Posted: 9/9/2010 6:25:35 AM EDT
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I'm looking at a few 7mm's for a new hunting gun. What do the HTF guys think about 7mm and does anyone have any good suggestions? I was looking at a tikka.
On a side note I've managed to go through almost a year of stockpiled ammo in 3 months since moving out here to Commerce. I now have my morning coffee and cigg and 2 mags in my 40 to practice with as my morning mantra. I can also say that daily practice has truly changed how I shoot. |
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The 7mm Rem Mag is perhaps the most common trade-on caliber I've come across. A belted magnum cartridge is pretty much unnecessary on the east coast. I've never seen the light on why something designed to kill an Elk at 600 yards was necessary for a 75lb whitetail at 50 yards. If recoil, muzzle blast and extreme overkill are your thing it's not a bad round. Having a gun sales background I can say you practically have to give one away and way undervalue trade-ins for that caliber.
I'd recommend a .243 or .308. Less recoil, smaller guns, readily available ammo, more than enough punch east of the Mississippi. |
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Quoted: The 7mm Rem Mag is perhaps the most common trade-on caliber I've come across. A belted magnum cartridge is pretty much unnecessary on the east coast. I've never seen the light on why something designed to kill an Elk at 600 yards was necessary for a 75lb whitetail at 50 yards. If recoil, muzzle blast and extreme overkill are your thing it's not a bad round. Having a gun sales background I can say you practically have to give one away and way undervalue trade-ins for that caliber. I'd recommend a .243 or .308. Less recoil, smaller guns, readily available ammo, more than enough punch east of the Mississippi. I can't add anything more of value to this. Another excellent post by Sean!!! +87! |
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My very first rifle was a Savage 110 in 7mm rem mag. I was 12 years old and in a pawn shop with my mom and grandparents down in south Georgia. Mom had promised me a trip to Disney/MGM and she was dreading it. In the pawn shop glisening in a black synthetic stock and sporting a huge scope was that 7mag. I looked it over and mom said, "if you want to trade that trip to disney world..."
I put five rounds through that gun every moring all summer long that year. The light weight stock really gave it a kick but who cared! It was a "real" rifle and it was mine. When I got back to Minnesota none of my friends wanted to shoot it. Too much recoil, they said. It was too much gun. Funny I never found it too much. It doesn't kill deer any deader at 100 yards than a 30-06 or even a 44mag, but it is nice to know it can do so much more. It's the smallest african game cartridge and very suitable for the smaller game found there. It's right at home out west with longer ranges for hunting, but hunting isn't where the cartridge really shines. Its very prominent in "f" class shooting. Also called belly benchrest, f class involves long range shooting prone with a bi pod. The high ballistic co-efficients of the 7mm bullet make it choice for that kind of competition. Also the trajectory is very flat which helps even more. There's a decent selection of bullets available, and because apparently no one wants them you should be able to get into the game cheap. I'd take up that offer for a free one, if I were you. I've gotten ammo on clearance for about $0.65 a round. That was the federal bonded premium stuff too. If you want to shoot mine before you take the plunge, just let me know. Its got a sweet trigger and is a very good gun. I've always been proud of it and the story that goes with it. Oh and +1 ol' chap +1 indeed :p Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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well, speaking for myself, I have both a 7MM Rem Mag and a .280 Rem. I use the .280 almost exclusively as it does 90% of what the 7Mag does. I use 140 grain bullets and it will kill anything I care to shoot at the distances I typically hunt at.
however, I hunt in other states than GA and I have taken a 245lb whitetail at 300 yds. with the 7Mag and a 5-15x50 scope. I think the 160 gr. bullets are ideal in this caliber. also, a friend took a 756lb Pennsylvania black bear using 175gr bullets in the 7mag. it offers the ability to shoot heavier bullets or extends the range of lighter bullets to longer distances. it also shoots lighter bullets like the 120gr very well. it is what I will be taking on a planned Antelope hunt. |
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Quoted: also, a friend took a 756lb Pennsylvania black bear using 175gr bullets in the 7mag. it offers the ability to shoot heavier bullets or extends the range of lighter bullets to longer distances. it also shoots lighter bullets like the 120gr very well. it is what I will be taking on a planned Antelope hunt. http://www.chuckhawks.com/rem_managed_recoil.htm |
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I never really got the whole 7mm recoil issue. I've shot my buddies and it didnt seem that bad to me. Now the ammo issues brought forth are interesting. I will be possibly going Elk hunting next year, which was one of the reasons I was looking at that. I suppose I could pull a arfcom and buy both i.e. a 308 but it seemed to me when I got dialed in to that 7mm it was like a scalpel.
