[ARCHIVED THREAD] - downside, part 2 (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/17/2005 7:54:06 AM EDT
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Hi Folks, I see my "downside of GLOCK" has gotten a flame icon going, it just kinda took off! I guess talking about GLOCK is like bring up religion!! While ya'all have your freedom of expression going on over there, I would continue on my learning quest of GLOCKs. So the question to follow my original post, is that most people suggested the "downsides" are the trigger and the sights. how do you accomplish those two objectives? a GLOCK part? 3rd party? gunsmith? nothing? thanks |
Get a good set of NS or target sights if that is what the gun is used for. #3.5 connector and learing "trigger reset" with lots of range time will help. JMHO |
| I like the trigger and sights on my G26 just fine. I have no issues with either and am decently proficient even weak hand shooting. I suggest instead of investing in aftermarket bling to "improve" your gun that doesn't need improving, you instead spend that money on shooting lessons and practice what you are taught. You'll be surprised how good you can get with an out of the box gun if you do your part. Just sayin' |
Can I post in this new thread, or should I stick to the original one?  I agree, a change of sights, maybe a 3.5 connector. I've run the whole gammit with triggers and connectors and have come to the conclusion that the glock trigger is just fine for it's intended purpose, a combat pistol. If you try to use it as a bullseye pistol and punch paper with it to get small groups, you may get a little frustrated. I am a big believer in keeping the Glock stock and simple, the way it was made to be.
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I'm running a Ghost 3.5# connector, I think, in my G20 --- I usually know this stuff, but I bought it from gotm4 and he installed it before I bought it. From what I see, the installation is pretty straight forward... It is is like night and day between the G19 I had..... 100% better, but still a little mushy in comparison to the 1911's -- then again, what isn't? |
SHIVAN, it's good to see you back here. I thought you were out looking at G26's. On a different note, and worth mentioning, I made some personal comments in an earlier post which were uncalled for and I apologize. Back to business, I didn't mention I bought quite a few of the ghost ultimate connectors which I do like. Some mention the Scherer (sp?) isn't as mushy but I haven't found that to be true. It's just the nature of of how the trigger bar and connector work. I guess a downside has been revealed. |
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Once you learn the trigger and get a few thousand rounds through your Glock the trigger smooths out nicely. Or do as the other suggested and install the 3.5 connector. Night sights are a must. Other than those two things just buy plenty of ammo and you'll figure out the Glock in no time! |
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Sights all depend on what you want to do with the pistol. Lots of good brands out there in night sights and fiber optics. As far as the trigger goes. I can do some amazing stuff with Glock triggers. Typically #3.5, comp trigger spring, reduced power firing pin spring,a good polishing will smooth it out. If you want to get serious. You can drop in a Lone Wold ultimate trigger stop ( i have one in both my 20 and 24c ) and a lightning strike titanium striker and plunger. The triggers on my 20 and 24c feel nothing like a glock trigger and they're very short and crisp. J |
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SHIVAN, it's good to see you back here. I thought you were out looking at G26's. On a different note, and worth mentioning, I made some personal comments in an earlier post which were uncalled for and I apologize. Brian FWIW, your credibilty to me has been restored and upgraded. Takes a big guy to apologize. Some people go through their whole life not being "able" to. Learning 
