Posted: 5/9/2010 3:15:58 PM EDT
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Ok, everyone, we need to get on Gov. Brewer about getting this started. Under the AZ Constitution and Title 32 of the U.S. Code of Justice this is 100% legal and legitimate. Some general info can be found here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Defense_Forces |
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They tried to get something like that through the legislature within the past couple years. Failed.
Brewer could always just declare a state of emergency and call up the unorganized militia (ARS 26-124). Same result. Besides, for a formalized state defense force, you'd actually need to be in a state that had money to allocate to that. So, IMO, it's not going to happen, at least not in the short term. |
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Under the Immigration bill, money has been set aside. This would be an all volunteer force who would supply their own weapons and equipment. It can be done if enough people put their money where their mouth is. I did expect a little better in the response department on this, but I guess there are too many who want to talk the talk instead of walking the walk.
And actually it did pass both the House and Senate only to be vetoed by Incompetano. |
| I was thinking of proposing something similar. Figured one of you guys would beat me to the punch. I think this could get a little more momentum now, than the last time it was put forward. Now that the feds won't do anything to help us, we might need it pretty soon. |
| Yea, I figure it would be a good thing. Would probably be best to organize it somewhat along the lines of the military. The cartel boys won't be happy when their main pipeline into the U.S. gets shut down overnight. Good thing I can bring some heavy firepower to bear and will have even heavier soon. If Gov. Brewer forms this, I'll stand and bring some of my own toys. |
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Quoted:
The Arizona Rangers are still in existance. Nothing like 100 years of history to give an organization legitimacy.
Are you referring to the old, fat guys that occasionally direct traffic for funerals ? If I'm wrong about them, what are their legitimate duties ? |
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No ladies and gentlemen, this won't be a weekend warrior sit around the grill and drink beer thing. This will be a no bullshit armed military style force with standards. We weould be able to react to anything from crowd control to civil releif to a terrorist attack to an assault force. More or less the equivalent of the U.S. Military.
More info to follow. Received a call from the Governer's office while I was out today and will be returning that call tomorrow. Stay tuned for more information. |
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Quoted: They tried to get something like that through the legislature within the past couple years. Failed. Brewer could always just declare a state of emergency and call up the unorganized militia (ARS 26-124). Same result. Besides, for a formalized state defense force, you'd actually need to be in a state that had money to allocate to that. So, IMO, it's not going to happen, at least not in the short term. Id imagine you could find a few thousand volunteers in this state to deputize with certain law enforcement power for free. No need to even call it a militia. Just a division of state law enforcement. |
| I do believe part of the money that would be raised by Prop. 101 would be directed to the safety side of things hence providing some funding to either reimburse the volunteers for their expenses or provide some equipment. I will know more once I get to talk to the Governer. |
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A serious effort would do well to study of State Self Defense forces in the 20+ odd states that have them. Study their structure and history and evaluate what works well, and where troubles arise to create a framework that incorporates important lessons learned. From there the legal framework and organizational structure would need to be drafted up for proposition to the legislature. Then of course there's the question of whose paying for what for how long. How will it be integrated with the existing rescue, state security and federal armed forces? Also necessary would be the generation of enough state-wide political capital and good will to help make it worth while for a legislator to show interest. This is more like several years of dedicated work by a growing political action committee than a bbq.
That said, both my wife and considered joining the Arizona National Guard until was clear that likely meant being sent to Iraq or wherever for who knows how long. I think a lot of people would be willing to serve the needs of Arizona and even other states in limited duration search and rescue, disaster relief and state security so long as it meant they weren't deployed to a foreign war for indefinite periods of time. There are a number of organizations that fill some of these roles to some degree like Arizona Rangers or SARCI, but you have to know about them / go looking for them. My best advice is form an advocacy group and start organizing / publicizing. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The Arizona Rangers are still in existance. Nothing like 100 years of history to give an organization legitimacy.