Now then I guess that brings me to the .280. What are some good ones and when you say 90% of what a 7mm will do what do you mean? And yes I'm rifle stupid. Crap just realized I gotta go reuup my membership. pooooop |
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I never really got the whole 7mm recoil issue. I've shot my buddies and it didnt seem that bad to me. Now the ammo issues brought forth are interesting. I will be possibly going Elk hunting next year, which was one of the reasons I was looking at that. I suppose I could pull a arfcom and buy both i.e. a 308 but it seemed to me when I got dialed in to that 7mm it was like a scalpel. Now then I guess that brings me to the .280. What are some good ones and when you say 90% of what a 7mm will do what do you mean? And yes I'm rifle stupid. Crap just realized I gotta go reuup my membership. pooooop no rifle less than a .340 Weatherby, shot from standing, is going to feel like it recoils that badly. but hunker down on a bench, or go prone and a 7Mag can be a little stout. not as much as .300 WinMag but I still don't like to do extended range sessions with. the 7MM Mag shoots 140 gr bullets about 150 fps faster than the .280 but uses a belted magnum case and a 26" barrel to do so. the trajectory tables show a modest advantage with medium weight 7MM bullets at this velocity. it is really only with bullets in the 160 and above class that the 7Mag starts to pay it's own way. since I don't hunt anything that needs bigger bullets, I can do 90% of what I need done with the .280. If I want to hunt elk, I plan to sell my 7Mag and get a .338 WinMag anyway, so, for my one and only upcoming goat hunt, I'm guessing the .280 would do as well with just a smidge more holdover at 300 yards. to my mind, the .280 Remington is the perfect North American hunting round. it shoots flatter than a .30-06, hits harder than a .270, and carries the mail farther than either of them. it is basically a 7MM-06 - just like a .270 which uses the .30-06 case but firing a 7MM bullet. because the designers didn't want the cartridge to chamber in either the .270 or .30-06, they moved the shoulder forward slightly giving the case about 6% more case capacity at the expense of a slightly shorter neck. when loaded to the same pressures as the .270, it fires the same weight bullets faster, or heavier/longer bullets the same velocity as the .270. unfortunately, most commercial ammo was not loaded to it's potential initally due to the cartridge being introduced in the autoloading Remington 740. modern ammo seems to have fixed that shortcoming. I use 140gr. Trophy Bonded @ 3000 fps, or my own handloads firing 139gr Hornady Interlock Spirepoints at 3100fps. the SD (sectional density) of the 140 gr 7MM bullet is .248, which is consdered ideal for all thin-skinned North American game. that's better than the 130gr. .270 @ .242, the same as the 165gr. .30 caliber @ .248, and slightly less than the 200gr. .338 @ .250. here is an excerpt from an article written by J. Motes - 8/15/09: Using ballistics information from Remington.com, here is how the .280 Remington stacks up against the .270 Winchester and the 30-06 Springfield. For the comparison the Remington AccuTip will be used in 130 grain for the .270, 140 grain for the .280, and 150 grain for the 30-06. At the muzzle the .280 Remington produces 3000 feet per second and 2797 foot pounds of energy. This compares to the .270 Winchester at 3060 and 2702 and the 30-06 at 2910 and 2820. At 300 yards the .280 Remington is still delivering 2437 feet per second and 1846 foot pounds of energy. The .270 Winchester is at 2442 and 1721 and the 30-06 is at 2270 and 1716. Bullet drop at 300 yards, with a 150 yard zero, is 9 inches for the .270 Winchester, 9.2 inches for the .280 Remington, and 10.3 for the 30-06. needless to say, the difference is small but what advantage there is, lies with the .280. I like it simply because I like being different. 
my rifle is a Steyr Prohunter. I have Winchester Model 70's, Rem 700's and assorted others in my safe but that Steyr is one of the best hunting rifles ever made, bar none. it will shoot my handloaded 139gr Hornady Interlock flatbase Spirepoints into 1.5" @ 200 yds till I'm bored of pulling the trigger. it's a real soft shooter too, so I guess that helps with the accuracy. it's a bit spendy though... second best "pure" hunting rifle and the best for the coin, IMO, is the Winchester M70. Remington may make a better precision rifle but the Winchester was made to hunt. look for one of the Classics, they're the best modern Winchesters. my 7Mag is a M70 Classic Supergrade and while being a beautiful rifle, it has shot, on occassion, 5 - 160gr SMK's into .6". I can't do that all the time but I'm sure the fault is mine, not the rifle's. anyway, that's my version. I'm sure someone can argue what I've said but I'm not interested in that. for the average hunter a .270, .308, or .30-06 will do all that ever they could ask of it. just not with as much style as my Steyr .280... 