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I have no idea why people bitch about Glock triggers??? Glock triggers are not bad and for their intended purpose, the Glock triggers are just fine as is. The more you shoot it, the better the trigger will feel. Unless it will be a dedicated competition gun, I would not mess with the trigger at all. If you really feel like you have to, get a factory Glock 3.5# disconnector, install it yourself and call it a day. Sights? Well, the factory sights do leave something to be desired but i don't think they are as bad as some people make them out to be. In fairness, I can't think of too many guns that come from the factory with good basic (non-Tritium) sights? Either way, replacing them is a nice upgrade. As far as what sights you should replace them with? That's a personal thing and most people have their own opinion based on their eyes, shooting style and other factors. One of the cool things about Glocks is, because they are so popular, just about any aftermarket sight manufacturer on the market today has something available for just about any Glock. If you have no preference and are just looking for a set of good quality night sights, Meprolight is a good place to start. Very good quality, easy to find and very reasonable price. You can install your own sights but you will need some specialized tools to do it right\make it easy. If you only have one Glock and do not have any plans for another, it will be kind of hard to justify the cost of the tools. Many dealers who sell sights also offer installation for a reasonable price. Only problem is they can only sight it in for their shooting style\eyes, which may or may not work well for you. The advantage of having your own sight pusher is the ability to sight in your Glock specifically for you. |
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sights: how long does these tritium sights good for? (eg. how ofter I have to replace them) sight pusher/ installer: I guess I need 2, one for front and one for back sights. I do plan on getting a few GLOCKs. Should I stay with GLOCK sight pusher or is there 3rd party brand that is better? >>>Many dealers who sell sights also offer installation for a reasonable price. Only problem is they can only sight it in for their shooting style\eyes, which may or may not work well for you. The advantage of having your own sight pusher is the ability to sight in your Glock specifically for you.>> what is a "reasonable price".. $10? , free if buy the sights? and if I have my own installer, all I can really change is the right/ left, not up / down.. is that correct? I have seen sights in different highth, how would I know which is good for me?? ( I can only imagine I would have to try it out , but probably not many dealer is going to let me do that??) |
By comparison to what? Target guns? Race guns? Single actions? What? Maybe I’ve gotten lucky with my Glocks but their triggers, compared to other DOA type combat style pistols have been just fine. The break is a little mushy but for what it is and what its designed to do, it is perfectly fine. Besides, even comparing them to the best of triggers, I don’t think they “suck ass” or at least, I’ve shot guns with triggers that were a lot worse. My FN HP trigger “sucked ass” before I pulled the mag disconnect!
This is what I just don’t get…Why do they need to be made better? This is a combat handgun not a bullseye pistol. Maybe some people just can’t leave anything alone but I just can’t see the need for a 4# pull and a “glass rod” type break on a combat handgun, especially one that is trying to mimic the feel and operation of a DOA pistol???? It’s just my opinion, but it works just fine as is and upgrading it is just a waste of time, money and effort. Especially when you realize that even with all the tinkering and parts swapping in the world, it will never be as nice as a properly ‘smithed single action trigger. |
Tritium is basically just radioactive gas and technically has a half life of 14 years. In reality, most people find that after 5-8 years, they will no longer glow to an acceptable level. Also keep in mind that Tritium is only really useful at night (hence why they are generally called “night sights”) Because of those two reasons, if you decide on "night sights" it is highly recommended that you get ones that have some type of white ring around them. (yes, Meprolights do have a white ring around them.)
No, you only need one (for the rear sight). I’m no expert so here’s a good thread for you to read over on Glock Talk (which might be a better place for you to get you “Glock” questions answered? best sight installation tool
A lot of variables here but I wouldn’t spend more then $20 depending on things like how much they were charging me for the sights? Was this an “in the flesh deal” or would I have to mail my slide out?, etc.
