Posted: 1/27/2005 2:31:12 PM EDT
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I am on my way to the range to try it out. Does anyone have any experience with this ammunition? I'm using .40 S&W. I'll post a range report when I get back. 96Ag ETA: I went to the range and put a box of 50 through my XD Tactical. Not exactly an endurance test but I had no problems. The ammunition seems a bit dirtier than the Federal I have shot previously, but is as accurate as I could shoot. YMMV |
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I haven't seen any of that yet, but I shoot the WWB all the time on the range to practice because it's so cheap. I've only come accross on out of spec round in about 4000 9mm fired and it just required a good slap to the back of my XD to get it chambered. I'll have to check out their personal protection ammo. |
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We just went to the .40S&W cal. Glock 22 for our issue weapon. I shot 100 rounds of the Winchester white box and about 25 rounds of our issue Federal ammo before carrying it on duty. Both shot well with no problems. I even got 6 extra boxes for future practice. Colt_SBR |
Uh huh. No way in hell I'm using white box for defense. The tests I've read don't even have white box in them. There's a reason for that. 
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Just to be clear, this ain't the dirt-cheap FMJ he's talking about. It's a JHP design. I have seen good tests for the .45 caliber ammo, though I can't recall where. I also don't recall seeing the results for any other calibers of this ammo, I was researching .45 specifically at the time. |
We were clear on that. |
Yep. |
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I chrono'd some cheap white box .357 mag rounds once, the hollowpoint ones. I was supremely disappointed. Whereas a full powered .357 round would go around 531FtLbs the white box crap only made it to 258FtLbs. I haven't even considered buying another box of it since. |
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If you shoot a guy in the head, it won't matter what kind of ammo you are using they are all going to kill him just the same.,, BTW I own a TLE/RL II and I have put close to 1,000 rounds of only WWB through it - not a single problem yet. Gun gets a bit dirty but oh well. |
not all head shots kill. |
False. poorly performing rounds (either underpowered or poor design) often fail to penetrate the skull. they may penetrate the skin, and travel around the head doing no significant damage. Just this past month a man was shot in the face at less than 30 feet, probably less than ten feet. the round managed to knock out one tooth and that was it. the winchester white box personal defense round is a pathetic performer for self defense. If it is used for practice i see nothing wrong with it, but make sure you don't trust your life on it. winchester ranger (current production) on the other hand, usually ranks in the top three performers for any pistol ammo type. |
I will never buy it again. Put a dozen rounds through my pistol, worked ok, loaded a few mags, and let it sit for home defense. Eventually I decide to try out the rounds at the range- bring the pistol up and *click*- first round had a primer failure. Conversly, I've never had a problem with standard WWB. |
| ""the winchester white box personal defense round is a pathetic performer for self defense"" Says who? I want proof, not baseless claims. If the damned thing doesen't expand it's still a .451 hole right? I'm not trying to be a wise ass, just want to learn more. |
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Thanks for the replies gentlemen. I bought this stuff mainly to practice with hollowpoints. I had never used my pistol for carry and so I had never fired any hollow points through the gun. I got several types to try and since I had never heard good or ill about the USA line for Personal Protection I thought I could get some help here. Since I got my CHL I use Federal personal protection ammunition, I think the bullets are Hydra Shoks. But since the WWB is cheap I thought it could serve as a stock up ammo for emergencies. Thanks for your help. 96Ag |
Yeah. Just like ball ammo.  Your money, your life, carry what you want. |
| i shot some of this stuff some time ago, but only used it at the range. are there tests showing it to be a poor performer, or do people just think that because it is not expensive and comes in a plain white box? i htought there was some talk on pistolsmith.com that this stuff was okay carry ammo. |
| I would also like to see some tests supporting the view that it is a poor performer. There were several tests on the now defunct ammolab.com and also some informal tests on other forums indicating that it performs just as well as more expensive ammo. I have no problem carrying it in all of my weapons as it feeds reliably and is accurate. I just don't want to feel duped by paying over twice as much for the other premium brands. I can easily spend the extra money practicing with my carry round. Still, some feel the need to carry only the ultra expensive stuff b/c if it costs that much, it must be good, right? I used to be of that mindset, but hey, to each his own. |
