[ARCHIVED THREAD] - .357 SIG? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/12/2010 3:55:06 PM EDT
 is the popularity of the .357 SIG increasing or in decline? what do you think of the rounds performance? what polce agencies use the round?
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I think the "popularity" is due to the fact that all ammo is hard to get... someone sees .357 SIG, it turns into, "I'll get a conversion barrel to be able to shoot the only ammo I can find!"
I've been tossing around what gun I will be getting in the near future, and actually just settled on the Glock 35. When I first thought about it, I considered a .357 SIG barrel. $160 more, not to mention the higher cost of .357 SIG ammo. I'll put that money towards night sights and a holster. Personally, I think 10mm had a stronger following. |
| The .357 Sig is not DOA like the .45 Gap round was. Five or six state police departments are using the .357 Sig, as well as several federal agencies. Most things I've read on the selection of .357 Sig are based on the penetration of the round through vehicles and other barriers. It will probably never be as popular as .40 S&W but it's far from dead. |
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The local ranges have quite a few Feds shooting 357Sig and many civilians seem to be shooting it as well. I see a lot of brass, probably not as much as the .40 tho. I prefer 357Sig to my .40, but I still like both. For me, the SIG round has been more accurate and performance is fine.
I think the caliber is far from dead, I do not plan to put mine away. There is nothing wrong with either caliber. 
The folks I allow to shoot mine seem to like it and a few have bought their own. Sometimes, I'll carry a 45, or a 40. I'll even carry a 9mm or 380 if I feel like it. The round will be around for a while longer, I believe... |
Texas Department of Public Safety (State Troopers) uses it. I use it in my G32 and G27 Glocks. I love the cartridge good capacity, good speed, good penetration, and a crack that will make any bad guy piss his pants  . I doubt the .357Sig round will die because almost all the major mfg make a Sig pistol.
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Quoted:
The .357 Sig is not DOA like the .45 Gap round was. Five or six state police departments are using the .357 Sig, as well as several federal agencies. Most things I've read on the selection of .357 Sig are based on the penetration of the round through vehicles and other barriers. It will probably never be as popular as .40 S&W but it's far from dead. Quoted:
No, I don't think it's dead. I don't think it'll ever have the surge in popularity that .40 did back in the day, and still does. It'll always be around I think. It's a good round, and has alot to offer. I agree it is nowhere near as "dead" as the GAP. It is a specialty cartridge that appeals to certain people. The fact that it shares mags and case head/boltface with the 40 is a huge advantage. Unlike the gap you can have a gun that shoots both rounds fairly easy and cheaply. I dont see it gaining a whole lot of momentum but it hasnt gone away yet either |
| I know a guy that is a Lt. for a local police department and they used to issue Glock 31C's. They switched to another platform and caliber because they were cracking too many frames. The marginal increase in performance isn't worth the increased blast, flash, recoil, and wear to me. |
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My department issues either a 21C or 31C depending on the officer's choice. Lots of people picked the 31C then moved to the 21C later. That said, most people did it mainly because they said they really liked the 21 but tried the 31 because of the hype and later didn't like the frame size.
I carry a 33 off duty and really like it. |
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i carry a G33 daily. it's a lot of gun in a small package. lots of noise, good amount of recoil. but not too much that i can't get shots where i need them fast. my brother carries a G32 mostly. it's a much easier shooting gun than the 33. still loud but the recoil is more manageable.
the only reason i bought it is because i got an awesome deal on it and wanted a sub compact glock at the time. the ammo prices are ridiculous though. $24/50 at wal*mart for FMJ is absurd. i do have a local shop that sell 125 gr. SXT Ranger for $28/50 then if my other dealer would ever get .357 back in stock i could get Fed American Eagle for $14/50 but they have been out for over a year and have no clue when it will be back in. i may pick up a .40 barrel for it in the meantime so i can at least afford to shoot more than a couple mags worth out of it. $12/50 of .40 is much better than $24/50 for the sig the PA game commission officers carry the G31 and i think the Federal Air Marshalls carry it as well but in a Sig Sauer pistol. not sure of the model. |
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I don't see the point in it, but that's just me. A .357 Magnum, it ain't. Comparing it to the .45GAP and saying it's doing better is a but lopsided, I think. If my memory serves correctly, they have both been adopted by about equal numbers of very large law enforcement agencies. |
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I will always be a fan of the .357sig cartridge. Part of me doesn't want it to catch on like the .40SW . When ammo is scarce (when i couldnt find 9mm ammo) I can always find the .357sig round. IMO the round outperforms many other cartridges and is one of my favorite rounds to shoot.