Correct, sight tools will only adjust side-to-side. When you order your sights, specify what model Glock you have and you should fine as far as height goes. |
I do as well.  Having a quality trigger on a combat gun is a good choice. My WC CQB has an excellent trigger (and is a combat gun) so why can't my Glock??? C4 |
Why would you even compare the two? (apples and oranges). Do you think that maybe because the Glock is a completely different design and it wasn't intended to have the same type of trigger as your 1911? If your "combat" gun requires you to make precision shots at 50 yards then you would be better off with your 1911 with a crisp trigger or maybe even a carbine. Realistic combat ranges would not require such a finely tuned trigger. |
A statement that a Glock trigger feels shitty is simply a statement. Without comparison there is no basis for how you arrived at "A Glock trigger feels shitty." In fact, a Sig DA trigger feels better. A Ruger GP100 DA, and SP101 DA feels better. An H&K Tactical and Mk23 trigger feels better. A 1911 trigger feels better. A Beretta M9 trigger feels better. The Glock trigger seems less than precise, which is compounded by a fairly heavy 5.5lb pull, and a little "overtravel" mushiness. It is made to feel better to the shooter by installing a different connector...at least in my experience. Does it perform differently? My accuracy went up when I changed connectors. It doesn't do anything differently from a mechanical standpoint, but it sure does feel better, and a better feeling trigger usually leads to better accuracy. |
You missed my point. The 1911 is a combat HG and it has a VERY good trigger. The Glock is also a combat HG so why can't it have a VERY good trigger??? C4 |
I'm not sure I understand, I dont think I said that ? |
You HAVE to compare it to something, Grant chooses to compare it to his favorite pistol trigger. In so far as they are pistol triggers the comparison is apples ---> apples. |
That's like asking why jerry Miculeks DA revolver which is a combat handgun cant have a VERY good trigger like the 1911. The Glock CANT have a trigger comparable to a 1911 trigger because they use two completely different fire control mechanisms. |
Yes we all understand this. The point is that a combat HG CAN have a quality trigger and still be made for combat. C4 |
Now there is some great logic. You have to compare something so lets compare a semi-custom single action trigger from a $1.5k-$2k gun to that of a unique DOA type trigger in a $400-$500 mass produced gun and then call that a fair comparison because after all, they are both "combat" handguns....  ... ... .... Thanks for the laugh guys! Have a happy Thanksgiving
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Not sure what is so hard about this people! The WHOLE POINT is that there is NOTHING wrong with putting a better trigger in your Glock. Some said that there is no need as the Glock is a combat pistol and you shouldn't upgrade it. I pointed out that some of the finest combat HG's made have precision triggers in them so why can't a Glock??? Get it???? C4 |
As usual, you are the person completely missing the point. While the factory stock Glock trigger may not be the nicest trigger around, it is no where near as bad as some of you guys make it out to be. A factory stock Glock (with the so called "crappy" trigger and all) is capable of better accuracy then the majority of people using them. You want to spend time, money and energy trying to make your Glock more accuate? Then spend it at the range. News flash - the Glock is not a 1911. That's why some people love them and why some others hate them but either way, trying to make a point by comparing the two is just stupid. No matter how many parts you swap and how much tweaking and tuning you do, a Glock trigger will never feel like a tuned 1911 trigger. Nor should they, considering they are completely different designs. The Glock is the epitome of a low cost, extremely reliable, utility grade pistol. IMO, trying to make it anything other then what it is, is an exercise in futility and silliness. You guys want to swap parts in your Glock to attempt to somehow improve them? Fine go for it, it's a free country but do us all a favor and quit trying confusing newbies into believing these so-called "upgrades" are somehow needed or that the Glock trigger sucks because it doesn't feel like your 1911. Get it? 
