Posted: 11/6/2009 12:15:03 PM EDT
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I recently won a nice chunk at the casino and have been wanting a 1911 for a while. I have other pistols long guns and shotguns, but have not purchased a 1911. I said if I ever got one I would get the Kimber raptor. I love that gun and have held one and love it just as much in person. But since I have a little more to spend then I think I may get a real nice one.
My question is.... NIghthawk is an expensive gun and Wilson almost doubles in some models. Im really not wanting to spend more than 2500 but would maybe go a little over. I see they are in the same town so I figured one must really just be a spinoff of the other. Are they worth the price or would I be happy with the custom shop Kimber Raptor at the 12-1300 range? |
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IMHO I never buy the most expensive model of gun from a biggie like NightHawk or Wilson. Look at the model's they are best known for and are reasonably priced considering the options. I would look at:
Ed Brown Special Forces Springfield Armory Professional Wilson Combat CQB NightHawk GRP There are many other choices as well like Les Baer, but these four stand out to me, and I really like the first two I mentioned. |
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The Nighthawk and Wilson are leagues ahead of the Kimber.
I have a Nighthawk (Enforcer base + custom stuff) and it is extremely smooth, extremely accurate, and extremely reliable. If you have the funds, I'd say throw down for a Nighthawk or Wilson. Nighthawk was started by former Wilson employees, though they're styles are very similar, the pistols are definitely different. I obviously prefer Nighthawk, primarily due to better available finishes and more willingness in custom work. Nighthawk is as custom as you want it to be. Wilson, at least from what I've heard, is not as easy to deal with when making vast custom changes to a particular model. This may have changed recently, but I'd certainly seen that as a trend for some time. I find certain models of both Nighthawk and Wilson extremely overpriced, though I see that more with Wilson than anything else. Maybe a case of paying for the name. In that league, though, you may want to look at some custom shops like Miller Custom or others. |
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Yeah I really dont want to pay for a Name. I want a GUN that is nice. Im not the type guy who buys something just to say, I've got a yada yada yada look how big my balls are. I am not a rich man by any means but guns are my hobby so I figure this is my chance to buy something nice for myself. I am thinking the nighthawk may be the way to go. I just dont think I can pay some of those wilson prices. I guess I am going to just have to sit down and study what I want as opposed to what I really need.
No one around here carries either gun so Im going to be buying any of these blindly. |
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IMHO I never buy the most expensive model of gun from a biggie like NightHawk or Wilson. Look at the model's they are best known for and are reasonably priced considering the options. I would look at: Ed Brown Special Forces Springfield Armory Professional Wilson Combat CQB NightHawk GRP There are many other choices as well like Les Baer, but these four stand out to me, and I really like the first two I mentioned. This is an excellent list. "artsohc" nailed it here, you won't go wrong with any of these. I love my Wilson CQB, but I've shot all of the other 3 listed and they are all fine examples of classic American iron that will become cherished companions and family heirlooms for generations to come. |
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Only because Ive seen some pretty screwed up jobs if I had to buy without seeing it would be a Wilson. Now if I had my hands on them both it could go either way. I am totally unbiased when it comes to either as well. Because neither really make what Im into and the prices are a little rich for me. |
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Call Ron Phillips phillips1911.com
he was a major force for quality at both Wilson and nighthawk. Ask him to build you a pistol for $2800 based onthe features you like. Finish in ionbond diamondblack. He'll help u if u don't know evertything u want. It will be perfect. Ende der Diskussion. |
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Quoted: Call Ron Phillips phillips1911.com he was a major force for quality at both Wilson and nighthawk. Ask him to build you a pistol for $2800 based onthe features you like. Finish in ionbond diamondblack. He'll help u if u don't know evertything u want. It will be perfect. Ende der Diskussion. Does he have you on the payroll yet? |
