Posted: 10/27/2009 1:14:31 PM EDT
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Hello from Jacksonville!
I recently received my 2nd Noveske lower that I got for 'free' by purchasing a new N4 and I'm seriously thinking about going with a 7.5in barrel with suppressor. I just spoke to an attorney that specializes in revocable living trust and was quoted $600 for a lifetime trust to purchase title 2 firearms (whatever that means.) Now my local shop said they will provide me with a revocable living trust for the price of the form for $75. I found a form online and printed it myself and started filling it out so I can save the $75 but then I started thinking more. Even if I find the form online and get close friends to vouch and sign off that I'm not crazy, am I following the right path from a legal and cost effective perspective? Do I still need to go through my local shop?? I'm sure the attorney is giving me the shaft, and my local shop is to somewhat by charging me $75 to print off something from willmaker software. Along with both of these choices I know that I'll still have to pay the ATF $200 Can any of you class 3 folks please chime in and point me in the right direction? |
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Ok I just received this from the attorney, let me know what you think?
Thank you for contacting us regarding a Firearms Trust. I would be happy to get the process started once you contact us. Our Copyrighted NFA Trust is significantly different than any other Revocable Trust on the market. A NFA trust is created for the purpose of purchasing, owning, using, and transferring Title II weapons by you and your family. Please take a few minutes to learn about some of the unique issues dealing with these weapons. If you would prefer to speak to someone immediately about these issues we would be happy to talk with you and we may be reached at (904) xxx-xxxx during day and since we understand that many of you cannot speak about this during the day, I am also available nights and weekends on my cell phone at (904) xxx-xxxx. One of the differences in a professionally created NFA Trust is in how the firearms are treated in the event of your eventual incapacity or death. Most trusts name a "Successor Trustee". The problem is that although we name this person, we do not know if they will survive us, or be willing to help out. What we do know is that a close family member or friend will usually volunteer to manage our Estate and/or assets in Trust. The biggest problem and risk to our family is that this person will not know how to properly deal with Title II firearms and unknowingly create criminal liability for themselves or another member of our family. The last thing we want to do when we die or become incapacitated is to create criminal liability for our family and friends. (The penalties for each violation are 10 years in Jail and a $250,000 penalty). A NFA TRUST IS DIFFERENT THAN A REVOCABLE TRUST While it is possible to hold other assets in a NFA Trust, we recommend that only firearms be placed in the trust. There is no reason to subject your other assets to the liability associated with the improper use. No other trust begins to deal with the many unique issues of Title II firearms ownership, possession, transfer, and use. After being reviewed and modified by more than 35 Estate planning and/or Firearms law lawyers, we have addressed almost every conceivable situation. Whether your goal is to purchase a single silencer or hundreds of Title II firearms, our NFA trust can be easily modified to address your specific issues. In addition to the many protections created for your family, a NFA firearms trust can help you acquire class 3 weapons without the need for fingerprints or CLEO sign off. Many CLEO's are refusing to look at Form 4's and/or Form 1's. Below you will find some of the reasons why a NFA trust can be the best way to own firearms restricted by the NFA as well as the typical steps involved in the process and the costs associated with the entire process. Some of the main benefits of an NFA Trust include: 1) The ability to tell your representatives how to properly transfer these assets upon your death; 2) The ability to transfer assets to children even below the age of 18 at a later time while giving the trustee the ability to look at the child's mental state, physical location, and age in addition to whether the child is legally able to own, possess, or use the firearms; 3) The ability for the Trustee to refuse assets transfered by will or other means if NFA and state requirements are not complied with; 4) Requirement to comply with NFA and State laws for transfer of NFA related assets; 5) The ability to make uneven distributions to heirs to conserve value of assets; 6) The ability to purchase Title II weapons, without creating a violation of the duties of the trustee; 7) The ability to use the weapons in the trust without creating liability to the beneficiaries; 8) The instructions and formalities on how to: manufacture items under a Form 1, how to purchase items correctly under a Form 4, how to properly document and transport Title II firearms with a Form 20. 9) Protection for yourself and your family from Constructive Possession - a violation of the NFA. 10) The ability to add others to your trust at a later time and create additional authorized users of the firearms. Each NFA Trust comes with a Memorandum (users manual) which discusses many of the commonly asked questions regarding the NFA and ATF regulations. Because each violation of the National Firearms Act can subject you and your family to 10 years in jail and fines of $250,000 per violation it is very important to understand how to properly purchase, use, possess, and transfer the firearms that are restricted by the NFA. In addition to creating a custom trust for your needs, we teach you how to make the purchase correctly, who can and cannot use the weapons, and how to avoid the common technical violations of the NFA that most individuals, businesses, and trusts make. The steps involved in creating a trust involve the following: 1) Discuss your goals, and what you need to do to protect yourself, family, and friends from violations of the NFA. 2) Draft the trust based upon the above information. 