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As usual, you are the person completely missing the point. While the factory stock Glock trigger may not be the nicest trigger around, it is no where near as bad as some of you guys make it out to be. I am always amazed on how you can be wrong on so many things all the time. Doesn't that get old for you?? The factory Glock trigger is not that bad, but to each their own and your opinion is no better than anyone elses. A factory stock Glock (with the so called "crappy" trigger and all) is capable of better accuracy then the majority of people using them. You want to spend time, money and energy trying to make your Glock more accuate? Then spend it at the range. No doubt that people should live up to their pistols capabilities, but once they pass it they should upgrade their trigger. News flash - the Glock is not a 1911. No Shit Sherlock! No one EVER said it was.  That's why some people love them and why some others hate them but either way, trying to make a point by comparing the two is just stupid. Once again NO ONE compared the Glock trigger to a 1911 trigger. The point is that if a 1911 can have a custom trigger and still be considered a combat HG then so can the Glock. No matter how many parts you swap and how much tweaking and tuning you do, a Glock trigger will never feel like a tuned 1911 trigger. Nor should they, considering they are completely different designs. Again, NO SHIT SHERLOCK! The Glock is the epitome of a low cost, extremely reliable, utility grade pistol. IMO, trying to make it anything other then what it is, is an exercise in futility and silliness. That is a negative. You can upgrade key components of the Glock and improve it. You guys want to swap parts in your Glock to attempt to somehow improve them? Fine go for it, it's a free country but do us all a favor and quit trying confusing newbies into believing these so-called "upgrades" are somehow needed or that the Glock trigger sucks because it doesn't feel like your 1911. Get it? Actually you are causing the confusion. Telling people that they shouldn't upgrade their trigger (if they want) is ignorance at its finest. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with changing out a trigger system in ANY firearm. C4 |
As I pointed out, I can name at least 5 combat handguns that possess better STOCK triggers than a Glock. Point is you CAN make the Glock trigger feel, and perform, better. If you don't want to, fine... Not everyone wants to sit on a shitty trigger and call it "good enough". You want to? Then leave it be. It can be made better, which is what the guy is asking about... FWIW, I'm not even an above average pistol shot, and I can EASILY shoot better groups with a 3.5lb connector in a Glock than I can with a 5.5lb connector in the same model Glock. Easily. No contest. You do what you feel comfortable with, but when a guy asks about making a Glock trigger better, expect us to respond that it CAN be made better whether some Glock koolaider LOVES it stock, or not. |
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I'm generally a fence-sitter when it comes to Glocks, but two things spring to mind: 1. Why would you NOT want the best trigger possible on ANY weapon, regardless of its origins or intended purpose? 2. The acronym for Double Action Only is 'DAO'. Posting 'DOA' over and over again only serves to make one look incompetent. We now return you to your regularly scheduled shitstorm. |
Let me try to wrap up my final thoughts and comments on this as this clearly isn’t going anyplace useful. I know some of you guys have no life other then the time you spend online and will drag this on forever if I continue to play along
Geez, all these BS posts and you accuse me of being wrong but then you finally admit what I have been saying all along. Thanks.
You realize that works both ways don’t ya skippy?
I love it when you double talk. I would be willing to bet neither you or Shivan or mostly anybody else around here have come even close to passing the Glock’s stock capabilities so using your own statement, you guys should feel no need to upgrade.
Well I guess that sums up the difference between us. I am not an above average shooter either but I try not to blame my equipment for that. Many excellent shooters have shown what a stock Glock is capable of. I would rather focus on myself and my skills then on unneeded upgrades. The factory Glock 3.5# connector is a cheap and usually reliable upgrade that does lower the pull weight of the factory trigger but that’s all it does unless you start polishing things. I find it funny that that you want to call the factory trigger shitty but now that its ~2# lighter you like it? I guess maybe it depends on what you call shitty? I do not consider a 5-8# pull shitty. What I consider shitty is a gritty, rough trigger that does not have a consistent break. My Glock’s have smooth and consistent pulls\breaks and that, along with relaibility, is what I consider important. Sure most people will shoot a lighter trigger a little better but IMO that’s just a cheap shortcut. I would rather focus on technique. I also do not consider a lighter trigger an advantage in a high stress situation.
