Posted: 6/17/2010 8:18:22 AM EDT
| McKay A2 lower marked "Multi" and M16A1 1972 Colt 20" upper with A1 stock & SS CMMG Rimfire conversion unit & CMMG 10 round magazines, is this set up GTG without Bullet-Button ? |
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30" or greater OAL is for semi-auto centerfire rifles. Show me where in the Ca. code it lists 30 inches. Have read the penal code numerous times and am aware of 26 being the hard and fast rule. Unless it's federal which I highly doubt. 12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following: 1). blah blah blah 2) blah blah blah 3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches why I forgot the CF part...who knows. Thanks for correcting me. Uglygun, you have it backwards. NFA law states a SBS (Short barreled Shotgun) is one with a barrel under 18" or 46cm and an OAL of less then 26 inches) SBR Short barrel Rifle is one with a barrel less then 16". |
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What size is entry level in SBR game ? (Centerfire or Rimfire) So federal law states a SBR is one with a barrel under 16", or a rilfe with an over all length of less then 26" This is where Bullpups come into play. Most Bullpups are illegal in CA, since they are made to federal law of 26" and CA law states 30" CA law only lists semi-automatic centerfire as AWs if under 30" OAL, and the Federal Law of 26" OAL is used for rimfire as well as the 16" barrel length. |
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McKay A2 lower marked "Multi" and M16A1 1972 Colt 20" upper with A1 stock & SS CMMG Rimfire conversion unit & CMMG 10 round magazines, is this set up GTG without Bullet-Button ? Keep in mind it is a grey area between a dedicated upper receiver and a conversion kit. Technically the weapon is still a centerfire rifle (ie 5.56 on the receiver and 5.56 marked on the barrel.) You've just temporarily replaced the bolt. Sounds stupid I know, but I guarantee there is a troll some where that would push the issue. Just something to keep in mind. I personally have done it once before, but after more consideration, I think I'm done rolling the dice against some of these ridiculous laws. |
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McKay A2 lower marked "Multi" and M16A1 1972 Colt 20" upper with A1 stock & SS CMMG Rimfire conversion unit & CMMG 10 round magazines, is this set up GTG without Bullet-Button ? Keep in mind it is a grey area between a dedicated upper receiver and a conversion kit. Technically the weapon is still a centerfire rifle (ie 5.56 on the receiver and 5.56 marked on the barrel.) You've just temporarily replaced the bolt. Sounds stupid I know, but I guarantee there is a troll some where that would push the issue. Just something to keep in mind. I personally have done it once before, but after more consideration, I think I'm done rolling the dice against some of these ridiculous laws. Thats is sorta pushing it because the weapon has to be sent to a testing agent for determination. If the submitted firearm can't fire centerfire, the fact they have to add a centerfire BCG shows it is a non-AW as submitted. If you want to play it safe, I would buy a $25 BB and keep it with the rifle next to the centerfire BCG. If they again choose to install the BCG without also installing the BB / 10rd mag...thats their fault and shows you are in compliance with the laws when you do. They need to prove you are assembling the firearm as an AW, the fact you could means nothing. To do this they must prove you are firing centerfire ammo, without configuring it IAW 12276.1. I know Abby on NCIS could do it, but few others could...good thing NCIS has no juristdiction in CA unless you are in the Navy. |
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McKay A2 lower marked "Multi" and M16A1 1972 Colt 20" upper with A1 stock & SS CMMG Rimfire conversion unit & CMMG 10 round magazines, is this set up GTG without Bullet-Button ? Keep in mind it is a grey area between a dedicated upper receiver and a conversion kit. Technically the weapon is still a centerfire rifle (ie 5.56 on the receiver and 5.56 marked on the barrel.) You've just temporarily replaced the bolt. Sounds stupid I know, but I guarantee there is a troll some where that would push the issue. Just something to keep in mind. I personally have done it once before, but after more consideration, I think I'm done rolling the dice against some of these ridiculous laws. That's is sorta pushing it because the weapon has to be sent to a testing agent for determination. If the submitted firearm can't fire centerfire, the fact they have to add a centerfire BCG shows it is a non-AW as submitted. If you want to play it safe, I would buy a $25 BB and keep it with the rifle next to the centerfire BCG. If they again choose to install the BCG without also installing the BB / 10rd mag...thats their fault and shows you are in compliance with the laws when you do. They need to prove you are assembling the firearm as an AW, the fact you could means nothing. To do this they must prove you are firing centerfire ammo, without configuring it IAW 12276.1. I know Abby on NCIS could do it, but few others could...good thing NCIS has no jurisdiction in CA unless you are in the Navy. You're using logic. You must keep in mind logic doesn't necessarily have a seat in the debate over California gun laws 
I'm not arguing what should or should not be legal. I'm just stating realistic scenarios for the state of California as well as some similar states. There are numerous stories of people being arrested, or at the very least, detained for cases that arent any where near as trivial as this. Basically you're skating on thin ice, regardless of being right or wrong. For the most part, you would probably be just fine. Chances are no one would say a word. BUT, like Ray Liotta says, "Being right isn't a bullet proof vest" Also for the record, NCIS may not prosecute civilians in general, but if you play a roll in whatever they are investigating, you're going to be charged. They are in fact federal agents, their task just revolves around military crimes. But believe me, these often include civilians. Especially when it comes to drugs and weapons. NCIS often works with local law enforcement or other federal entities which means if they don't roll you up, the other ones will. Obviously this has nothing to do with the op (or the fake ass show). Just my two cents from someone who had property ("evidence") seized by NCIS, heard complaints from people who have had property seized by NCIS, and someone who has witnessed NCIS chase people off of military installations. 
