is one of the two I have https://i.ibb.co/n8ZXfCP8/IMG-7317.jpg Whether or not they are the "Best Sig" is debatable for sure. What isn't, is that the stamped slides are absolutely the worst for suppressor use. Nothing but blowback! Or I should state, blowthrough. |
Joined:
Mar 2025
Posts:
269
EE: 0% (0)
FL, USA
|
Originally Posted By wganz: their SP2022 is their best full size synthetic frame pistol Is $289 OTD a good price for a 2022? (Only one magazine, no box) |
“I don’t want a valuable life lesson, I just want an ice cream.”
Space Corps Directive 196156: 'Any officer caught sniffing the saddle of the exercise bicycle in the women's gym will be discharged without trial.'
Space Corps Directive 196156: 'Any officer caught sniffing the saddle of the exercise bicycle in the women's gym will be discharged without trial.'
Everybody's got their dues in life to pay
Joined:
Dec 2000
Posts:
10274
EE: 100% (204)
NC, USA
|
Originally Posted By FishKepr: Is $289 OTD a good price for a 2022? (Only one magazine, no box) Originally Posted By FishKepr: Originally Posted By wganz: their SP2022 is their best full size synthetic frame pistol 
|
Moderate-Length Barrel Evangelist
Joined:
Jun 2022
Posts:
4555
EE: 100% (11)
USA
|
228 definitely beats 226. Originally Posted By aod886: Whether or not they are the "Best Sig" is debatable for sure. What isn't, is that the stamped slides are absolutely the worst for suppressor use. Nothing but blowback! Or I should state, blowthrough. |
|
Originally Posted By 1168RGR: 228 definitely beats 226. I’ve wondered, but haven’t tried to check, if the 229 is a better silencer host than the 228. I would think they'd be comparable. Of the two mentioned, I only have the 229. It suppresses well. Attached File |
|
I'm old enough to have been issued a W. German Sig. I carried it for years. It was a great pistol...but it wasn't magic. The folded/stamped steel slides would crack at round counts that a Glock would take easily. The fixed (no spring) extractor would wear out and lose tension. The double roll pin for the locking block was 1 time use and could break or walk out during use. Detail stripping to clean was an exercise in small parts, springs, and screws. It would rust badly if not oiled. The barrel and bore were uncoated carbon steel and would rust from simply being carried IWB. I saw guns locked up from rust. It carried less ammo than similar sized Glocks. The mags with the plastic base plates would break and dump rounds all over the ground. That said, it was a very well made and effective pistol. I loved it and would buy it today if they sold it. |
|
The 220 and 226 in 9mm and 40 came along as the handgun market was changing to plastic. The Sigs, 3gen S&W, beretta 92 and the 1911 had sealed the fate of revolvers I had friends who carried 220s and 226s as duty weapons. Handgun rails for the most part were a novelty at best. There weren’t any rails on the original Glocks even I loved the grip on the SIGs I had a 220 for a while But my agency was still issuing Model 66 with 38+p For some reason the blackstrap tended to rust On duty weapons The 7 round mag for the 220 was another negative One trooper told me when they went to the Glock 21 that he hated it. BUT HE SHOT BETTER WITH THE GLOCK. I can’t say the same |
|
Originally Posted By aod886: I would think they'd be comparable. Of the two mentioned, I only have the 229. It suppresses well. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/249712/Sig_P229_9mm_with_SiCo_Omega_9K___1__jpg-3611294.JPG Originally Posted By aod886: Originally Posted By 1168RGR: 228 definitely beats 226. I’ve wondered, but haven’t tried to check, if the 229 is a better silencer host than the 228. I would think they'd be comparable. Of the two mentioned, I only have the 229. It suppresses well. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/249712/Sig_P229_9mm_with_SiCo_Omega_9K___1__jpg-3611294.JPG None of my sigs have threaded barrels, sadly… |
Not fly enough to be halal....
|
It really wasn’t. Folded and welded with a pinned breech block and internal extractor. They did a great job doing that, but the switch to milled stainless with an external extractor is better. Everyone has their nostalgia about how perfect the W. German classics were. They were good, no doubt. But today’s are better. One thing the old ones were probably better with was finishing. |
|
Originally Posted By BuddyChryst: It really wasn’t. Folded and welded with a pinned breech block and internal extractor. They did a great job doing that, but the switch to milled stainless with an external extractor is better. Everyone has their nostalgia about how perfect the W. German classics were. They were good, no doubt. But today’s are better. One thing the old ones were probably better with was finishing. My sigs live in harmony with rugers, glocks, colts, kimbers, and who knows what else… |
Not fly enough to be halal....