That has to be like a one in a million occurance. I doubt ANY guy is lucky enough to have it happen once, let alone 2 or 3 times in a row at the same time. |
Much more common than you'd think, and there is NO reason for your first shot to go in someone's head anyway. |
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Guys, come on. How much is your life worth to you? Is it worth the extra few bucks to get QUALITY ammo that is known to perform well? Or would you rather go cheap and get some ammo that nobody has ever tested (or if they did, it sucked too bad to even publish)? Sure, the WWB is a HP design. That does NOT mean that it'll expand to a good diameter or even expand at all. Of course somebody will argue that shot placement is really all that's needed. But do you really think that you can reliably hit the heart, a major blood carrying artery/vein, or the CNS under stress to put your attacker down? Get a case of good quality JHP ammo. Train with it. Make sure your weapon works well with it. The extra money you spend may be the difference between your funeral and theirs. Check the ammo forum for a tacked topic on the top performing loads in each caliber. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=162042 |
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Folks, we've been through this thing a million times. When you're choosing ammo for personal protection, you don't cut corners. Now me, I could use Wolf or whatever cheap ammo there is (so long as it's safe) for practice because practice isn't a life or death situation in which the quality of my ammo determines if I live or die. But to repeat, here's the performance qualities you should look for when choosing defensive ammo (per FBI criteria): 1. Does the load of choice penetrate a minimum of 12" in calibrated ballistic gel/flesh? 2. Does it offer robust and reliable expansion, including when it must pass through layers of clothing? Now, with that said, is the brand reliable? Are they accurate? Does it function well in your gun? If I can answer yes to all those questions, I would consider the ammo acceptable for defensive use. Another quality some might like is low flash powders. Some loads have it, some don't. Generally the top two loads in 9mm, .40 and .45 all come from Winchester's Ranger and Speer's Gold Dot designs. If you have a .45 and use the 230 gr loading from either manufacturer, you will have a proven load that's been tested in the lab and on the street numerous times. Now if you want cheap ammo for practice, that's fine. Stock up on it. But for life and death situations, I'm sure anyone could afford to buy a few boxes of top notch ammo. That way there is no guess work involved. The work is testing it has already been done. There's no "will this stuff work" type questions. So in short, you want good ammo that you know will perform? Get you some Ranger or Gold Dot in 230 gr flavor and be done with it. Saving a few $$$ per box is no bargain when choosing ammo for the serious purpose of self-defense. And for those who say a head shot will always kill, get real! Do you realize how difficult it is to make a headshot with a handgun in a shootout, with all the movement and stress that goes along with such an event? Folks, people don't just stand there presenting you a stationary target in which to aim at. They are going to be moving, trying to shoot your ass too. Aim to center mass and double-tap. And use proven ammo when you do it. -CH |
You are a wise ass. 
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Of course the lower cost one (just buy twice as much) but I think that the question here is does it actually perform as well as the premium brand defensive ammo?? I have not yet seen in this thread anyone posting any actual test results of any kind, good or bad. |
Oh i'd use the good stuff, but when I put 3 rounds in a guys head one of them is bound to do the job. |
If your safety doesn't matter to you, it doesn't matter to me. Might as well use a .32. One of the 3 rounds should kill. 
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Remember when you were 16 and ready to get your first car and for months you bugged the daylights out of anyone and everyone who would listen about your new car you were gonna get? A few weeks ago, you did the exact same thing with your upcoming handgun purchase. I don't care who you are, you're foolish to think you're going to shoot someone in the head 3 times in an armed confrontation, untill you have YEARS of hard trigger time. I'm 29 years old. I fire thousands of rounds per year through handguns. I have done things (in plinking settings) with handguns that many people can't do with a rifle. But I don't even DREAM about triple-tapping someone in the head in a defensive situation. Not even if they're 5 feet away. It costs too much to miss. Read a book, get some training, do something....but leave your john wayne/ daniel boone attitude at home if you're gonna carry a gun. |
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