Posted: 4/27/2026 12:20:00 AM EDT
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Although the kooky left will try to tell us that Becerra is in the lead, I call bull-fuckin-shit, We CANNOT allow that! So between Bianco and Hilton, who do we like? |
I teach my daughters to shoot because a restraining order is just a piece of paper.
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| I personally want Bianco in the slot more than Hilton. I don't give a shit if he's said that he supports a pathway to citizenship, he's running for a state slot not a federal position. Hilton has only been in the country for 12 years or something like that, and I just don't buy that he's culturally an American. His running mate is also a former democrat senator. I just don't trust either one of them. |
Watching the kids shoot Pieeater's 1919 was great. Nothing warms the heart more than seeing a little kid kneeling in a pile of brass and links.-Pthfndr after the Nov 13th NorCal shoot
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Originally Posted By -Blue-: I personally want Bianco in the slot more than Hilton. I don't give a shit if he's said that he supports a pathway to citizenship, he's running for a state slot not a federal position. Hilton has only been in the country for 12 years or something like that, and I just don't buy that he's culturally an American. His running mate is also a former democrat senator. I just don't trust either one of them. Hilton says all the right things but I like Bianco. Either way, it's a win against the dems. |
I teach my daughters to shoot because a restraining order is just a piece of paper.
Author: unknown
Author: unknown
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Originally Posted By Koa: Hilton says all the right things but I like Bianco. Either way, it's a win against the dems. 100% I don't trust Hilton as much as I would Bianco, but either of those two would be a million times better than the other choices. I like Matt Mahan also, he's my mayor and out of all the democrats I feel like he's more of an old school democrat rather than the new age frothing at the mouth libtard variety. If we lost to Mahan for some wild reason, I wouldn't be terribly upset. |
Watching the kids shoot Pieeater's 1919 was great. Nothing warms the heart more than seeing a little kid kneeling in a pile of brass and links.-Pthfndr after the Nov 13th NorCal shoot
| My primary vote will go to Bianco. If it comes to it and I have to change up in the general, so be it. Something about Hilton just doesn’t seem right to me. Only in the US for 12 years and only a citizen for 5-6. His record in the UK doesn’t give me the warm and fuzzies, he’s switched parties multiple times… That said, either one would be better than the 2 democratic front runners. |
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We need both in the top two or a Democrat will be Governor again. Trump's endorsement was stupid AF and is helping to tilt the scales towards Hilton and I think Bianco has dropped to 3rd or 4th in the polls now. This isn't the time to decide which is better, but rather, to vote tactically. To that end, with Bianco behind, I highly encourage people to vote for Bianco. That is what I'm doing. Not because of my opinions of him but because he needs to get bumped back up to 2nd place. |
The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton
-Lord Acton
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Originally Posted By bigstick61: We need both in the top two or a Democrat will be Governor again. Trump's endorsement was stupid AF and is helping to tilt the scales towards Hilton and I think Bianco has dropped to 3rd or 4th in the polls now. This isn't the time to decide which is better, but rather, to vote tactically. To that end, with Bianco behind, I highly encourage people to vote for Bianco. That is what I'm doing. Not because of my opinions of him but because he needs to get bumped back up to 2nd place. Agreed |
I teach my daughters to shoot because a restraining order is just a piece of paper.