| I’ve owned W German 226/228/P6 and was issued a WG 228 and put thousands of rounds through it. We traded our WG guns in when the 226R and 229R were first released. Then I owned personal 226Rs and 229Rs. A Blackwater edition 226R was the first RMR direct milled optic gun I carried on duty starting in 2012. And finally, I carried a 2013 mfg 229R (with a RMR equipped slide) for 8 years before ditching it for a Glock 19. Of all of those, the original 226R/229R were the best models, IMHO. The 2013 versions were shit and we had issues with out of spec parts from the very beginning. |
The voices in my head say I’m just being paranoid
Joined:
Oct 2013
Posts:
41239
EE: 100% (120)
KY, USA
Member
Joined:
Feb 2022
Posts:
1727
EE: 100% (36)
GA, USA
| They weren’t. Far from it. Typical life span of a pistol back then was measured in 10s of thousands of rounds. If you got a service life plus 20,000 rounds you were doing well. The German Sigs had tolerances all over the place because almost nothing was made using modern CNC machines, they were made using various mills and lathes and while the people that did the work were exceptional craftsmen for their time, they just couldn’t compete with computer controlled machines. The P226 you buy today will outlast any P226 you bought in 1990. Especially when you factor in the modern P226 has a stainless steel slide vs a carbon folded slide in the older P226s. If I had to choice a single P226 model to crown the best it would have to be the MK25. It is probably the best iteration of the series, SS slide, machined tool steel extractor, chrome lined barrel, superior finish. |
Everybody's got their dues in life to pay
Joined:
Dec 2000
Posts:
10329
EE: 100% (204)
NC, USA
|
Originally Posted By EHilderbrand: Sorry, but it's the 228 that reigns supreme in that world. (I want an old P226 for my collection, who am I kidding.) https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54750283373_26b12569da_b.jpg  |
|
I have 2 old P226 that i love. One "German", one "W. German". One is near mint in the factory box with all the papers. One is a "user" and was one of my CCW guns for a while. The CCW i believe was a trade in that had some cosmetic wear. I sent it out years ago and had the slide redone by Walter Birdsong in his Black T. I dont think he is still around. Also had night sights installed and a SRT. Also sports a Sig factory left hand thread threaded barrel and is a great suppressor host. Shots like a dream. Both of these along with my old P220 and mint P225 are forever guns in my small collection. I admit i have some issues with them that training should address. My high thumb grip does hit the slide lock at times. But other than that i literally think I have never had any type of stoppage with any of them. I cant say they are the "best", but they are my favorite and carry a nostalgia that the newer Sigs just dont have for me. To me they fit into the same group as a nice 1911, Ruger MkII, S&W 686 pre lock 4" as must haves. I have all of those and love them. I would imagine a nice Hi-Power should be added at some point to round it out. |
The cost of treason isn't paid in Dollars.
Joined:
Sep 2012
Posts:
6839
EE: 100% (3)
USA
|
Originally Posted By FedDC: I'm old enough to have been issued a W. German Sig. I carried it for years. It was a great pistol...but it wasn't magic. The folded/stamped steel slides would crack at round counts that a Glock would take easily. The fixed (no spring) extractor would wear out and lose tension. The double roll pin for the locking block was 1 time use and could break or walk out during use. Detail stripping to clean was an exercise in small parts, springs, and screws. It would rust badly if not oiled. The barrel and bore were uncoated carbon steel and would rust from simply being carried IWB. I saw guns locked up from rust. It carried less ammo than similar sized Glocks. The mags with the plastic base plates would break and dump rounds all over the ground. That said, it was a very well made and effective pistol. I loved it and would buy it today if they sold it. There were a handful of P228s Sig sold to DOD around 2015ish (IIRC); non-railed P228s with milled stainless slides and the newer black finish rather than oarkerizing. I'd like to get my hands on one of those, but I'm sure the prices on them are ridiculous if any fell into private hands. |
|
The 1pc stainless slides are just a better design. They'd stamp the slide, weld on the front and rear, blend that togather, then fit and pin in the breach block. Thats a lot of labor and fitting. The only advantage I see was it was lighter weight. |
|
The modern stainless milled slide and better alloy modern 22x guns are better guns then the old west German ones. The west German guns are pretty and nostalgic but aren’t as good shooters or as durable. Srt, better grip options, just everything. Also, the old finishes looked nicer but sucked for corrosion resistance. I was happy to switch out my 228 for a 229r for the size. |
|
The 80's/early 90's 226s definitely have the cool factor being the original design, made in West Germany, triple proof marked, etc. and if you are a collector, I can see why they are more desirable. Heck, If I came across an early 90's model in NIB/LNIB for the right price, I'd FO That said, they are not "better". IMO the newer models are superior if you actually plan on using them for SD. Milled slides, optics cuts, accessory rails, external exactors are all improvements. Another big one for me is the newer undercut frames like on the Legion series or newer Elite models. That undercut makes a huge difference for me. I'm down to 3 P226's but they all have Legion frames. |
On going to war over religion: "You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend." - Richard Jeni
|
Don't know about "best," but this one has been an absolute gem. Attached File I have a W. German P220 that is also superb. Both had the Sig SSP/AEP/SRT treatment. |
"Whisky for the gentlemen that like it. And for the gentlemen that don't like it - Whisky!" -Alec Guinness as MAJ (acting Colonel) Jock Sinclair, D.S.O., M.M. "Tunes of Glory"
|
Originally Posted By Ranger431: My West German P228 shoots like an absolute dream - love that gun! Agree. Likewise my W.G. 226. They just feel so comfortable in my hand when I shoot them. Maybe they’re heavy and the styling is a bit out of date, but for sheer natural shooting feel, I can’t beat them. |
Not fly enough to be halal....