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I am shooting 155s and 208s out of my 308, both with great BCs and velocities. At the end of the day, 308 will allow you to do most anything you'd want, and be easier to find ammo, brass, etc. that 208 is a Hornady Amax? that's not a hunting bullet. and that's an awful lot of mail to carry in that little 51MM sack. I'm guessing you got a 20 minute base? |
| A buddy of mine got in a jam a few years ago and I ended up with a rem 7mm mag. Very accurate, the recoil is pretty rough (compared to .308). I found myself downloading my handloads to .270 velocity, recoil was much more managable, used a lot less powder, still killed the deer. That being said I haven't shot that rifle in years, I use a .308 instead. |
(in your best Lurch voice)You rang.
For me I went w/ the 7mm08 because thats what I pulled off the shelf for my second deer rifle. My first rifle was a Ruger M77 synthetic & stainless 7.62x39mm-cool gun but crappy shooter-still a crappy trigger after a C-note was spent to make it better & the dam thing still patterned like a turkey gun at 40 yards with ANY factory load. My rifle shooting buddy was able to get the pattern down to 6" at 100 yards.  The dude who bought it said he could make a shooter out of it. Last I heard after a new trigger & barrel he got it down to 2"@100yrds.
So as I said I went w/ the 7mm08 because it was a Weatherby (actually the same as a Howa 1500) w/ a decent Pentax scope, a good trigger, traditional wood stock & blue steel at a price I could afford.  I'm not hand loading for it so I went through about few brands of factory ammo w/ different bullet types to see what she liked. I settled on Hornady Light Magnum in 139gr soft point type bullet. On a good day I'm good for 1" @ 100yards. On a bad day I'm good for 1.25" @100 yards. Nice shooter. Easy on the shoulder. Smooth action. Has been a one shot stopper on everything I've hit w/ it. Key word 'hit'. I shot below a buck at 30yards when I was about 45' up a tree. I kept waiting for the buck to fall over "like on TV" but the dang thing just trotted off straight toward my stand w/ me still waiting for it to fall over dead. Yep I was a newby hunter then.
When my wife went to buy her first deer rifle I had the shop put a Tikka T3 Lite 7mm08 in her hands. She said it was nice but not just right-think Goldilocks here. She shouldered everything they had but went back & bought the Tikka. Cool thing about the T3 Lite is you can take an allen wrench to the action & lighten the trigger w/o affecting the crispness of the trigger break. It wears a Nikon 3x9x404scope & loves a heavy 7mm bullet. 120gr pattern about 2"@100yrds, 140gr can vary from 1.5" to 2" @100yrds. The old box of Remington 150gr Cor-Lokts I had left from my Weatherby testing can do about .75" @100. She went to the range about 2 times with the Tikka before she came home w/ a bastard child of a rifle-Browning A-Bolt Mountain Titanium .25 WSSM w/ SS barrel, titanium bolt & action & Camo Dura-Touch stock. From what I could find out Browning made just over a handful of rifles in this combination. Nice & light weight shoots laser straight w/ the 110gr but is not a smooth action w/ the short fat WSSm cartridges.
So now I have both a Weatherby & Tikka in 7mm08 as my hunting rifles. The Weatherby is going to get a new stock so my son can shoot it. The Tikka is my go to bolt gun but I love to tote my Marlin .44 levergun in the woods but thats another story. 7mm |
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7mm-08 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v403/DaveDS/LoneEagle7mm-08.jpg It's what brings home the dinner. That looks familiar. Years ago I was at Charlie Elliot & there was a shooter a few benches down from me shooting a 7mm08 hand cannon just like yours. Dam that thing was brutal under the tin roof w/ that muzzle brake. 
Looked like fun but dang the blast was killing me. 7mm |
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For me I went w/ the 7mm08 because thats what I pulled off the shelf for my second deer rifle. So, if you had grabbed a rifle that happened to be an 8mm Mauser your screen name would be 8mmMauser and all your rifles would be in that caliber? Interesting. 
Maybe if it was a sweet looking Weatherby .
But for a screen name none of my other alias worked here so I went to my hunting rifle & kept it gun related.
Yeah I was a total newb when it came to guns when I bought the Weatherby 7mm08. Today I would look toward the more 'standard' calibers-308 or30-06. Geeze, Book of all people to off topic .