Are you referring to the old, fat guys that occasionally direct traffic for funerals ? If I'm wrong about them, what are their legitimate duties ? No not them. Somehow a private funeral escort company was able to get "Arizona Rangers" for their name. The two are not the same. Arizona Rangers |
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Quoted: I'm in...and as for money? Money? We don't need any money! They don't have to give us any stinkin' money! Badges, however, we'd probably need those. Could use some money for legal fees. Because we would be arrested by the Fed or shut down by the ACLU. The Fed is determined to ignore the 10th. or whatever law or statute individual states, especially Arizona, choose to enact or implement. Would those 'stinking badges' prevent that? Hmmm.  |
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You guys should take a look at "State Defense Forces" as they exist in other states.
You aren't going anywhere with your own equipment and weapons. You aren't running any real missions. They will let you hang out with a bunch of 50 year old fat guys and sometimes sweep up at the National Guard armory when the troops arent there. |
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Quoted:
You guys should take a look at "State Defense Forces" as they exist in other states. You aren't going anywhere with your own equipment and weapons. You aren't running any real missions. They will let you hang out with a bunch of 50 year old fat guys and sometimes sweep up at the National Guard armory when the troops arent there. And if you would have told me 6 months ago that AZ was going to pass an immigration bill like this, I would have told you that you were full of shit. AZ stepped up to the plate on this one while everyone else was just flapping their gums. We are breaking new ground here, so don't be surprised if it does happen. And if you don't like it, you are quite welcome to leave and move to Commiefornia. |
| I say $250 State tax credit for those who qualify, qualifications are, can run two miles in 19 minutes and can shoot 12" groups at 300 yardsmust qualify every year. All seizures of cash and legal items are divided 50/50 between individuals involved and the state tax free. Mess it up, five years in the can. period. of course the running part can be adjusted according to age. |
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Quoted:
All seizures of cash and legal items are divided 50/50 between individuals involved and the state tax free. Many folks here already decry the concept of asset "forfeiture", even more so when the local agencies 'get a cut', as it creates an incentive to find reasons to seize stuff in order to fill the coffers. This is NOT a concept I would support for some state defense force, as it goes against the very idea of DEFENSE and creates an incentive for people to go make shit up to seize someone's property. |
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Part of what I'm looking at is a set of physical fitness standards and also a set of qualification standards with weapons. We don't need some 70 year old overweight individual having a heart attack o0r heat stroke out in the desert. I called the Governer's office and am waiting for her to return my call.
As for the Feds, well they cah try and infiltrate because as far as I am concerned, anybody even trying to bring up the idea of doing something stupid like killing a bunch of cops or illegals will be expelled quicker than thye can shit themselves with explosive diarrhea. We would act within the laws of AZ and as directed by the Governer. |
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Quoted:
Part of what I'm looking at is a set of physical fitness standards and also a set of qualification standards with weapons. We don't need some 70 year old overweight individual having a heart attack o0r heat stroke out in the desert. I called the Governer's office and am waiting for her to return my call. As for the Feds, well they cah try and infiltrate because as far as I am concerned, anybody even trying to bring up the idea of doing something stupid like killing a bunch of cops or illegals will be expelled quicker than thye can shit themselves with explosive diarrhea. We would act within the laws of AZ and as directed by the Governer. If you are mandated as an Arizona Defense Force you are going to fall under the Adjutant General (commander of the National Guard) and will have standards established by the state, fall under the state UCMJ and perform missions directed by TAG and the governor. Those missions won't be direct action aggressive patrolling missions. The chance that the state is going to endorse a militia that sets it's own standards, provides its own weapons and training, picks it's own leadership and decides its own missions is zero. |
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F.H.,
I suggest you read Tiltle 32 of the U.S. Code of Justice. Pay special attention to Chapter 1, section 109. The National Guard has very liitle to do with the State Defense Forces. They are under the direct control of the Chief Executive, i.e. the Governer, of that state. As for carrying thier own weapons, well, the AZ Rangers are REQUIRED to provide thier own weapons, uniforms, and required equipment. As for conducting missions, since the Governer can use the SDF without limits in the borders of that state, well, you figure it out. What I am advocating is a Defense force that is PROPERLY trained, not a bunch of drunken rednecks running around the desert because they want to play soldier. If you don't want to stand up, then step aside. I mean you no disrespect or bear you ill will in that either. |