Thank you peanut gallery but in future I would like to suggest that you master the skill of reading comprehension before jumping in. I never once called the Glock trigger a DOA trigger. The Glock Safe Action trigger is unique to Glocks and do not fall into any of the common categories (SA, SA\DA, DAO, etc). That said, in use it mostly closely mimics a DOA trigger from an operators point of view. That’s why I wrote DOA type trigger. Now I’m going to go enjoy the rest of my weekend including some range time. I suggest you guys do the same |
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You know, I have been shootining for many, many years. I have owned and shot many pistols, and I too like 1911's. Hek, I have boght 6 Wilsons and 3 EB's in the last 3 years, not to mention all in the prior years. So, I am not a 1911 basher by far. I do happen to like Glocks, and feel they serve a purpose. The ONLY time I have found I have wanted or even would have benefited from a better trigger for my Glock is when I'm shooting paper, or bulleyes, tyring to get the best groups I can. I'm no "combat master" as I'm sure many of you here are, however, I do not know how a "great trigger" such as a 1911 tuned trigger will greatrly benefit a Glock in regards to "combat accuracy" at "realistic combat ranges". All this "combat pistol, and "good" trigger talk is meaningless" If you need to use your pistol as a defensive weapon at "realistic" distances. Talk to some people who have been in real gunfights. Ask them how a "tuned" trigger would have helped, or if they even gave any thought to needing a "tuned trigger" during a confrontation. What I'm starting to see here is a bunch of narrow minded guys who recently discovered and jumped on the 1911 bandwagon, and are suffering from some sort of "tunel vision" regarding the pistol. |
Just so you are aware of you who you are talking to, Myself and Shivan have taken several tactical classes together. I just finished an advanced carbine/pistol course this last weekend with a lot of low light/no light shooting. So do NOT confuse me with the majority of the other ARFCOM dealers that rarely if ever shoot. Most (if not all) of the instructors I have trained under, have a custom pistol of some kind (nothing bone stock). So that tells me that they prefer a modified weapon over a stock weapon. Oh and these guys HAVE been in MANY a gunfight and won them all. C4 |
I dont know CVG, but if the KY comment was an insult, which I think it was, you're a bigger fool than I thought. Only the most foolish of businessmen, would join in issues and insult another board member. Bad for business. Maybe you should change you handle so people dont confuse you with the other "professional" Grant whom is also a dealer on this board
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CVG & I have known each other for awhile and now and there is no love loss between us. I have ZERO desire to get any business from him so no worries there. C4 |
It was an attempt at an insult. That's what people who can't win an argument using facts\truth do as a last resort . The funny thing is, even in his insults, he shows his ignorance. While it is true that I currently live in KY, I was neither born or raised here.The sad thing is not only did he decide to try and take a shot at me, (along with every other member from KY) he also decided to take a shot at other dealers on this forum who aren't even part of this so called "discussion". Just another example of the type of stand-up person he is. I take pleasure in knowing I am one of a growing number of people who see him for who he really is. |
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I'm not going to chime in with the name calling but I will give my opinion on the Glock trigger. I happen to have no problems with it and for my purpose of owning a Glock (19) the trigger is more than sufficent for me. I know there are much better triggers out there but for combat accuracy it is more than accurate enough. I use my 19 for IDPA regulary and that is the closest I can get to a real encounter, I seem to do pretty good with it. You guys are comparing a Glock trigger to that of a 1911 and saying you prefer the 1911 which I agree usally has a better trigger but when it comes to the overall package I will take my Glock with the shittier trigger over a 1911 that tends to have alot more stoppages than the Glock. At every IDPA match I have attended I have never seen a Glock malfunction but at every match there is always at least one 1911 that does. |
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OK, I will jump in for a little abuse. Arguing about something like a pound or two of trigger pull seems like a waste of time. My opinion is just that, but I think you should shoot with what makes you a better gunslinger (even if you just THINK it does) while not impairing the dependability of your weapon. I've carried Glocks for about sixteen years now. All I have added are night sights. Department requires a heavy trigger pull and even installs it in my backup G27. To me, none of the other stuff makes a difference at three feet in the dark. I'm with the more training, more ammo crowd. Also seems like a lot of my money/R&D goes into off duty carry (read holsters or whatever you use). This also seems to differ by shooter but whatever makes you put holes in the target works for me. Its been my (limited) experience that getting the weapon out while not getting shot (tactics) and having the right "mindset" is more important that gear and mods. Again, just my opinion. |
Truth and fact huh, oh I forgot that you consider yourself a big internet investigator.  Since we like to stick to the truth, I was NOT the one that made the KY comment, but simply agreed with it. Yes it is a joke and I have many a friend's in or from KY. C4 |