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AR15.COM
12/6/2008 4:25:46 AM EDT
......are both in/near Berryville, Arkanses.  Anyone know the story behind that?  Was NH an offshoot of WC or vice versa?

Also, any opinions on the QC comparison between the two?  I'm thinking of investing in a quality custom for myself and to pass down.
12/6/2008 5:46:25 AM EDT
[#1]
Wilson has been around quite a while, far longer then Nighthawk I believe. Either place will build you a quality firearm that you will be prowd to own and use.
12/6/2008 6:04:59 AM EDT
[#2]
Wilson has been around at least 20years. Nighthawk popped up three or four years back. The story I heard (for what thats worth) is that some of the guys that worked at Wilson left to start up their own company. So I guess that even though they (NH) hasn't been around real long the guys building their guns have.

Take this for what its worth since it 3rd hand info.
12/6/2008 6:55:01 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Wilson has been around at least 20years. Nighthawk popped up three or four years back. The story I heard (for what thats worth) is that some of the guys that worked at Wilson left to start up their own company. So I guess that even though they (NH) hasn't been around real long the guys building their guns have.  Take this for what its worth since it 3rd hand info.


That seems to be what I heard, but can't remember where I heard it.  I plan to retire up there in Carrol County, so I need to get to know these guys - I was thinking of visiting their shops on a trip sometime.  Maybe get one of each?  
12/6/2008 9:43:08 AM EDT
[#4]
One of the nicer things about Nighthawk is their willingness to customize the gun with anything you want.  You can send them a part and they will use it, if possible.

Nighthawk is as custom as you want it to be.  From what I've seen, it's hard to get Wilson to deviate from the catalog.

Of the ones I've seen, the quality between the two is on par.  I chose Nighthawk over Wilson when deciding where to spend my money primarily due to the feedback and examples I'd seen at gun shows compared to the Wilson's.
12/6/2008 10:40:28 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
One of the nicer things about Nighthawk is their willingness to customize the gun with anything you want.  You can send them a part and they will use it, if possible.

Nighthawk is as custom as you want it to be.  From what I've seen, it's hard to get Wilson to deviate from the catalog.

Of the ones I've seen, the quality between the two is on par.  I chose Nighthawk over Wilson when deciding where to spend my money primarily due to the feedback and examples I'd seen at gun shows compared to the Wilson's.


I cannot give much of an in-depth rebuttal with respect to the willingness of customization each will go to for the customer but that first statement is indeed false if not misleading. I have made numerous requests from Wilson Combat, both on a purchase as well as a future project, and though I have not deviated in the extreme, I had certainly pushed my preferences beyond the catalog. Every request I made was something they would freely acommodate.

I mentioned this before in another thread and its relevance applies here. NH guys left the Wilson fold to make their own line at a time where Wilson did not receive the same kudos for greatness it once did. Although it might not correlate completely, I find it telling that within years of the departure, Wilson enjoyed its reputation for quality anew whereas NH began to take a nose dive in terms of quality/customer satisfaction. Take that however you will. My first gripe with NH is that their presentation doesn't speak to me at all. It's showy IMO, to the point of gold teeth and 22" rims.

The second issue deals with their product. Assuming the quality issue has no correlation with certain people leaving NH and NH experiencing problems (something I have no problem going either way on), you still have this outfit that found it necessary to do things radically different from their parent outfit. They talked a big game about what made them different and special, and to date they have yet to deliver a product that is either different or superior enough to warrant another outfit, IMO. I stick with the original and I am extremly satisfied with my choice. Look at both platforms and go with what speaks to you and your application if these are your choices. Your needs and tastes may differ radically from mine or the next guy's.
12/6/2008 12:03:17 PM EDT
[#6]
who left? You talking about Ron? His son is still at NH btw and Ron is still very much involved, he only handles their Masters Edition 1911s much like he did before.

So you don't like Nighthawk because they don't make a product surperior enough to Wilson to warrant them leaving and starting their own company?
12/6/2008 12:15:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
One of the nicer things about Nighthawk is their willingness to customize the gun with anything you want.  You can send them a part and they will use it, if possible.

Nighthawk is as custom as you want it to be.  From what I've seen, it's hard to get Wilson to deviate from the catalog.

Of the ones I've seen, the quality between the two is on par.  I chose Nighthawk over Wilson when deciding where to spend my money primarily due to the feedback and examples I'd seen at gun shows compared to the Wilson's.