Author: unknown
Author: unknown
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Originally Posted By bigstick61: We need both in the top two or a Democrat will be Governor again. Trump's endorsement was stupid AF and is helping to tilt the scales towards Hilton and I think Bianco has dropped to 3rd or 4th in the polls now. This isn't the time to decide which is better, but rather, to vote tactically. To that end, with Bianco behind, I highly encourage people to vote for Bianco. That is what I'm doing. Not because of my opinions of him but because he needs to get bumped back up to 2nd place. Agreed, but CA won’t let that happen. Heck, they just found a lock box of uncounted ballots from Prop 50. |
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Originally Posted By Bigtwin: Bianco 100% in my house! Hilton is a fucking Brit fag that was lumped in for good reason.....to split the vote! Don't forget Newscum said the quiet part out loud, he has a procedure in place if the R's get the top two tickets. Well you need two in order to have any chance at winning. There are no other major Republicans. I don't see how that's a valid criticism. What did Newsom say, exactly? Perhaps he did say something, but there is so much bullshit being made up and floating around now that I need to see proof of these kinds of claims. |
The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton
-Lord Acton
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Voting for Hilton just because the polls are starting to look bad. I will take a change of what we currently have even if it’s just a minor one I swear, if we didn’t have family obligations locking us to this area, I would be leaving so damn fast |
Music begins at 138
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Originally Posted By Belfry_Express: Voting for Hilton just because the polls are starting to look bad. I will take a change of what we currently have even if it’s just a minor one I swear, if we didn’t have family obligations locking us to this area, I would be leaving so damn fast I'm really curious to see where the final tally is going to end up. Part of me believes the polls aren't real, and they're only saying Bianco doesn't have a chance just to sabotage. |
Watching the kids shoot Pieeater's 1919 was great. Nothing warms the heart more than seeing a little kid kneeling in a pile of brass and links.-Pthfndr after the Nov 13th NorCal shoot
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Who knows of a reliable source of "reasonably" current polling figures? We want to vote Bianco, but not if he is too far out of the running. We want our votes to count, even if it's for Hilton. Everything I've found online is giving stats from before the weekend. Anyone know of a good source? |
| Your votes won't mean a damned thing if Hilton is the only Republican in the top 2. Guaranteed Democrat victory. Bianco is the logical choice to vote for in the primary at this stage. Anything else actually is throwing your vote away. If only one Republican makes it, it won't matter who is best or who is leading the polls. The Democrat will win. It has been frustrating trying to explain this to people. |
The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton
-Lord Acton
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Originally Posted By catrepair: That was my take as well. Originally Posted By catrepair: Originally Posted By Belfry_Express: Voting for Hilton just because the polls are starting to look bad. That was my take as well. Why? I'm trying to understand the logic here. |
The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton
-Lord Acton
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Originally Posted By bigstick61: Why? I'm trying to understand the logic here. I do not understand YOUR logic. You seem to be recommending Republicans dilute their votes by encouraging votes for two Republican candidates. Splitting the vote is not good in this State. It is how several good opportunities have been lost. |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: I do not understand YOUR logic. You seem to be recommending Republicans dilute their votes by encouraging votes for two Republican candidates. Splitting the vote is not good in this State. It is how several good opportunities have been lost. Originally Posted By Trollslayer: Originally Posted By bigstick61: Why? I'm trying to understand the logic here. I do not understand YOUR logic. You seem to be recommending Republicans dilute their votes by encouraging votes for two Republican candidates. Splitting the vote is not good in this State. It is how several good opportunities have been lost. The logic is that the only way a Republican can be Governor is if the top two candidates are Republicans. If it is a Republican and a Democrat, it is a guaranteed win for the Democrat. So Hilton will not be Governor; it will be whichever Democrat is on top, which is probably going to be Becerra. So when Hilton and Bianco were both on the top of the polls, this was perfect, and it made the Democrats genuinely panic because unlike the average California Republican, apparently, they very well understood this fact. Had Trump not endorsed Hilton, to odds of this continuing were not a sure thing, but much higher than in the event he endorsed someone, and the results were predictable. Where dilution is a problem is if there are more than two major Republican candidates. But that was not the case here. The logical thing was to vote for Bianco once he fell behind to help boost him back up. If for some reason it meant both did not make the top two, then it is no different than if only one of them made it. Either way a Democrat wins. But if you can boost both into the top two, then a Republican is guaranteed to win and this would have had important down-ballot impacts in the general election. What I don't understand is emphasizing the lead candidate and switching one's vote to him under the conditions under which California primaries are held. Literally makes zero sense. This was the perfect scenario for electing a Republican and it specifically required splitting the Republican vote as evenly as possible between those two candidates. You have not answered. What is the logic to that? So cool, Hilton got on top. Now he is all set up to lose in November. Congrats! |