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Yeah I really dont want to pay for a Name. I want a GUN that is nice. Im not the type guy who buys something just to say, I've got a yada yada yada look how big my balls are. I am not a rich man by any means but guns are my hobby so I figure this is my chance to buy something nice for myself. I am thinking the nighthawk may be the way to go. I just dont think I can pay some of those wilson prices. I guess I am going to just have to sit down and study what I want as opposed to what I really need. No one around here carries either gun so Im going to be buying any of these blindly. What you're really saying here is that you want to buy an Ed Brown. m ETA: Talk to George at migunslingers, he can get you a good price on an EB. |
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Quoted: Only because Ive seen some pretty screwed up jobs if I had to buy without seeing it would be a Wilson. Now if I had my hands on them both it could go either way. I am totally unbiased when it comes to either as well. Because neither really make what Im into and the prices are a little rich for me. Pretty much my thoughts. |
I just recieved a CQB Elite. It's an awesome pistol..I haven't fired a nighthawk but have handled a few....they seem awesome as well. My Wilson is awesoome in every respect...fit/finish/accuracy/reliability. The salesman over the phone was pretty willing to do whatever I wanted...if I understand correctly they will do pretty much anything...no forward cocking serrations/no rollmarks/different finishes/different grips. They are a little limited in regards to color's in their armor coat. Ahh hell...heres a few pics.
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IMHO I never buy the most expensive model of gun from a biggie like NightHawk or Wilson. Look at the model's they are best known for and are reasonably priced considering the options. I would look at: Ed Brown Special Forces Springfield Armory Professional Wilson Combat CQB NightHawk GRP There are many other choices as well like Les Baer, but these four stand out to me, and I really like the first two I mentioned. I do the same as artsohc just for the fact of I like pistol to be shot. Plus if you get a scratch on a wilson super grade it won't hurt as much. I compare it to the guy that buys a $7,000 shotgun hunting and one that gets a $500 shotgun. Who will cry harder if their shotgun gets scratched? |
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IMHO I never buy the most expensive model of gun from a biggie like NightHawk or Wilson. Look at the model's they are best known for and are reasonably priced considering the options. I would look at: Ed Brown Special Forces Springfield Armory Professional Wilson Combat CQB NightHawk GRP There are many other choices as well like Les Baer, but these four stand out to me, and I really like the first two I mentioned. I do the same as artsohc just for the fact of I like pistol to be shot. Plus if you get a scratch on a wilson super grade it won't hurt as much. I compare it to the guy that buys a $7,000 shotgun hunting and one that gets a $500 shotgun. Who will cry harder if their shotgun gets scratched?  I guess that's why my custom 1911 is to be finished in melonite 
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Only because Ive seen some pretty screwed up jobs if I had to buy without seeing it would be a Wilson. Now if I had my hands on them both it could go either way. I am totally unbiased when it comes to either as well. Because neither really make what Im into and the prices are a little rich for me. Pretty much my thoughts. Yep. |
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what game were you playing to win killer 1911 cash? may need to start gambling now I want a nighthawk or wilson I was playing a $1 slot machine. I had played 2 machines and lost about $40 and moved to a third machine and it wouldnt take my ticket. Finally on the 4th try it took it. I hit bet max credits ($3) and the first roll it hit... Double Jackpot... Double Jackpot...Double jackpot. I looked up and it said progressive. Then I looked up again and it said $10,000. With the luck I had before that on that trip I did not believe it. I had been stuck in Wichita Falls, TX for 2 days waiting on a boat trailer for a 50' Hustler I was carrying for a buddy of mine to be repaired after a wheel ran off of it and 10 min later I was pulled over by the District attorney and the DEA because they thought I was hauling drugs in the boat.... |
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I just recieved a CQB Elite. It's an awesome pistol..I haven't fired a nighthawk but have handled a few....they seem awesome as well. My Wilson is awesoome in every respect...fit/finish/accuracy/reliability. The salesman over the phone was pretty willing to do whatever I wanted...if I understand correctly they will do pretty much anything...no forward cocking serrations/no rollmarks/different finishes/different grips. They are a little limited in regards to color's in their armor coat. Ahh hell...heres a few pics.