I cannot give much of an in-depth rebuttal with respect to the willingness of customization each will go to for the customer but that first statement is indeed false if not misleading. I have made numerous requests from Wilson Combat, both on a purchase as well as a future project, and though I have not deviated in the extreme, I had certainly pushed my preferences beyond the catalog. Every request I made was something they would freely acommodate.

I mentioned this before in another thread and its relevance applies here. NH guys left the Wilson fold to make their own line at a time where Wilson did not receive the same kudos for greatness it once did. Although it might not correlate completely, I find it telling that within years of the departure, Wilson enjoyed its reputation for quality anew whereas NH began to take a nose dive in terms of quality/customer satisfaction. Take that however you will. My first gripe with NH is that their presentation doesn't speak to me at all. It's showy IMO, to the point of gold teeth and 22" rims.

The second issue deals with their product. Assuming the quality issue has no correlation with certain people leaving NH and NH experiencing problems (something I have no problem going either way on), you still have this outfit that found it necessary to do things radically different from their parent outfit. They talked a big game about what made them different and special, and to date they have yet to deliver a product that is either different or superior enough to warrant another outfit, IMO. I stick with the original and I am extremly satisfied with my choice. Look at both platforms and go with what speaks to you and your application if these are your choices. Your needs and tastes may differ radically from mine or the next guy's.


What constitutes a showy 1911? I keep hearing from the 1911 enthusiasts that they're essentially the .451 equivalent of "DEAGLE WIT DA BEAMZ YO"

And is there anywhere I can read about Nighthawks "kimber-esque" fall in quality etc?
12/6/2008 6:12:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:

So you don't like Nighthawk because they don't make a product surperior enough to Wilson to warrant them leaving and starting their own company?


I don't like NH based on personal preference out of the gate, which is purely subjective. The reports I have seen of certain examples (though they may exist with all outfits) haven't done much to sway my opinion of them. As for your question... they can make an identical or even an inferior product to Wilson and need no reason other than the desire to make their own brand of 1911, As to justification of buying a NH over a Wilson, I would say they need to be radically or different than a Wison to justify the purchase, but maybe that's just me.

12/7/2008 4:04:48 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
One of the nicer things about Nighthawk is their willingness to customize the gun with anything you want.  You can send them a part and they will use it, if possible.

...


I cannot give much of an in-depth rebuttal with respect to the willingness of customization each will go to for the customer but that first statement is indeed false if not misleading. I have made numerous requests from Wilson Combat, both on a purchase as well as a future project, and though I have not deviated in the extreme, I had certainly pushed my preferences beyond the catalog. Every request I made was something they would freely acommodate.



I didn't mean to imply Wilson wouldn't accomodate requests.  However, based on what I've seen on various forums, there are a number of people who complain about Wilson when it comes to customizing the gun.

Since I have no personal experience with Wilson directly, that is what I have to go on –– much like you and Nighthawk.  Of course, the majority of the internet posts can be full of crap related to this, so it's quite possible that Wilson accomodates most anything the customer asks.

I am curious, however, what do you find showy about a Nighthawk?  Mind you, I agree there are some models that have abnoxious rollmarks (the GRP's big GRP is something I'm not a fan of), but you can always order the gun with the logo removed. I don't see them being any worse than any other manufacturer, in general.

I suppose Nighthawk puts their hawk logo on one side of the slide, which is a bit more "gaudy" than the simple "Wilson Combat", but no worse than the Colt Pony, in my opinion.
12/7/2008 10:42:40 AM EDT
[#10]
According to one of those "Guns And Ammo Complete Book of the .45" issues a couple years ago, Bill Wilson's nasty divorce a few years back touched off the whole thing. Wilson the Younger took his mom's side, and moved across town and opened Wilson Tactical, where he seemed to specialize in knives and shotguns. Some of the longtime shop guys got sick of the drama and moved across town and set up a shop of their own.
12/7/2008 6:19:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:


I am curious, however, what do you find showy about a Nighthawk?  Mind you, I agree there are some models that have abnoxious rollmarks (the GRP's big GRP is something I'm not a fan of), but you can always order the gun with the logo removed. I don't see them being any worse than any other manufacturer, in general.

I suppose Nighthawk puts their hawk logo on one side of the slide, which is a bit more "gaudy" than the simple "Wilson Combat", but no worse than the Colt Pony, in my opinion.


I think you addressed my issues with NH's gaudiness above. Your point about Colt stands as well. Some of their rollmarks are showy yet classy like the NRM 1991s whereas others are garish and tacky like the billboard S70s and the hideous ORM 1991s.