To the OP if you want to try the Tikka 7mm08 & there is a weekend we could meet up at CE just let me know. 7mm08 |
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(in your best Lurch voice)You rang.
For me I went w/ the 7mm08 because thats what I pulled off the shelf for my second deer rifle. My first rifle was a Ruger M77 synthetic & stainless 7.62x39mm-cool gun but crappy shooter-still a crappy trigger after a C-note was spent to make it better & the dam thing still patterned like a turkey gun at 40 yards with ANY factory load. My rifle shooting buddy was able to get the pattern down to 6" at 100 yards. The dude who bought it said he could make a shooter out of it. Last I heard after a new trigger & barrel he got it down to 2"@100yrds.
So as I said I went w/ the 7mm08 because it was a Weatherby (actually the same as a Howa 1500) w/ a decent Pentax scope, a good trigger, traditional wood stock & blue steel at a price I could afford. I'm not hand loading for it so I went through about few brands of factory ammo w/ different bullet types to see what she liked. I settled on Hornady Light Magnum in 139gr soft point type bullet. On a good day I'm good for 1" @ 100yards. On a bad day I'm good for 1.25" @100 yards. Nice shooter. Easy on the shoulder. Smooth action. Has been a one shot stopper on everything I've hit w/ it. Key word 'hit'. I shot below a buck at 30yards when I was about 45' up a tree. I kept waiting for the buck to fall over "like on TV" but the dang thing just trotted off straight toward my stand w/ me still waiting for it to fall over dead. Yep I was a newby hunter then.
When my wife went to buy her first deer rifle I had the shop put a Tikka T3 Lite 7mm08 in her hands. She said it was nice but not just right-think Goldilocks here. She shouldered everything they had but went back & bought the Tikka. Cool thing about the T3 Lite is you can take an allen wrench to the action & lighten the trigger w/o affecting the crispness of the trigger break. It wears a Nikon 3x9x404scope & loves a heavy 7mm bullet. 120gr pattern about 2"@100yrds, 140gr can vary from 1.5" to 2" @100yrds. The old box of Remington 150gr Cor-Lokts I had left from my Weatherby testing can do about .75" @100. She went to the range about 2 times with the Tikka before she came home w/ a bastard child of a rifle-Browning A-Bolt Mountain Titanium .25 WSSM w/ SS barrel, titanium bolt & action & Camo Dura-Touch stock. From what I could find out Browning made just over a handful of rifles in this combination. Nice & light weight shoots laser straight w/ the 110gr but is not a smooth action w/ the short fat WSSm cartridges.
So now I have both a Weatherby & Tikka in 7mm08 as my hunting rifles. The Weatherby is going to get a new stock so my son can shoot it. The Tikka is my go to bolt gun but I love to tote my Marlin .44 levergun in the woods but thats another story. 7mm 7-08's a great cart. and that Tikka with Nikon are a great combination. one thing I like about the Nikon's are they are generally pretty light as well as being clear. customer service is great too. |
| After 30+ years of living on a 600 acre farm and witnessing what all different calibers do to game, I would recommend a 30 cal rifle. Either a 308 or a 30-06 would work great. I personally use the 30-06 due to the variation in bullet weight. You can shoot anything from 125 grain up to 220 grain. I only use two different rounds. The 150 grain sierra boat tail with IMR 3031. This is just something I have found that works best for my rifle. The 220 grain is used when hunting what we call the "swamp". Visibility is very limited and it is full of hogs. I have killed my fair share of deer and hogs in my life time so now my nephews and wife fill my freezer up for me all requesting to use my rifle when I take them. On the other hand my 90 year old grand father uses a 308 on his farm with great success. His vision isn’t the best in the world and I have seen some “less than perfect” shots on some animals that do not run. I have had many different calibers over the years and these two are the best in my opinion. I have sold my: 270, 280, 243, 7mm mag, and 257 Roberts. So long story short in my experience stick with the 308 and 30-06 for hunting in the South East. |
| In true arfcom fashion. Looks like the Tikka t3 is coming home with me next weekend and I'm searching for a good deal on a 280. I'd get a 308 but my AK would be upset with me. I have a crappey redhead scope I'll put on it until I save up for some captain fancypants optics. I still have no clue about the 280 as of yet but I notice it seems to be much harder to find in terms of availability. |
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In true arfcom fashion. Looks like the Tikka t3 is coming home with me next weekend and I'm searching for a good deal on a 280. I'd get a 308 but my AK would be upset with me. I have a crappey redhead scope I'll put on it until I save up for some captain fancypants optics. I still have no clue about the 280 as of yet but I notice it seems to be much harder to find in terms of availability. as much as I love the .280 Rem, it is an esoteric round - not many people shoot it or even understand it. the ammo can be hard to find and guns that chamber it even more so, but I do love it for what it is, not what it isn't... and it wasn't my first rifle, not by a long shot. I like funky guns and calibers because I believe at the end of the day, that there's not a nickel's worth of difference in how dead a deer gets with any of the popular calibers. this fall, I'll be taking a circa 1920 Savage Model 99 with rotary magazine and round count window, in .300 Savage, into the woods in search of bambie's dad. it's not a powerful cart. by modern standards but a lot of pilgrims made meat with it, including moose, elk, and grizz. whoo! I can't wait... 