Federal Air Marshals also use it... now using a p250. |
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is the popularity of the .357 SIG increasing or in decline? Increasing, There is a much larger selection of ammo for the 357 Sig than their was just five years ago.
what do you think of the rounds performance? Flat shooting, accurate, reliable feeding thanks to bottle neck design, Never had a jam with any 357 Sig pistol (Sig, Glock, M&P) using factory loaded ammo.
The 357 Sig is used by United States Secret Service, US Federal Air Marshal Service, Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, Texas Highway Patrol, Virginia State Police, New Mexico State Police, North Carolina State Highway Patrol, Tennessee Highway Patrol, Delaware State Police, Rhode Island State Police, Madison Police Department in Madison WV, Bastrop County Texas Sheriff's Office, Alameda County Sheriff's Office, CTA Chicago Transit Authority, Pennsylvania Game Commission, Canadian Forces Special Operations unit Joint Task Force 2. |
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.357 Sig was designed to duplicate the 125gr loading of the .357 Magnum cartridge. Both loads run around 1450fps +\-40fps, so that's close enough for me. .45 GAP is dieing a slow death with maybe five major agencies adopting it, and no one else rushing to pick it up.
Quoted:
I don't see the point in it, but that's just me. A .357 Magnum, it ain't. Comparing it to the .45GAP and saying it's doing better is a but lopsided, I think. If my memory serves correctly, they have both been adopted by about equal numbers of very large law enforcement agencies. |
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Quoted: .357 Sig was designed to duplicate the 125gr loading of the .357 Magnum cartridge. Both loads run around 1450fps +\-40fps, so that's close enough for me. .45 GAP is dieing a slow death with maybe five major agencies adopting it, and no one else rushing to pick it up. The .45 GAP is being picked up be several large agencies, including the Florida Highway Patrol. I don't know why it has the allure it does, but it does, apparently. The .357 Sig was indeed designed to duplicate the .357 Magnum, which it fails at. It's closer to a hot 9mm that it is the .357 Magnum 125 grain loading. I've yet to see a single load of the Sig get near 1400 fps. Out of real guns (not manufacturers numbers) I doubt any break 1350. The Remington .357 Magnum load breaks 1550 out of my 5 inch S&W M27, and did 1600+ from my 6 inch 586. It hits well over 1500 from a 4 inch 681. The .357 Sig was made on hype, not actual duplication of the load. I still maintain it's nothing but a hot-loaded 9mm. |
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.357 Sig was designed to duplicate the 125gr loading of the .357 Magnum cartridge. Both loads run around 1450fps +\-40fps, so that's close enough for me. .45 GAP is dieing a slow death with maybe five major agencies adopting it, and no one else rushing to pick it up. The .45 GAP is being picked up be several large agencies, including the Florida Highway Patrol. I don't know why it has the allure it does, but it does, apparently. The .357 Sig was indeed designed to duplicate the .357 Magnum, which it fails at. It's closer to a hot 9mm that it is the .357 Magnum 125 grain loading. I've yet to see a single load of the Sig get near 1400 fps. Out of real guns (not manufacturers numbers) I doubt any break 1350. The Remington .357 Magnum load breaks 1550 out of my 5 inch S&W M27, and did 1600+ from my 6 inch 586. It hits well over 1500 from a 4 inch 681. The .357 Sig was made on hype, not actual duplication of the load. I still maintain it's nothing but a hot-loaded 9mm. I'm pretty sure double tap makes a load that is around 1400fps from a sig 4ich barrel. However, i have not had a chance to personally test this. ETA: see here. |
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There is plenty of non factory information out there, but it sounds like you just don't want to hear about it. The agencies that have adopted the .357 Sig appear to be quite happy with the round, so there must be some substance to all the 'hype'.