The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton
-Lord Acton
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First, a complaint - it's two full days since the election and I still don't see a comprehensive set of results. From what I do see, there weren't enough total votes for Republicans to have them split and have either make it to the general election in November. Splitting the Republican vote now seems to be a way to ensure the November election is between Becerra (D) and Steyer (D). |
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I went scouting for the latest vote tallies in the gubernatorial race. Remember, it is a race to the top two spots, not a race for third place. Hilton (or Bianco) had to at least beat Steyer. Hilton did that. That was the only way for any (R) to show up on the ballot in November. A simple 50:50 split of Republican votes would result in Becerra and Steyer on November's ballot. I looked at the numbers several ways and that is my conclusion. With these vote tallies, No other option resulted in your "two Republicans on the Ballot in November" scenario. Had the Republican vote been split such that Hilton exactly matched Steyer, the excess votes would still not be enough for Bianco to overcome Steyer and not even close to Becerra. Bianco got too few votes to ever overcome Steyer's lead. With 56% of the votes reported - Total votes =4,901,850 Republican votes = 2,004,210 Democratic votes = 2,897,640 Becerra votes = 1,322,704 Hilton votes = 1,423,464 Steyer votes = 1,022,601 Bianco votes = 580,746 |
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What we might be seeing in those voting tallies is the consequences of so many Republican votrers leaving the State. When the tallies are completed, it may be there just aren't enough Republican voters to take the gubernatorial race. Certainly, if all the (D) voters end up voting for Becerra, Hilton doesn't have a chance to take the election and our single party State government will continue. To win in November, Hilton's campaign has to sway about a million (D) voters to go (R). That is one heck of a challenge. I hope he is able to do so. A single party government is a set up for corruption, pandering special interests, etc, as there are no checks and balances. All by itself, that has to be a campaign message. Californians, for the sake of California's future, need to restore a two party government by voting for a Republican governor this November. |
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I got another update to the voting tallies. Nothing has changed in terms of the evaluation I posted above - votes for Bianco and the other (R) candidates dissipated the votes for a Republican candidate. So far, that's okay, as at least one (R) is likely to appear on the ballot this fall. I'm hedging here because only 60% of votes have been reported. This part of it is down right goofy. There were 61 candidates on the ballot, including one independant listed as "Living for God and Country Demott". 80,759 votes went to Republicans other than Hilton and Bianco, siphoning votes away from the two top runners. |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: First, a complaint - it's two full days since the election and I still don't see a comprehensive set of results. From what I do see, there weren't enough total votes for Republicans to have them split and have either make it to the general election in November. Splitting the Republican vote now seems to be a way to ensure the November election is between Becerra (D) and Steyer (D). So what? R vs. D still means a D wins. Whether or not a Republican can be Governor is decided in the primaries. |
The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton
-Lord Acton
|
Originally Posted By Trollslayer: I went scouting for the latest vote tallies in the gubernatorial race. Remember, it is a race to the top two spots, not a race for third place. Hilton (or Bianco) had to at least beat Steyer. Hilton did that. That was the only way for any (R) to show up on the ballot in November. A simple 50:50 split of Republican votes would result in Becerra and Steyer on November's ballot. I looked at the numbers several ways and that is my conclusion. With these vote tallies, No other option resulted in your "two Republicans on the Ballot in November" scenario. Had the Republican vote been split such that Hilton exactly matched Steyer, the excess votes would still not be enough for Bianco to overcome Steyer and not even close to Becerra. Bianco got too few votes to ever overcome Steyer's lead. With 56% of the votes reported - Total votes =4,901,850 Republican votes = 2,004,210 Democratic votes = 2,897,640 Becerra votes = 1,322,704 Hilton votes = 1,423,464 Steyer votes = 1,022,601 Bianco votes = 580,746 We will see what the final tally will be. It would likely be much more even between the candidates if Trump had not endorsed Hilton which was stupid AF. Why does it matter if there is merely an R on the ballot in the general? Without two Rs on the ballot, a D victory is a foregone conclusion. Remember, it is a race to the top two spots regardless of party and in California, Republicans no longer have any chance at any statewide general election that includes a Democratic candidate. |
The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton
-Lord Acton
|