btw, I'm not in the Navy. 
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30" or greater OAL is for semi-auto centerfire rifles. Show me where in the Ca. code it lists 30 inches. Have read the penal code numerous times and am aware of 26 being the hard and fast rule. Unless it's federal which I highly doubt. 12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following: 1). blah blah blah 2) blah blah blah 3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches why I forgot the CF part...who knows. Thanks for correcting me. Uglygun, you have it backwards. NFA law states a SBS (Short barreled Shotgun) is one with a barrel under 18" or 46cm and an OAL of less then 26 inches) SBR Short barrel Rifle is one with a barrel less then 16". It isn't that I have it backwards. Worse, it's that we are both correct. It is that I was operating under PC 12020 for my over all length requirements. PC 12020 is a catch all for all kinds of prohibited weapons. And thanks to California and their infinite stupidity and desire to be redundant, it is specifically why I asked for the code you were citing for 30 inches. Basically, I wasn't shocked nor surprised to hear it. It's one of those things you have to go looking for and when you find it, you stop looking. I've known and used PC 12020 for work numerous times so I haven't specifically gone looking under 12276 sections. Well aware of the NFA lengths of 16 for rifle 18 for shotgun. That wasn't my issue, it was over all length. (c)(1) As used in this section, a "short-barreled shotgun" means any of the following:
(A) A firearm which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length. (B) A firearm which has an overall length of less than 26 inches and which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell. (C) Any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length. (B) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches. (C) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length. Hence the reason I asked for the exact area of the code. Nice of them to try to define two conflicting lengths. I've poured over 12276-12280 numerous times but the eyes start to glaze over and the temper starts to rage. |
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30" or greater OAL is for semi-auto centerfire rifles. Show me where in the Ca. code it lists 30 inches. Have read the penal code numerous times and am aware of 26 being the hard and fast rule. Unless it's federal which I highly doubt. 12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following: 1). blah blah blah 2) blah blah blah 3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches why I forgot the CF part...who knows. Thanks for correcting me. Uglygun, you have it backwards. NFA law states a SBS (Short barreled Shotgun) is one with a barrel under 18" or 46cm and an OAL of less then 26 inches) SBR Short barrel Rifle is one with a barrel less then 16". It isn't that I have it backwards. Worse, it's that we are both correct. It is that I was operating under PC 12020 for my over all length requirements. PC 12020 is a catch all for all kinds of prohibited weapons. And thanks to California and their infinite stupidity and desire to be redundant, it is specifically why I asked for the code you were citing for 30 inches. Basically, I wasn't shocked nor surprised to hear it. It's one of those things you have to go looking for and when you find it, you stop looking. I've known and used PC 12020 for work numerous times so I haven't specifically gone looking under 12276 sections. Well aware of the NFA lengths of 16 for rifle 18 for shotgun. That wasn't my issue, it was over all length. (c)(1) As used in this section, a "short-barreled shotgun" means any of the following:
(A) A firearm which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length. (B) A firearm which has an overall length of less than 26 inches and which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell. (C) Any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length. (B) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches. (C) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length. Hence the reason I asked for the exact area of the code. Nice of them to try to define two conflicting lengths. I've poured over 12276-12280 numerous times but the eyes start to glaze over and the temper starts to rage. same here man, I have read 12020 thousands of times and didnt realize they quoted nfa. I always refered to 12020 for carry issues. and weapons ID, I guess i glazed over the NFA stuff. |