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The .357 Sig was indeed designed to duplicate the .357 Magnum, which it fails at. It's closer to a hot 9mm that it is the .357 Magnum 125 grain loading. I've yet to see a single load of the Sig get near 1400 fps. Out of real guns (not manufacturers numbers) I doubt any break 1350. The Remington .357 Magnum load breaks 1550 out of my 5 inch S&W M27, and did 1600+ from my 6 inch 586. It hits well over 1500 from a 4 inch 681. The .357 Sig was made on hype, not actual duplication of the load. I still maintain it's nothing but a hot-loaded 9mm. |
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Quoted: There is plenty of non factory information out there, but it sounds like you just don't want to hear about it. The agencies that have adopted the .357 Sig appear to be quite happy with the round, so there must be some substance to all the 'hype'. Quoted: The .357 Sig was indeed designed to duplicate the .357 Magnum, which it fails at. It's closer to a hot 9mm that it is the .357 Magnum 125 grain loading. I've yet to see a single load of the Sig get near 1400 fps. Out of real guns (not manufacturers numbers) I doubt any break 1350. The Remington .357 Magnum load breaks 1550 out of my 5 inch S&W M27, and did 1600+ from my 6 inch 586. It hits well over 1500 from a 4 inch 681. The .357 Sig was made on hype, not actual duplication of the load. I still maintain it's nothing but a hot-loaded 9mm. And the agencies that have adopted the .45 GAP have been very happy with it as well, including Pennsylvania SP and NYSP (7 shootings last I heard, with impressive results). There are still agencies issuing the 9mm +P and +P+ loadings, and are very happy with them, and have results to back them up. If you insist on bringing into the argument "non-factory" loadings such as Double Tap Ammo, the .357 Magnum can push a bonded 125 grain JHP up to a claimed 1700 fps from a 6 inch S&W, up into territory where there may be a real potential for what some call hydrostatic shock damage. In factory loadings such as Winchester Ranger, the 9m +P+ comes to within 100 fps of the Sig. Round for round, there seems to be very little difference in terminal effect. I stand by my original statement that the only real-world difference is a loss of magazine capacity. Sorry that your sacred cow seems to have gotten gored. 
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Only thing dead about .357 SIG is the person shot with it.
FerFAL endorses it and he is from flipping Argentina. Readily available in Argentina? That should tell you something. If you're unaware Argentina has serious economic/social and criminal problems. USSS has the money and political support to do as much testing as the money the Treasury can print can buy and they went with it. .357 SIG is here to stay. |
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I didn't quote non factory loadings, someone else did. You threw in 5" and 6" barrels which don't really exist on a .357 Sig semi auto unless you go custom. My P229 is just under 4", and the Glock is 4.5" AFAIK. The fact that you brought the potential for hydrostatic shock damage into the arguement makes me wonder just how old your information is. Fackler and just about everyone else has slain that sacred cow, so who's tilting at windmills now?
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If you insist on bringing into the argument "non-factory" loadings such as Double Tap Ammo, the .357 Magnum can push a bonded 125 grain JHP up to a claimed 1700 fps from a 6 inch S&W, up into territory where there may be a real potential for what some call hydrostatic shock damage. In factory loadings such as Winchester Ranger, the 9m +P+ comes to within 100 fps of the Sig. Round for round, there seems to be very little difference in terminal effect. I stand by my original statement that the only real-world difference is a loss of magazine capacity. Sorry that your sacred cow seems to have gotten gored. |
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.357 Sig was designed to duplicate the 125gr loading of the .357 Magnum cartridge. Both loads run around 1450fps +\-40fps, so that's close enough for me. .45 GAP is dieing a slow death with maybe five major agencies adopting it, and no one else rushing to pick it up. The .45 GAP is being picked up be several large agencies, including the Florida Highway Patrol. I don't know why it has the allure it does, but it does, apparently. The .357 Sig was indeed designed to duplicate the .357 Magnum, which it fails at. It's closer to a hot 9mm that it is the .357 Magnum 125 grain loading. I've yet to see a single load of the Sig get near 1400 fps. Out of real guns (not manufacturers numbers) I doubt any break 1350. The Remington .357 Magnum load breaks 1550 out of my 5 inch S&W M27, and did 1600+ from my 6 inch 586. It hits well over 1500 from a 4 inch 681. The .357 Sig was made on hype, not actual duplication of the load. I still maintain it's nothing but a hot-loaded 9mm. Then you haven't been looking very hard, have you? Following are some chronograph