that said, most probably if I was getting a first and only rifle to hunt with, I'd probably choose a .30-06. that caliber will do more that needs done, just by changing ammo, than practically any other caliber around. I load 165gr for deer, 180gr when I've been foolish enough to get talked into hunting black bear, and I've even killed groundhogs across a hay field with 125gr. ammo if easy to find and not expensive. I still have an old Remington 760 in that caliber with all the bluing worn off the receiver from being carried in the hand, year after year, season after season. it's got an old Redfield 4x scope on it, from when that name meant something. I love it too. anyway, that tikka's a nice gun. and I think they chamber it in .280 but maybe not... but pure heaven to me wold be finding a Remington Mountain Rifle in .280 
or, I'd be just as happy to find one of the early Winchester Model 70 Featherweight, with elegant checkering and the Schnabel foregrip in .270. 
either it these guns would be set off nicely with a nice, compact and light 2-7 power Leupold scope. mm-mmm....that's just pure sex right there... or maybe a butterknife bolt Mannlicher Steyr with the full mannlicher fore end in 6.5x55. whoa... I'm gettin' a chubby... 
or how about a lever action Winchester Model 88 in .308. excuse me... I think I got something in my eye... 
or maybe a single shot Ruger #1 in 300H&HMag. wow, what a beautiful cartridge... 
or what about a... ah, never mind. I think you got enough choices... |
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I am shooting 155s and 208s out of my 308, both with great BCs and velocities. At the end of the day, 308 will allow you to do most anything you'd want, and be easier to find ammo, brass, etc. that 208 is a Hornady Amax? that's not a hunting bullet. and that's an awful lot of mail to carry in that little 51MM sack. I'm guessing you got a 20 minute base? Theres a megathread on Snipershide on RL-17 and 208 Amaxes....I could shoot any 200-210 Gr projo.but Amaxes have the best BC. I never understood why people wouldn't use an Amax to hunt. They have great expansion and a 208 would penetrate just fine. I get 2500 FPS with the 208s in a Savage 10FP with a 20" Barrel loading to about 2.810 OAL. |
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I am shooting 155s and 208s out of my 308, both with great BCs and velocities. At the end of the day, 308 will allow you to do most anything you'd want, and be easier to find ammo, brass, etc. that 208 is a Hornady Amax? that's not a hunting bullet. and that's an awful lot of mail to carry in that little 51MM sack. I'm guessing you got a 20 minute base? Theres a megathread on Snipershide on RL-17 and 208 Amaxes....I could shoot any 200-210 Gr projo.but Amaxes have the best BC. I never understood why people wouldn't use an Amax to hunt. They have great expansion and a 208 would penetrate just fine. I get 2500 FPS with the 208s in a Savage 10FP with a 20" Barrel loading to about 2.810 OAL. I get that they can expand. but it is not listed as a hunting bullet. heck, I even know people who hunt with SMK's but these guys are head shooters and have the skill to pull that shot of from field positions. that doesn't mean I'm going to, however... I've had a 150gr. Remington Corelokt whistle right through both sides of a 200lb whitetail and the exit was barely bigger than the entrance. being an exposed lead tip bullet, they've got a reputation for really reliable expansion but this one didn't do much on it's way through. that was a one-shot kill as I took out one lung and clipped his liver. he dropped at the shot and didn't move again but he was still breathing when I walked the 165 steps to get to him. he gave it up before I got my pack put down and my knife out to slit his jugular. when I opened him up his cavity was full of blood - I've never seen so much blood come out of a deer's chest, but it took him a little while to sleep and I felt bad about that... my preferred load in 7MM Mag uses the Sierra 160gr. Gameking which looks a lot like their SMK's except for a bit of an open tip. that's what I used on a long shot on a big buck and it did it's job but I got to say I was a little apprehensive as this was the first time using that load on game. anyway, I'm not dissing your choice of bullet but for hunting, I think I'd choose something more designed for the task... |