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m302/rdmonster/DSC02359.jpg http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m302/rdmonster/DSC02351-1.jpg http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m302/rdmonster/DSC02360.jpg Thats a beautiful gun man. I love the grips on it. My other pistols are black and I kind of wanted something in stainless or semi colored finish just for something different |
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LA, drive over to Houston and go to Collector's Firearms. They have multiple Wilsons, Nighthawks (including a Vickers), Ed Browns, Les Baers and such in stock. Look around, finger them all, figure out what you want.
IM me if you want, I'm at Polk these days and I'll go with you
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LA, drive over to Houston and go to Collector's Firearms. They have multiple Wilsons, Nighthawks (including a Vickers), Ed Browns, Les Baers and such in stock. Look around, finger them all, figure out what you want. IM me if you want, I'm at Polk these days and I'll go with you I would love to but I am up in North East LA. Its 6.5 hours to houston from here. But I went there a few years back with my buddy to pick up a semi Barrett. And I think that was the name of the place we went to. |
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Wilson & Nighthawk are two sides of the same overpriced coin. Could you flesh that out a bit? Not saying you're wrong; just wondering if you know a way to produce and market a 1911 with a similar amount of man hours and similar quality parts, and sell it for less. Oh, and support it with the kind of customer service required. Please enlighten us. If you mean a Kimber or production Springfield is just as good as a Wiilson or NH, why would Wilson and NH be in business? Free markets are very efficient. Why are thousands of people voting with their money, against your premise? Why does Springfield have a semi custom Professional model, very much in line with the pricing of Wilson and NH, if their $1200 TRP is just as good? Just asking. |
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Wilson & Nighthawk are two sides of the same overpriced coin. That's just like....your opinion man. I have a SA Loaded, I love it and while a fine pistol, reliable and a good shooter it isn't in the same league as my Wilson in terms of fit/finish and features. |
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Wilson & Nighthawk are two sides of the same overpriced coin. That's just like....your opinion man. I have a SA Loaded, I love it and while a fine pistol, reliable and a good shooter it isn't in the same league as my Wilson in terms of fit/finish and features. Absolutely my opinion. You'd rather I said, "Dude....Wilson & Nighthawk are like...radically kewl.", wouldn't you? Sorry, I'm not a fan of the watchmaker's style of over hyped painted guns or clones thereof. |
| I have both. My wilson is one of the first ones and has hardly any wear or scratches. My NH looks considerably more worn with the finish almost completely gone around the ejector port after 2000 or so rounds. People tell me it was not done correctly but I don't know. It has handling scratches and the biggest idiot scratch that extends from the bottom of the trigger frame to the very top of the slide. Don't know who did that one but not that supprissed given the almost fingernail soft finish. That said, I like the NH just as much. |
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LA, drive over to Houston and go to Collector's Firearms. They have multiple Wilsons, Nighthawks (including a Vickers), Ed Browns, Les Baers and such in stock. Look around, finger them all, figure out what you want. IM me if you want, I'm at Polk these days and I'll go with you I would love to but I am up in North East LA. Its 6.5 hours to houston from here. But I went there a few years back with my buddy to pick up a semi Barrett. And I think that was the name of the place we went to. H-town is four hours for me. Still, if you want to comparison shop before you commit to spending major once in a lifetime coin, it might be a trip well made. |
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Wilson & Nighthawk are two sides of the same overpriced coin. Could you flesh that out a bit? Not saying you're wrong; just wondering if you know a way to produce and market a 1911 with a similar amount of man hours and similar quality parts, and sell it for less. Oh, and support it with the kind of customer service required. Please enlighten us. If you mean a Kimber or production Springfield is just as good as a Wiilson or NH, why would Wilson and NH be in business? Free markets are very efficient. Why are thousands of people voting with their money, against your premise? Why does Springfield have a semi custom Professional model, very much in line with the pricing of Wilson and NH, if their $1200 TRP is just as good? Just asking. I agree totally. There woudl be no reason for people to buy them when I can get a 600 dollar tauras. I work in the offroad industry and say you buy beadlock wheels. There are companies that make 200 dollar a piece ones. And companies that make 500 dollar a piece ones. Yeah the cheap ones will work. BUt may not stand up to a ton of abuse before they bend a ring or leak down..... |
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Yeah I really dont want to pay for a Name. I want a GUN that is nice. Im not the type guy who buys something just to say, I've got a yada yada yada look how big my balls are. I am not a rich man by any means but guns are my hobby so I figure this is my chance to buy something nice for myself. I am thinking the nighthawk may be the way to go. I just dont think I can pay some of those wilson prices. I guess I am going to just have to sit down and study what I want as opposed to what I really need. No one around here carries either gun so Im going to be buying any of these blindly. What you're really saying here is that you want to buy an Ed Brown. m This. I'm currently saving for an EB SF myself. 