numbers I went and dug up for you. The 357 SIG duplicates and or surpasses the 357 Magnum's velocity with factory ammunition in the 125gr range from a 4-4.5" barrel. It does EXACTLY what it was designed to to. You will note that I compared the Gold Dot load for the 357 Magnum and 357 SIG below. I included buffalo-bore as well, but like you mentioned later, you can throw that out if you want. The Gold Dot loading proves my point. Feel free to disagree, but include sources and make a good case for yourself. Of course it's just a hot-loaded 9mm. That's all any .357/.355 is, lol. The round is gaining in popularity, to answer the OP. I personally love it. Does great through all barriers and I really like the blasty-yet no recoil-characteristics it has out of my P226 Elite ST. Data: http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9058&SearchTerms=357 Your .357 Magnum: GP100 4" Corbon 110s hi 1443 lo 1371 av 1404 Remington 125 JHPs hi 1460 lo 1427 av 1444 Winchester 110 USA JHP hi 1188 lo 1122 av 1142 http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3995&SearchTerms=357 (Post 9 in this thread) Speer 125 Gold Dot from 4" 66 avg 1352 Now the 357 SIG: http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17836&SearchTerms=357 Buffalo Bore 125gr. with Gold dot bullet Advertised at 1425' from a 4", product code 25A-125gr Hi - 1496 Lo - 1486 Ave- 1492 = ME 631 ft/lbs ES - 10 SD - 4 Very accurate, Low Flash, Controlable recoil Speer LE Gold Dots 125gr. Advertised at 1375' out of a 4", product code 54234 Hi - 1388 Lo - 1380 Ave- 1384 = ME 531 ft/lbs Es - 8 Sd - 4 Also very accurate, Low Flash and soft shooting Both loads very consistant, wow! Pistol ran 100% Results below are for Winchester 357sig 125gr. # RA357SIGT Factory rated @ 1350 from 4" test Brl From a Glock 31. 52* sunny, lt.wind Hi - 1396 Lo - 1371 Ave- 1383 = 530ft/lbs Es - 25 Sd - 12 Good groups, no flash, no drama Regards, Steve |
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.357 Sig was designed to duplicate the 125gr loading of the .357 Magnum cartridge. Both loads run around 1450fps +\-40fps, so that's close enough for me. .45 GAP is dieing a slow death with maybe five major agencies adopting it, and no one else rushing to pick it up. The .45 GAP is being picked up be several large agencies, including the Florida Highway Patrol. I don't know why it has the allure it does, but it does, apparently. The .357 Sig was indeed designed to duplicate the .357 Magnum, which it fails at. It's closer to a hot 9mm that it is the .357 Magnum 125 grain loading. I've yet to see a single load of the Sig get near 1400 fps. Out of real guns (not manufacturers numbers) I doubt any break 1350. The Remington .357 Magnum load breaks 1550 out of my 5 inch S&W M27, and did 1600+ from my 6 inch 586. It hits well over 1500 from a 4 inch 681. The .357 Sig was made on hype, not actual duplication of the load. I still maintain it's nothing but a hot-loaded 9mm. I get 1450fps out of a 4 inch barrel with a 125gr GDHP, AA#9, and Hornady cases. So, there you go. :) |
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Quoted: I didn't quote non factory loadings, someone else did. You threw in 5" and 6" barrels which don't really exist on a .357 Sig semi auto unless you go custom. My P229 is just under 4", and the Glock is 4.5" AFAIK. The fact that you brought the potential for hydrostatic shock damage into the arguement makes me wonder just how old your information is. Fackler and just about everyone else has slain that sacred cow, so who's tilting at windmills now? If you observe any of my postings in this particular section of Arfcom, you'll see I'm one of those often questioning people who bring up muzzle energy as potential product of handgun ammo. I certainly don't worship at the silly altar of Marshall and Sanow. However, when the .357 Magnum is approaching low-level rifle velocities, then there is potential for other damage. See our own Ammo FAQ: One important difference for rifle ammunition is that the velocities are much higher, and the effect of the temporary cavity starts contributing quite a bit towards creating damage, especially as one moves up in caliber/velocity. It is still questionable if 1700 fps is enough to produce this effect, but it seems to be possible. Obviously, you have something seriously invested in the .357 Sig cartridge. That's fine, I never said it wouldn't work, but I simply don't see how it's any more effective than a premium 9mm round. For what it's worth, the professionals who study this stuff for a living don't see any difference in capability, either. |
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I didn't quote non factory loadings, someone else did. You threw in 5" and 6" barrels which don't really exist on a .357 Sig semi auto unless you go custom. My P229 is just under 4", and the Glock is 4.5" AFAIK. The fact that you brought the potential for hydrostatic shock damage into the arguement makes me wonder just how old your information is. Fackler and just about everyone else has slain that sacred cow, so who's tilting at windmills now?
