Posted: 8/31/2008 9:57:08 PM EDT
We'll I'm looking to get an AR15 (still I know). Right now I'm looking at CMMG, RRA, and ADS. I'm trying to stay in the $800 range since that's probably all I'll get after I sell a few handguns. Which one do you recommend and why? CMMG has gotten my attention so far.
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If that's all I had to choose from, I'd go RRA. However, I would save another $200 and go with an LMT. Complete lower with nothing fancy is $330 and a 16" M4 upper w/BCG and no handguards or charging handle will run about $615. Might be a few pieces shy of complete but it's top shelf hardware for $945+shipping and transfer fee. |
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Also may want to think about a home build. Spike's lower=$115, LPK=$60, CTR/w hardware=$130, Del-ton 16" lightweight upper /w YHM ultralight rail, chrome lined barrel, and detachable carry handle=$593 (plus if you sign up through AR15.com you get a discount)..... Total of $900 (not counting FFL fee and background check) for a pretty nice rifle with all the bells and whistles. Just food for thought. |
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Whats the intended use? Plinker? Duty gun? Varmint? Do you plan on shooting and training with it, to include using it in classes? What kind of round count do you think it will see? I'd say if it is just a fun gun that will see maybe 500 to 1,000 rds a year, go with whatever floats your boat. If you intend to shoot it alot and take a carbine class with it, where you will shoot 1000+ rounds in 2-3 days, save your money and get a quality upper such as LMT, Noveske, Colt, or Bravo Company. Like Animus said, for just about $200 more you can get a LMT, which is a no brainer to me. Buy cheap, buy twice, cry twice. |
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Some CMMG barrels have had issues with their chambers. eta- also if you decide to roll your own, be sure to check how mags fit in the magwell. I bought two DPMS lowers from Citadel in 07 and one has an out of spec magwell and mags are hard to insert or remove. I didn't realize it until after I assembled the rifle. 
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The SOPMOD is a collapsable stock. It is excellent IMO and very comfy....but more money. Its up to you what is better for your needs. I would contact Henderson Defense. I believe they are getting set up as a LMT dealer, and they also have SOPMOD stocks. Head out there and try out the stocks. You may prefer the standard 6 position stock, or maybe a new CTR or Vltor stock. Initially, I'd go with a LMT lower + a 16" LMT upper. Thats a combo that is mil spec and will run for a long time. LMT makes damn good stuff. I have a LMT 10.5" upper that runs like a raped ape, and ErnieB has a LMT 14.5" upper that has never missed a beat and is way more accurate than it has any right to be. Unless you plan on putting a magnified optic on your gun, a LMT will outshoot you. Or you could go the cheaper route and may have great luck...or your gun may shit the bed on you on training day 2 and then you get to play the fix it game instead of being on the line shooting. Its up to you. |
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So get a HHD lower and a parts kit from Model one sales or other outfit. Figure 125 for the lower, and you can get away with 500 for the rest of the parts. take your time and put it togather. -- Not hard, just follow the dirctions Figure you have a rifle for less than 700, unless you really want to scrounge parts. Oh yea you can build an AK cheaper lol 
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I'm afraid this thread will quickly turn into a "My DPMS/Bushmaster/cheap AR is just as good as your Colt" thread. I'm basing my recommendations off the assumption that you want a trouble free AR that will be able to stand up to a higher round count than the average user would shoot. There is no way I'd travel somewhere, spend money on gas , food, tuition, hotel, ammo, etc for a carbine class, and gamble it all using somehting from Model 1 sales. I did that once, and spent most of the first day trouble shooting my AR before finally borrowing a instructors gun. If you want a great AR for a good price this is what I'd do: For an upper, Id get one of these two: Bravo Company 16" midlength BCM Midlength upper Or a LMT M4 Upper LMT M4 Upper I'd then get a parts get one of these parts kits as they are spec'd with only the very best parts you can find, and they really aren't anymore money than a standard kit G&R Tactical parts kits You can read more about the hows and whys of these parts kits and why they came about here Parts kit FAQ Get whatever