Posted: 1/27/2012 9:58:43 AM EDT
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-16769506
Link is to a story reported today about a murder in Manchester yesterday where some lad was bludgeoned, shot in the head with a shotgun, decapitated and then set on fire 
The earlier reports stated that the two now charged over the murder had earlier been arrested for possession of shotgun cartridges. I didn't think this was illegal. Has the law changed? |
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The other thing is this is right at the back of Stockport police station, not far from the train station and 24 hour Maccy D's its not a quiet council estate in the suburbs.
Map If you zoom once on the map you will see Gala bingo near the top, they reported the fire on the grass verge opposite,if you look at 5 o'clock you will see a street called Covent Gardens that's were the two that have been arrested live. The building to the right of Stockport magistrates court is the main Stockport nic, so they were really clever these two to bump him off in the middle of town at the back of the police station and then dump the body round the corner! In the words of Al Murray pub landlord " They didn't think it through" |
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Jounalistic licence. They were arrested under suspicion of Murder. The shotgun carts were circumstantial It said thet were arrested before a body was discoveredi did a search and it appears it isn't illegal to possess They would have been stopped/searched under suspicion of an offence. The cartridges would have been discovered after the original cause for the stop/search. Unless of course, the police had prior intelligence that the cartridges were in their posession and/or on stopping them the PNC check revealed markers against them for prior offences/known contacts or outstanding warrants. Not necessarily an offence to have a an item but being equipped to commit an offence, while being under suspicion of criminal activity is likely to get you nicked pending further investigation. Legitimate reason for posession would also have been a point upon which the officers would need to establish due cause. Not an offence to posess in itself but certainly not something that would be overlooked. |
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The only law I'm aware of that supposedly exists is that you're supposed to show a license before sale takes place. Your average policemen that comes across somebody in possession of S2 cartridges would very likely assume they were illegal.
My favourite invented illegal weapon was a friends ruler that was confiscated several years ago. He had it in a bag alongside all his pens and books for college, which he was on his way to. Apparently it was illegal due to being made of metal, not plastic. |
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Quoted: The only law I'm aware of that supposedly exists is that you're supposed to show a license before sale takes place. Your average policemen that comes across somebody in possession of S2 cartridges would very likely assume they were illegal. My favourite invented illegal weapon was a friends ruler that was confiscated several years ago. He had it in a bag alongside all his pens and books for college, which he was on his way to. Apparently it was illegal due to being made of metal, not plastic. Nobody has a real use or reason for possessing metal rulers, the fact that someone even wants one is proof that they can't be trusted with one, the police should publish the names and addresses of people owning metal rulers because their neighbours have a right to know their lives are at risk etc etc |
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The only law I'm aware of that supposedly exists is that you're supposed to show a license before sale takes place. Your average policemen that comes across somebody in possession of S2 cartridges would very likely assume they were illegal. My favourite invented illegal weapon was a friends ruler that was confiscated several years ago. He had it in a bag alongside all his pens and books for college, which he was on his way to. Apparently it was illegal due to being made of metal, not plastic. Nobody has a real use or reason for possessing metal rulers, the fact that someone even wants one is proof that they can't be trusted with one, the police should publish the names and addresses of people owning metal rulers because their neighbours have a right to know their lives are at risk etc etc
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Jounalistic licence. They were arrested under suspicion of Murder. The shotgun carts were circumstantial It said thet were arrested before a body was discoveredi did a search and it appears it isn't illegal to possess They would have been stopped/searched under suspicion of an offence. The cartridges would have been discovered after the original cause for the stop/search. Unless of course, the police had prior intelligence that the cartridges were in their posession and/or on stopping them the PNC check revealed markers against them for prior offences/known contacts or outstanding warrants. Not necessarily an offence to have a an item but being equipped to commit an offence, while being under suspicion of criminal activity is likely to get you nicked pending further investigation. Legitimate reason for posession would also have been a point upon which the officers would need to establish due cause. Not an offence to posess in itself but certainly not something that would be overlooke If they were arrested before the body was found then they must have just left the place were they had dumped their victim and been on the way back to sort the mess out from the murder. If any police officer stopped someone and upon doing a search found shotgun shells on them at that time of morning in that local his alarm bell is going to give him tinnitus for a month it's going off that loud. Also would have thought that they are probably known to the local officers round there,murder with an accomplice is not the normal first step on the criminal ladder. |