If you observe any of my postings in this particular section of Arfcom, you'll see I'm one of those often questioning people who bring up muzzle energy as potential product of handgun ammo. I certainly don't worship at the silly altar of Marshall and Sanow. However, when the .357 Magnum is approaching low-level rifle velocities, then there is potential for other damage. See our own Ammo FAQ: One important difference for rifle ammunition is that the velocities are much higher, and the effect of the temporary cavity starts contributing quite a bit towards creating damage, especially as one moves up in caliber/velocity. It is still questionable if 1700 fps is enough to produce this effect, but it seems to be possible. Obviously, you have something seriously invested in the .357 Sig cartridge. That's fine, I never said it wouldn't work, but I simply don't see how it's any more effective than a premium 9mm round. For what it's worth, the professionals who study this stuff for a living don't see any difference in capability, either. The experts say the 9mm is equal to the .357 Magnum as well. Either way, the 357 SIG has equalled the ballistics of the 357 Magnum from a 4" barrel. That is what it was designed to do. If you consider bowing out after being proven wrong the honorable thing, fair enough. |
| I carry a G33 as a BUG at work and in the summer it rides on my waist,I like the round and ammo is plentiful in these parts. I will say that any caliber with the right ammo is effective on soft targets. Where the Sig round shines over the 9mm is it's ability to go through barriers and this is why I feel it is a better round for L.E. work. That extra 100-150 FPS will give it that lil bit more push to go through that windshiled to reach a bad guy. |
| I've got one in a Springfield XD. Have factory ammunition and reload it too. Here's the difference between 357sig, 10mm, and 45gap. 357sig is the only one I see for sale at Wal-Mart. As long as Wal-Mart carries it you won't have to worry about it dieing like the other two might. |
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I know a guy that is a Lt. for a local police department and they used to issue Glock 31C's. They switched to another platform and caliber because they were cracking too many frames. The marginal increase in performance isn't worth the increased blast, flash, recoil, and wear to me. In fairness, that's probably not the .357 sig's fault. It's the Glock's fault. Glock's .357 sig guns suck balls. They won't warranty the guns past 20,000 rounds. That's what happens when you take a 9mm gun and just drill the chamber larger to take the new round. 
Guns like the P229 handle the .357 sig pretty well from everything I've seen as far as durability goes. The extra muzzle blast and recoil are still there. |
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The .45 GAP is being picked up be several large agencies, including the Florida Highway Patrol. I don't know why it has the allure it does, but it does, apparently. Glock basically giving the guns away along with holsters and ammo probably explains much of the "allure". |
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.357 sig is a good round that never really caught on with mainstream. it has a lot of muzzle flash, loud report, and a lit of recoil and all it really is us a 9mm on steroids. it was origionally designed to replicate the .357mag in semi auto form but fell short. standard loading of around 124-125g rounds are moving at around 1225-1250fps where as a 9mm 124-125g is moving at around 1000fps so all in all you are only gaining aroind 225-250FPS over the 9mm.