lower you want, HDI, STAG, RRA, Noveske all are good and pretty much the same. Have the guys at HDI help you assemble it and you will be good to go. Id order one of these BCG LMT Bolt Carrier Group You should still be under a $1,000. Pick a quality 2 point or single point sling depending on your preference, slap on a Surefire G2 light and buy some Pmags and you will have one kick ass carbine that will stand up to 1,000's of rounds for many years to come. Or like I said, buy cheaper gear and have fun plinking in the desert. Just don't look suprised when your gun starts having issues during a class. The whole reason I'm giving this advice is because while I was in the military, I decided I needed to get my own AR to keep up with my training, and went the cheap route. It cost me a lot more in the long run than it would have if I would have just spent a few $100 more for quality gear in the first place. Buy cheap, buy twice, cry twice. You are more than welcome to come train with us and see what we are running and try the various AR's we have and see what works for you. |
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Scot45, That's exactly what I want. A reliable AR since it'll be the only one I'll have for a long time (wife's already pissed  ). That's why I need to sell two guns to make up the funds. Thanks for all that info. Looks like I will spend the extra cash and get the LMT setup. I've emailed a few places trying to find out the prices but I'm waiting on the responses.Btw, where do you guys train? I would like to come out. |
I suggested them several times. They are the go to shop in town for all your AR needs. I like piston AR's, but IMO they are of limited use for the average end user. I just let ErnieB borrow my primary AR-15 to teach with during a carbine class and it went well over 1,000 rounds with no cleaning or added lube. For the average user, what more do you need? I can see the benefit of having a piston on a SBR with a can due to the blowback and pressure issues, but for me personally, I'd rather spend my money on ammo. Now if I was Delta and averaging 2,000-3,000 rounds a day in training like they do, I'd be all over a piston AR. But alas...I'm not  Oh yeah we shoot at Desert Sprtsman's, Boulder City, or Desert Lakes. |
LMT offers a military discount. Contact Pete at Legal Transfers in the EE. |
That's exactly who I sent an email to. Thanks. I found him out of luck since I can only see 25 search results. |
Placed an order with them finally. It'll be a few weeks before I get it since he had none in stock. Can't wait. Again, Thanks to everyone for the advice. I finally get to own an AR15. |
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Shotdown, I am a big LMT fan. My experience with their rifles has been very positive. They offer a quality product at a reasonable price that runs VERY reliably. From a price perspective, they cost about the same as a Bushmaster M4 but come equipped with a better bolt/carrier, barrel, chamber specs, and lower parts kit. I have owned and currently own a few LMT rifles and they get shot quite a bit and perform better than most guns priced several hundred dollars more. From a price/availability perspective HDI offers very competitive pricing and Ron is a good dude. As far as CMMG goes... One of my close friends here in town runs an 11.5" CMMG barrel and it doesn't print for shit. Also, the gas port size is out of spec. My advice is to steer clear. For the money there is much better stuff out there. |
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Glad I asked you guys. I feel very comfortable with the purchase. However, I need more help. I need to replace the handguards. I've read that the Daniel Defense Omega Rail is great, easy to install without any modifications. Is that a good rail or are there better rails that are cheaper? I'll have a lot more questions as I learn so please bear with me. |
FIRST off, you have to stop using 'cheap' and 'better' in the same sentence  The only thing that's CHEAP and high quality in the AR world are PMAGs and BCM bolt upgrade kits.I personally consider weight a prime concern to the overall rifle package. Rails, stocks, optics, etc. all vary by ounces that eventually add up. There are tacked threads in the ar-15 tech forums here that will give you the weights. Similarly, there is a thread on stocks here in case you find the one you get to be lacking. PERSONALLY, I wouldn't mind the semi-permanent install of a Daniel Defense or Larue, because i'm not really swapping things around once they are in place. I've used DDs, Larue, Troy, YHM, and i like the Larue and DDs the best--lightweight, strong, and stay put. So what config did you order? |