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Jounalistic licence. They were arrested under suspicion of Murder. The shotgun carts were circumstantial It said thet were arrested before a body was discoveredi did a search and it appears it isn't illegal to possess They would have been stopped/searched under suspicion of an offence. The cartridges would have been discovered after the original cause for the stop/search. Unless of course, the police had prior intelligence that the cartridges were in their posession and/or on stopping them the PNC check revealed markers against them for prior offences/known contacts or outstanding warrants. Not necessarily an offence to have a an item but being equipped to commit an offence, while being under suspicion of criminal activity is likely to get you nicked pending further investigation. Legitimate reason for posession would also have been a point upon which the officers would need to establish due cause. Not an offence to posess in itself but certainly not something that would be overlooke If they were arrested before the body was found then they must have just left the place were they had dumped their victim and been on the way back to sort the mess out from the murder. If any police officer stopped someone and upon doing a search found shotgun shells on them at that time of morning in that local his alarm bell is going to give him tinnitus for a month it's going off that loud. Also would have thought that they are probably known to the local officers round there,murder with an accomplice is not the normal first step on the criminal ladder. Yep, hence my comment about them be "flagged" |
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Jounalistic licence. They were arrested under suspicion of Murder. The shotgun carts were circumstantial It said thet were arrested before a body was discoveredi did a search and it appears it isn't illegal to possess They would have been stopped/searched under suspicion of an offence. The cartridges would have been discovered after the original cause for the stop/search. Unless of course, the police had prior intelligence that the cartridges were in their posession and/or on stopping them the PNC check revealed markers against them for prior offences/known contacts or outstanding warrants. Not necessarily an offence to have a an item but being equipped to commit an offence, while being under suspicion of criminal activity is likely to get you nicked pending further investigation. Legitimate reason for posession would also have been a point upon which the officers would need to establish due cause. Not an offence to posess in itself but certainly not something that would be overlooked. Going equipped is a specific offence. You cannot be going equipped to commit any old "offence". You can be arrested for going equipped to commit burglary, theft or cheat ( fraud ) I cannot see how possession of shotgun cartridges could be deemed to fall under this offence. However it has not been unheard of for an officer ( even one who shoots privately and knows the firearms act well  ) to find a guy he knows is up to no good ( but not enough evidence to arrest him for ) finds something on him which he knows is not subject to the firearms act BUT haul him in on suspision of possession of a firearm.
( Basically at training school officers are told that they are not firearms experts and if in doubt arrest and take it back to the station for an expert to examine ) |
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Jounalistic licence. They were arrested under suspicion of Murder. The shotgun carts were circumstantial It said thet were arrested before a body was discoveredi did a search and it appears it isn't illegal to possess They would have been stopped/searched under suspicion of an offence. The cartridges would have been discovered after the original cause for the stop/search. Unless of course, the police had prior intelligence that the cartridges were in their posession and/or on stopping them the PNC check revealed markers against them for prior offences/known contacts or outstanding warrants. Not necessarily an offence to have a an item but being equipped to commit an offence, while being under suspicion of criminal activity is likely to get you nicked pending further investigation. Legitimate reason for posession would also have been a point upon which the officers would need to establish due cause. Not an offence to posess in itself but certainly not something that would be overlooked. Going equipped is a specific offence. You cannot be going equipped to commit any old "offence". You can be arrested for going equipped to commit burglary, theft or cheat ( fraud ) I cannot see how possession of shotgun cartridges could be deemed to fall under this offence. However it has not been unheard of for an officer ( even one who shoots privately and knows the firearms act well ) to find a guy he knows is up to no good ( but not enough evidence to arrest him for ) finds something on him which he knows is not subject to the firearms act BUT haul him in on suspision of possession of a firearm.