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Wilson & Nighthawk are two sides of the same overpriced coin. Could you flesh that out a bit? Not saying you're wrong; just wondering if you know a way to produce and market a 1911 with a similar amount of man hours and similar quality parts, and sell it for less. Oh, and support it with the kind of customer service required. Please enlighten us. If you mean a Kimber or production Springfield is just as good as a Wiilson or NH, why would Wilson and NH be in business? Free markets are very efficient. Why are thousands of people voting with their money, against your premise? Why does Springfield have a semi custom Professional model, very much in line with the pricing of Wilson and NH, if their $1200 TRP is just as good? Just asking. 
smackdown I have had both, you can't go wrong with either. My current carry piece is a NHC talon II bobtail. Love it. |
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Collector's has two Vickers-model Nighthawks in stock. I think I'd go that route if I had the coin. Nice to own but would you really go out and shoot it? LV pulled his support for these when the price per unit hit the ceiling. As I remember, he said he just couldn't justify putting his name on something that he felt cost too much. As a result, these are extremely collectable due to the extremely limited numbers. IMO for the serious shooter these are not realistic choices for a carry gun, for the coin there are much better options in the Wilson and NH catalog. |
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IMHO I never buy the most expensive model of gun from a biggie like NightHawk or Wilson. Look at the model's they are best known for and are reasonably priced considering the options. I would look at: Ed Brown Special Forces Springfield Armory Professional Wilson Combat CQB NightHawk GRP There are many other choices as well like Les Baer, but these four stand out to me, and I really like the first two I mentioned. Great list of great 1911s. LA- I was like you and started out thinking that Kimber's were the "end-all", or at least that was my thought. I bought a Stainless Custom II, not their top model but it never failed me and I really did like it. I still refer to it as my "gateway 1911"...meaning all it did was open my eyes to what else is out there. I did a little research and really liked the Wilson CQB- again like you, I didn't need the top of the line model. One visit to the gun shop and a couple minutes of handling it and it was mine and the Kimber was up for sale. I had also looked into all the other pistols listed above and my next big purchase will be the Ed Brown Special Forces Carry in stainless. I have heard great things about NightHawk and I think aesthetically they put out some great looking guns, and who knows- if I hit it big one day... There is not a 1911 mentioned by artsoohc that I would not buy blindly, but my vote is for an entry level CQB and don't look back...just look forward to your next one. |
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I've got 2 nighthawks with 4 trips back to the factory between them. Buy a Wilson.
