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AR15.COM
2/13/2008 6:44:48 AM EDT
Did Governor Ahnuld ever sign that ammo serial numbers law?
2/13/2008 8:20:34 AM EDT
[#1]
The Arnie the liberalnator did
2/13/2008 11:25:35 AM EDT
[#2]
So now you have to have serial numbers on all of your ammo?

What are the specifics?
2/13/2008 3:21:34 PM EDT
[#3]
the way I understood the law, which is a crock of fertilizer I might add;

semi automatic pistols by 2010 must have a device to stamp a serial number related to the weapon onto the caseing and the fireing pin must also stamp the primer... there is one company that holds the patents to this type devise.  No handgun manufacture in the world currently builds pistols wtih this ability.  

so it really isn't the brass that is serialized before being fired, it is a 'device' to serialize it when fired... other wise there wouldn't be any ammo to be found anywere and we'd all combat the serialized caseings with "load your own" investments.

So when you buy you're new pistol in 2010; you can replace the fireing pin with one in brownell's or Midways catalog or just get out your electric drill and a piece of sand paper and give her a few rotations (no bs this was actually said in the CA senate opposeing the bill), personally I'd snap the factory fireing pin in half, then file the serial number stamper so that it is in-operable and if ever asked "I just shot the gun so much it wore out".  I'm an honest citizen, Staff NCO in the US Marine Corps... but I'll be dipped in honey and stand in a field of Bee's before I let my pistol eject spent caseings that track back to me, I honestly don't like to load my mags w/o gloves on at public ranges.

when will the anti's learn that none of the BS laws will not stop gun violence... criminials don't care and once we buy something, it's ours to modify... with in limitations of course.

This law is a BS attempt at the same thing as the "finger printing" of bullets that NY and another state, I believe to be NJ do, were they keep a record of all semi auto pistols from a fired slug WHEN THE GUN IS NEW... so after 5k round the bore has wore, the owner has probly cleaned it with a brass brush, or has rubbed a cleaning rod against the rifleing and thier expensive computer data base is pretty much garbage... bullet fingerprinting has never solved any crime... so now they've gone after the brass.  Bunch of clowns.

You'd figure they'd have learned that after the "national assult weapons ban lifted" and crime dropped and there was a huge surge to by "evil black guns"... they'd just leave it all alone...

OK I'm getting off topic so I'll stop
2/13/2008 3:28:14 PM EDT
[#4]
So the ammo itself doesn't have to be serialized, just new guns purchased after 2010 have to stamp the serial number of the gun onto the spent brass?
2/13/2008 3:51:03 PM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:
So the ammo itself doesn't have to be serialized, just new guns purchased after 2010 have to stamp the serial number of the gun onto the spent brass?


I guess I was wrong on the date it's next year.

That's the gist of it... lets sit back with some pop corn and see what happens.  STI announced after the law went into effect that they wouldn't sell to CA... not that they were selling to CA anyway.

here's the bills:  http://republican.sen.ca.gov/opeds/99/oped2875_print.asp

SB 357 - Did Not Pass... but the other one did... go figure the DOJ didn't even like AB 352



AB 352 (Koretz) requires all new models of semi-automatic pistols to be configured with a firing pin or other mechanism that will imprint identification information on the cartridge when the firearm is fired. Specifically, the bill requires, beginning on January 1, 2009, all semi-automatic pistols to be designed and equipped with microscopic characters that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol etched into the interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol. This information would be imprinted onto each cartridge case when the firearm is fired. A firearm without the requisite microstamping would be deemed “unsafe,” as that phrase currently exists in statute.


Firing pins wear out, but this bill fails to provide a mechanism for replacing them. According to the National Rifle Association, this bill would cause gun owners to violate federal law. Under 18 U.S.C. § 922(k), it is unlawful for any person to knowingly transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered. NRA makes the argument that this bill would constitute a violation of this prohibition and related implementing regulations. The NRA states: “A review of federal law has revealed that AB 352 would make the everyday practice of maintaining and repairing firearms (as outlined in the handgun owners’ manual) a felony. If a person needed to replace commonly worn out ‘micro-stamped’ parts to keep their handgun safely operating, that person would be violating federal law because the alteration, removal, and obliteration of a manufacturer’s or importer’s markings on those parts carries the penalty of up to ten years in federal prison and $250,000 fine.”


This bill would limit the availability of new models of pistols in California without providing any substantial public safety benefit. Criminals could easily defeat the intended identification purpose of this bill by filing off the microstamping on a firing pin. They could also switch the firing pin from one pistol to another pistol. The bill does not provide a mechanism for replacement of a worn-out firing pin and does not clarify how a seller ascertains if a pistol contains the requisite features. (It is a misdemeanor to manufacture, import, sell, give, or lend, any “unsafe handgun” pursuant to Penal Code § 12125.) How is a seller or purchaser supposed to know that any given firearm contains the requisite microstamping?


This bill is similar to prior proposals for “ballistics fingerprinting,” which were abandoned when the Department of Justice concluded that they were unreliable. Much more independent testing is required before the state should seriously consider a proposal like this that would increase the price and reduce the availability of new firearms.

2/13/2008 8:30:42 PM EDT
[#6]
It is a back door ban. It is banning handguns w/o coming out and saying it. Lets pretend the technology existed (which it doesn't), how many companies are going to actually care about California and agree to put money into this technology? Oh ya and LE gets an exemption.

And this will of course work because criminals follow gun laws right?

2/14/2008 7:29:21 AM EDT
[#7]
Well, there will be an increase in semi-auto pistol sales for a while. Also, folks may see the benifits of the good old revolver again.

2/14/2008 11:16:56 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
It is a back door ban. It is banning handguns w/o coming out and saying it. Lets pretend the technology existed (which it doesn't), how many companies are going to actually care about California and agree to put money into this technology? Oh ya and LE gets an exemption.

And this will of course work because criminals follow gun laws right?



I never thought of it that way... I was more concerned with a price increase on new handguns.
2/14/2008 1:11:28 PM EDT
[#9]
We are talking about different things here.  The governor has signed the microstamping bill, as described above, into law.  Another bill that has been in the California legislature for the past couple of sessions, IIRC, would have required all ammunition to be serialized.  This has not made it into law.

Ammo serialization bills have been introduced, pushed by some off the wall lobbying group, in whole bunch of states this year.  I don't know about California.
2/14/2008 3:39:16 PM EDT
[#10]
It also doesn't require the millions and millions of pistols in California to be altered. Figure in another 200-300 years they'll be gone and homie will get caught shooting his stolen gun with the technology. It's called the CSI effect where science ignorate citizens think that science can solve people problems. Ain't gonna' happen.
2/15/2008 1:09:10 AM EDT
[#11]
I forgot which web site had a Q&A page with the microstamping inventor.  I found his attempts at justifying the crime solving potential of his invention to be at best, laughable.