3) Review the trust with a local attorney and make modifications as necessary. 4) You are taught how to use the trust, what it does. 5) We tell you how to purchase the items correctly to avoid violations of the NFA. 6) We teach you how to avoid the common procedural and technical violations of the NFA 7) You sign the trust and send us a copy for review. 8) You make the purchase and can make additional purchases in the future without additional costs associated with the trust. We can complete a NFA trust in as little as 3-7 days depending on your state and the current backlog. Since your are in Florida, I can usually have the trust ready in a day or two. Next step. Contact us today to discuss your particular circumstances, desires, and objectives so that we can determine if the NFA trust can benefit you and being the process or creating your custom NFA trust. |
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Quoted: Hello from Jacksonville! Now my local shop said they will provide me with a revocable living trust for the price of the form for $75. Can any of you class 3 folks please chime in and point me in the right direction? I'd be leary of that, technically/legally only an atty. can prepare a Trust for you. You can legally do it yourself if you like using Willmaker or LegalZoom.com. WillMaker software is cheap on Ebay. I'd like to know who is charging $600 for an NFA trust, typical cost is around $300. Wood & Atter used to do them for around $300. There's another atty in the Tampa area that does them. In Jax, there is no need to do a trust for NFA items unless you specifically want to go that route. There is no problem getting a signature for NFA weapons in Duval county. |
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Hey CWilliams try this http://www.davisbastalaw.com/gun.php Wow this is a lot cheaper then the local attorney I was in contact with. SO... I pay $200 to this attorney, then I pay another $200 to the ATF, wait about 3 months and then I get my shorty right? So if I'm thinking about getting a suppressor, can I get that the same time as the short barrel and save myself another $200? Or will I have to pay another $200 for it even though I'm getting them at the same time i.e. so you have to pay $200 per class 3 item? Oh... I just emailed her that link and asked why she's quoting me $400 more. I will post her response 
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Quoted: Quoted: Hey CWilliams try this http://www.davisbastalaw.com/gun.php Wow this is a lot cheaper then the local attorney I was in contact with. SO... I pay $200 to this attorney, then I pay another $200 to the ATF, wait about 3 months and then I get my shorty right? So if I'm thinking about getting a suppressor, can I get that the same time as the short barrel and save myself another $200? Or will I have to pay another $200 for it even though I'm getting them at the same time i.e. so you have to pay $200 per class 3 item? Oh... I just emailed her that link and asked why she's quoting me $400 more. I will post her response Think of it like this, each NFA weapon has a 'Title' or 'Deed' i.e. a tax paid stamp. Each time it transfers ownership, that tax must be paid. So when you acquire a suppressor, $200 tax, a SBR, SBS, machinegun $200 each. Only exception is an AOW, they transfer with a $5 tax stamp. If you are wanting to 'make' and SBR, you'll file a Form 1 to 'manufacture' that weapon and pay the $200 tax. You as an individual can own NFA weapons and likewise a trust, corporation/LLC whcih is a seperate entity can own NFA weapons. Since a Trust/Corp is a non-human entity and doesn't have fingerprints or a photograph, it doesn't have to meet that qualification. |
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Hey CWilliams try this http://www.davisbastalaw.com/gun.php Wow this is a lot cheaper then the local attorney I was in contact with. SO... I pay $200 to this attorney, then I pay another $200 to the ATF, wait about 3 months and then I get my shorty right? So if I'm thinking about getting a suppressor, can I get that the same time as the short barrel and save myself another $200? Or will I have to pay another $200 for it even though I'm getting them at the same time i.e. so you have to pay $200 per class 3 item? Oh... I just emailed her that link and asked why she's quoting me $400 more. I will post her response
Think of it like this, each NFA weapon has a 'Title' or 'Deed' i.e. a tax paid stamp. Each time it transfers ownership, that tax must be paid. So when you acquire a suppressor, $200 tax, a SBR, SBS, machinegun $200 each. Only exception is an AOW, they transfer with a $5 tax stamp. If you are wanting to 'make' and SBR, you'll file a Form 1 to 'manufacture' that weapon and pay the $200 tax. Thank you for the information! |
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Hey CWilliams try this http://www.davisbastalaw.com/gun.php Oh... I just emailed her that link and asked why she's quoting me $400 more. I will post her response
And here's her response. I smell BS 
We use a high-end estate planning trust that is specifically catered for the NFA. It is highly recommended by the NRA, and our firm and corresponding blog (www.guntrustlawyer.com) are linked with many gun enthusiast websites and law firms. Our trust is used in over 40 states and has been reviewed by over 70 attorneys across the nation. Our trust includes a memorandum that gives you instructions for the use of the trust, as well as future instructions. Also, we will review the trust and answer questions that you have. I have never heard of the firm referenced below, so I cannot comment on their trust. Hiring an attorney is a decision that only you can make, and I will not influence it. If you are interested in having us draft your trust, give me a call. Additionally, I will forward this email to my employer. |