And if you get a commander sized Nighthawk, I hope you like finish wear all around your ejection port. They'll tell you that's normal for compact 1911s and your only option is to pay $350 for the Diamond Black finish. Springfield mass-imports $600 4" pistols from brazil that don't have this problem. Spend $2500 on a Nighthawk 4.25" pistol and they'll tell you to just deal with it, it's normal. I'll say this though, diamond black really is a hell of a finish. If you're going to get a nighthawk, go for the clean slide option with diamond black. |
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You could buy a100 year old, beat up, drug down the drive-way , turd of a used Wilson, and they would pay shipping to and from Berryville, and make that pistol good as new at no charge. This. And Nighthawk quality sucks. I think their machinists must be a bunch of drunk, gay, monkeys. It's so bad it's pathetic. Ive owned about every custom 1911 made at some point. The Top 3 are: Wilson Les Baer Ed Brown I've seen Springfield GI models fit up better than most Nighthawks I've seen. |
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Quoted: Quoted: You could buy a100 year old, beat up, drug down the drive-way , turd of a used Wilson, and they would pay shipping to and from Berryville, and make that pistol good as new at no charge. This. And Nighthawk quality sucks. I think their machinists must be a bunch of drunk, gay, monkeys. It's so bad it's pathetic. Let's take it easy on the embellishments, this isn't GD. |
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You could buy a100 year old, beat up, drug down the drive-way , turd of a used Wilson, and they would pay shipping to and from Berryville, and make that pistol good as new at no charge. This. And Nighthawk quality sucks. I think their machinists must be a bunch of drunk, gay, monkeys. It's so bad it's pathetic. Let's take it easy on the embellishments, this isn't GD. Sorry, but I've owned a Nighthawk. Ordered it without putting my hands on it first. That was my mistake. I tend to vent about it. The quality was unbelievably bad. Every one that I have seen at the fun store since then have been the same. I apoligize if my experience with Nighthawk hurts anyones feelings. |
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You probably couldnt go wrong with either one. I dont own either but both have built a hell of a reputation for quality.
But let me be the sane one of the bunch and suggest you buy a Colt (yeah I drink the kool aid by the gallons) The special combat government - carry model is as fine a 1911 you can buy (its a custom shop pistol at Colt). Its terrific. Then when you look at at the prancing pony you know you have a 1911. Further, 50 years from now when you or your progeny sale it, you will get more money for it than a boutique 1911 shop that will probably be owned by the Freedom Group at that point in time. AND with the money you will save from buying the Colt you can buy a lot of ammo. |
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I currently own a Wilson Protector,Ed Brown Special Forces and Les Baer TRS & Concept II,also a Colt Special Combat,all in ,45acp.
If you want a high end pistol,i recommend the Wilson Combat first,works great,Feels great and is backed up by the Best Warranty Period !! Great Company to deal with. The Wilson,Ed Brown and Colt pistols worked great right out of the box,the Les Baers needed some break in time.....like 500 rounds thru before loosening up a bit,the tightest 1911's in the market.The Colt special combat has the loosest frame to slide fit,rattles like a baby's toy rattle!!! But dont knock it,The Colt special combat and the super tight Les Baers are my most accurate guns,have shot 1.5 inch groups at 40 yards over and over and over with these.The Wilson and Ed browns i shoot about 1.75-2" groups....... Any of these guns will work fine,just that the Les Baers will need a little break in time while the others wont. As for the Nighthawks,have looked at quite a few of them,and have seen some butchering work.From the looks they are not consistent in building a high end 1911 yet,for the money i'll go with Wilson,Brown,Baer..and Colt.......but if you really want a gun like no other,buy a Colt series 70 repro and send it to Ted Yost at Heirloom Precision and you will truly have a one off Extreme high end custom for a little over what you plan on spending now. Check out there website...... |
| +1 on Coltnuts suggestion on sending a Colt S70 to Heirloom precision. The work they perform will create a pistol that really is unique well beyond Wilson or Nighthawk. Like he said go look at their website. Just remember it will be a gorgeous piece of art not something I would carry everyday like the wilson. |
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Check out their Picture galley,here's the website link....
http://www.heirloomprecision.com/ Dream Guns!! Enjoy! |