on the upside the round is very reliable due to neck, it feeds and extracts well but its more of a niche round. I like it nad am getting a conversion barrel for my G22 but its more for plinking every now and again, not for carry. |
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Standard loading of around 124-125g rounds are moving at around 1225-1250fps where as a 9mm 124-125g is moving at around 1000fps so all in all you are only gaining aroind 225-250FPS over the 9mm. I guess you missed all this: Now the 357 SIG: http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17836&SearchTerms=357 Buffalo Bore 125gr. with Gold dot bullet Advertised at 1425' from a 4", product code 25A-125gr Hi - 1496 Lo - 1486 Ave- 1492 = ME 631 ft/lbs ES - 10 SD - 4 Very accurate, Low Flash, Controlable recoil Speer LE Gold Dots 125gr. Advertised at 1375' out of a 4", product code 54234 Hi - 1388 Lo - 1380 Ave- 1384 = ME 531 ft/lbs Es - 8 Sd - 4 Also very accurate, Low Flash and soft shooting Both loads very consistant, wow! Pistol ran 100% Results below are for Winchester 357sig 125gr. # RA357SIGT Factory rated @ 1350 from 4" test Brl From a Glock 31. 52* sunny, lt.wind Hi - 1396 Lo - 1371 Ave- 1383 = 530ft/lbs Es - 25 Sd - 12 Good groups, no flash, no drama Regards, Steve |
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.357 sig is a good round that never really caught on with mainstream. it has a lot of muzzle flash, loud report, and a lit of recoil and all it really is us a 9mm on steroids. it was origionally designed to replicate the .357mag in semi auto form but fell short. standard loading of around 124-125g rounds are moving at around 1225-1250fps where as a 9mm 124-125g is moving at around 1000fps so all in all you are only gaining aroind 225-250FPS over the 9mm. on the upside the round is very reliable due to neck, it feeds and extracts well but its more of a niche round. I like it nad am getting a conversion barrel for my G22 but its more for plinking every now and again, not for carry. Please explain how 1375-1425fps from a 3.9-4.4" barrel with 125gr bullets "fell short" of the .357 Magnum from the same barrel length? Yeah, the .357 MAG may hit 1430-1460 with some loads, but the 357SIG offerings hold twice as many rounds, and 20-30fps difference is immaterial. So...how did it fall short? |
| My experience with the 357sig isn't what I call a good review. Recoil on a round loaded to 1375 fps or more is brutal and unforgiving using a Springfield XD 4 inch barrrel. I worry about stopping power because I think shoot through is more likely. Especially on a thin framed adversary. Simply put the 357sig was the answer if you wanted a 357 magnum in a semi. It's not a good carry choice in my opnion. |
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My experience with the 357sig isn't what I call a good review. Recoil on a round loaded to 1375 fps or more is brutal and unforgiving using a Springfield XD 4 inch barrrel. I worry about stopping power because I think shoot through is more likely. Especially on a thin framed adversary. Simply put the 357sig was the answer if you wanted a 357 magnum in a semi. It's not a good carry choice in my opnion. The 357SIG is no-more likely to shoot-through than any other caliber on a person. Also, I would worry more about missing the person completely. Much more common. |
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My experience with the 357sig isn't what I call a good review. Recoil on a round loaded to 1375 fps or more is brutal and unforgiving using a Springfield XD 4 inch barrrel. I worry about stopping power because I think shoot through is more likely. Especially on a thin framed adversary. Simply put the 357sig was the answer if you wanted a 357 magnum in a semi. It's not a good carry choice in my opnion. The 357SIG is no-more likely to shoot-through than any other caliber on a person. Also, I would worry more about missing the person completely. Much more common. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ REALLY, you sure about that huh ? You quoting ballistics and everything ? Better look down, I think you stepped in it. 
And missing is an issue when either packing a .22 or shooting a cannon.
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My experience with the 357sig isn't what I call a good review. Recoil on a round loaded to 1375 fps or more is brutal and unforgiving using a Springfield XD 4 inch barrrel. I worry about stopping power because I think shoot through is more likely. Especially on a thin framed adversary. Simply put the 357sig was the answer if you wanted a 357 magnum in a semi. It's not a good carry choice in my opnion. The 357SIG is no-more likely to shoot-through than any other caliber on a person. Also, I would worry more about missing the person completely. Much more common. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ REALLY, you sure about that huh ? You quoting ballistics and everything ? Better look down, I think you stepped in it.
And missing is an issue when either packing a .22 or shooting a cannon.
Stepped in it, eh? No. My statements are factual. Why don't you take a look at some of the testing done with the round before you spout conjecture. Here, let me link you to some: http://le.atk.com/pdf/Butte_WBW_5_27_09.pdf Correct, missing is always an issue, which is further why "shoot through" matters so little to me with regards to a well-designed JHP. Also keep in mind that the skin on the back is equivalent to 4" of gel, plus you have to consider what clothing they are wearing and the resistance it will offer the JHP coming out. A leather jacket or even just a plain wind-breaker will take some oomph to get through for an expanded JHP. ETA: By "any other caliber" I meant 9mm, .40, .45, 10mm |