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Just the basic config. I wish I was able to add the SOPMOD stock but can't afford it right now since I want to add a rail and an EoTech scope. I don't want to make the weapon too heavy either. Here's what was listed in the website: Legal Transfers Has LMT Back Up Rear Sight Has Gen II 5 Pos Stock Has 16" M-4 Chrome lined 1/7 Twist Barrel with nato chamber Has Standard Fire Control Parts Has LMT Standard bolt group Has M-4 Hgs Has Ergo Pistol Grip Has 30 Rd Mag Has Sling Has Manual |
| If you like the standard 7" carbine length handguard the Daniel Defense Omega rail is an easy way to free float your barrel with a railed handguard. If you have questions on any rail system feel free to IM me. Once you have made your decision hit me up and I will install it for you. It only takes a few minutes and I would be glad to do it. |
| I wouldn't really worry about the trick stuff right away. Buy ammo and focus on the basics of marksmanship first. There was life before CQB optics, VFG, and rails. Not that those things are bad but they can be added later when you decide on what you really need. |
Most guys worry about buying all they cool guy gear such as suppressors, optics, lights, etc but can't shoot worth a damn and won't pay money to take a quality carbine course - but they will spend all their time becoming internet experts. Gte a basic AR and learn to run it well. Be that guy thats steps to the firing line with a basic AR and outshoots everyone else. |
I gotta' agree with Kelly on this one. Though the free float systems are nice I have had a few rifles without them and barely noticed the difference. My advice would be to spend money on ammo and shoot the darn thing. You may find that you like the small diameter of the stock handguard. |
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Is this the rail you guys are talking about? Midwest Ind. Have you guys had any issues with it shifting? |
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We have a Troy Drop In 7" non free float available. Of course we'll make you a great deal if you're interested. Cliff @ Go Time Gear |
Sent you a PM with questions. |
I dunno about that. The two might be more precise but I have no problem hitting steel at 2-400 yds with my 4 MOA dot. The bonus is the 4 MOA is much faster on target at close ranges or on the move. |
The built in mount will absolutely co-witness with the iron sights (red dot on the front sight post). A Larue mount will put the iron sights in the lower section of the EOTech glass. I prefer no mount, others like the lower 1/3 co-witness.
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Mount the EoTech directly to the receiver with the allen head bolt NOT the bolt slotted for a flat head screw driver that most people just thumb screw on. If you use the flat head bolt it WILL loosen and fall off your gun eventually....like mid-class...in front of everyone..... who will then post about how great Aimpoints are on every forum. If you go the EoTech route just get a 512 or 552. Though the internet forums are ablaze with distaste for the battery life and reliability of EoTech I have had both Aimpoints and EoTechs crap out. There are benefits to each type of optic with the durability and battery life nod going to the Aimpoint. However, from a shootability standpoint my opinion is that the EoTech is more versatile when utilizing the reticle to its potential and ultimately quicker. The 63 MOA ring rules in home defense/CQB distances, the 1 MOA dot is superior for making precision shots at distance and getting a precise zero. There is no need to vary the intensity of the reticle to get a fast close range large dot coupled with a long range small dot. The outer ring can also be used for hold overs/offset and is great for nailing movers at distance. That being said I like Aimpoints too. I'm kinda diggin' the T1 micro and might put it on my new SBR. Maybe....
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Great info. I've been doing research on both the Aimpoint's and the Eotech's. Price is playing a big role in my decision unfortunately and that's why I've been trying to sell a few thing here and there. I'm not going to be shooting 1000rds/month through my AR so I may just go the EoTech route. I may just hold off on it and wait until I get my taxes. |
| The store has one on a rental gun and it is pretty beat up. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the the small set screws and the way they are positioned on the rail. The DD Omega (which uses set screws) is a better design. The Surefire rail we have loosens regulary even with loctite. For the money there are other choices that work a bit better. |