( Basically at training school officers are told that they are not firearms experts and if in doubt arrest and take it back to the station for an expert to examine ) I think simple possession is ok (subject to Sect 21) but possession in a public place without a reasonable excuse isn't. You don't even need a SGC in your name to purchase. |
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I think simple possession is ok (subject to Sect 21) but possession in a public place without a reasonable excuse isn't. You don't even need a SGC in your name to purchase. From section 19 of the firearms act... Carrying firearm in a public place. A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place (a)a loaded shot gun, (b)an air weapon (whether loaded or not), (c)any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or (d)an imitation firearm. |
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Jounalistic licence. They were arrested under suspicion of Murder. The shotgun carts were circumstantial It said thet were arrested before a body was discoveredi did a search and it appears it isn't illegal to possess They would have been stopped/searched under suspicion of an offence. The cartridges would have been discovered after the original cause for the stop/search. Unless of course, the police had prior intelligence that the cartridges were in their posession and/or on stopping them the PNC check revealed markers against them for prior offences/known contacts or outstanding warrants. Not necessarily an offence to have a an item but being equipped to commit an offence, while being under suspicion of criminal activity is likely to get you nicked pending further investigation. Legitimate reason for posession would also have been a point upon which the officers would need to establish due cause. Not an offence to posess in itself but certainly not something that would be overlooked. Going equipped is a specific offence. You cannot be going equipped to commit any old "offence". You can be arrested for going equipped to commit burglary, theft or cheat ( fraud ) I cannot see how possession of shotgun cartridges could be deemed to fall under this offence. However it has not been unheard of for an officer ( even one who shoots privately and knows the firearms act well ) to find a guy he knows is up to no good ( but not enough evidence to arrest him for ) finds something on him which he knows is not subject to the firearms act BUT haul him in on suspision of possession of a firearm.
( Basically at training school officers are told that they are not firearms experts and if in doubt arrest and take it back to the station for an expert to examine ) I'm guessing, but I suspect a knife or some other bladed item was used to remove the head. Last time I checked, shotgun cartridges were pretty blunt and not very good at severing things. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Jounalistic licence. They were arrested under suspicion of Murder. The shotgun carts were circumstantial It said thet were arrested before a body was discoveredi did a search and it appears it isn't illegal to possess They would have been stopped/searched under suspicion of an offence. The cartridges would have been discovered after the original cause for the stop/search. Unless of course, the police had prior intelligence that the cartridges were in their posession and/or on stopping them the PNC check revealed markers against them for prior offences/known contacts or outstanding warrants. Not necessarily an offence to have a an item but being equipped to commit an offence, while being under suspicion of criminal activity is likely to get you nicked pending further investigation. Legitimate reason for posession would also have been a point upon which the officers would need to establish due cause. Not an offence to posess in itself but certainly not something that would be overlooked. Going equipped is a specific offence. You cannot be going equipped to commit any old "offence". You can be arrested for going equipped to commit burglary, theft or cheat ( fraud ) I cannot see how possession of shotgun cartridges could be deemed to fall under this offence. However it has not been unheard of for an officer ( even one who shoots privately and knows the firearms act well ) to find a guy he knows is up to no good ( but not enough evidence to arrest him for ) finds something on him which he knows is not subject to the firearms act BUT haul him in on suspision of possession of a firearm.( Basically at training school officers are told that they are not firearms experts and if in doubt arrest and take it back to the station for an expert to examine ) I'm guessing, but I suspect a knife or some other bladed item was used to remove the head. Last time I checked, shotgun cartridges were pretty blunt and not very good at severing things. Oh I don't know.......I've seen heads removed with a shotgun cartridge.................... |