Originally Posted By Trollslayer: What we might be seeing in those voting tallies is the consequences of so many Republican votrers leaving the State. When the tallies are completed, it may be there just aren't enough Republican voters to take the gubernatorial race. Certainly, if all the (D) voters end up voting for Becerra, Hilton doesn't have a chance to take the election and our single party State government will continue. To win in November, Hilton's campaign has to sway about a million (D) voters to go (R). That is one heck of a challenge. I hope he is able to do so. A single party government is a set up for corruption, pandering special interests, etc, as there are no checks and balances. All by itself, that has to be a campaign message. Californians, for the sake of California's future, need to restore a two party government by voting for a Republican governor this November. Hilton has no chance in the current climate with California's current demographics. Trump's endorsement doesn't help. Literally the only chance he ever had to be Governor is for him and Bianco to be top 2. Not happening now, so he will not be Governor. If the dynamic had not been impacted by Trump's endorsement and the Democratic vote had remained fractured, it is very possible that the top two would be Republicans. But once Trump tipped the scales (reinforced by California Republicans who don't understand how our elections work) and Democrats consolidated around Becerra and Steyer, the chance of this diminished. |
The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton
-Lord Acton
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: I got another update to the voting tallies. Nothing has changed in terms of the evaluation I posted above - votes for Bianco and the other (R) candidates dissipated the votes for a Republican candidate. So far, that's okay, as at least one (R) is likely to appear on the ballot this fall. I'm hedging here because only 60% of votes have been reported. This part of it is down right goofy. There were 61 candidates on the ballot, including one independant listed as "Living for God and Country Demott". 80,759 votes went to Republicans other than Hilton and Bianco, siphoning votes away from the two top runners. Those votes for minor Republicans are problematic. But accusing Bianco of dissipating the Republican vote is silly. One Republican on the ballot in the fall means a Democratic Governor. This is something many CA Republicans cannot seem to comprehend. I think Republicans need to come up with a strategy to exploit this system while it lasts. Recruit two good candidates for each statewide race. Keep them both in with the competitive races where the Democrats are fractured. Develop some way to effectively penalize any other Republicans who choose to run without endorsement. Divide California into two regions with an approximately equal number of active Republican voters. Direct one region to all vote for one candidate and the other region to all vote for the other. Promote this hard and thoroughly and also disavow any other Republicans in the race. Implore major GOP figures to butt out, to not endorse one or the other like Trump did in this race. Also, run adds through third parties to promote or attack Democrats in a manner designed to divide the Democratic vote as much as possible. I wonder if, assuming this was executed competently, this would produce superior results under these conditions. No guarantee, but certainly a better shot. |
The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton
-Lord Acton
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: Nope, I cannot comprehend that. My evaluation is fact-based (actual vote counts reported to date). Your speculating. Show me your math (hypothetical vote counts). How can you not comprehend that if the ballot is one Republican and one Democrat in November that the Democrat is guaranteed to win? Your own numbers and the actual results and trends in California elections demonstrate this. |
The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton
-Lord Acton
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You must be missing my point. If you evenly split the Republican vote, NEITHER will make it to the election in November. My suggestion to "show your math" is not rhetorical. It is a genuine request for you to use numbers to explain your point. I will explain my perspective using the (not yet final) numbers I have. Total (R) votes = 2,246,467 (includes all (R) votes for minor candidates) 50% split between Bianco and Hilton = 1,123,234 votes each This would result in final vote tallies and placements as follows: 1. Becerra = 1,470,970 2. Steyer = 1,140,475 3. Hilton = 1,123,234 4. Bianco = 1,123,234 Only the top two would advance to the November ballot - Becerra, Steyer. If I have a mistake or a misconception, please let me know. Surely, almost a week later, it would be good to have final vote tallies rather than the 60% I currently have. |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: You must be missing my point. If you evenly split the Republican vote, NEITHER will make it to the election in November. My suggestion to "show your math" is not rhetorical. It is a genuine request for you to use numbers to explain your point. I will explain my perspective using the (not yet final) numbers I have. Total (R) votes = 2,246,467 (includes all (R) votes for minor candidates) 50% split between Bianco and Hilton = 1,123,234 votes each This would result in final vote tallies and placements as follows: 1. Becerra = 1,470,970 2. Steyer = 1,140,475 3. Hilton = 1,123,234 4. Bianco = 1,123,234 Only the top two would advance to the November ballot - Becerra, Steyer. If I have a mistake or a misconception, please let me know. Surely, almost a week later, it would be good to have final vote tallies rather than the 60% I currently have. You are missing my point. It doesn't matter if a single Republican makes it to November. All that matter is if two Republicans will make it to November or not. That is what decides which party will send a man to the governor's mansion. So, if it is Hilton v. Steyer, Hilton v. Becerra, or Steyer v. Becerra, it doesn't really matter; in terms of partisan control of the office, the results are the same. If in the end the GOP vote was not sufficient to get two to the top then so be it, but throwing weight behind one or the other is stupid because it takes two to win, not one. One may as well be none. |
The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton
-Lord Acton
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I am not missing your point. It just isn't real. It does not jive with the votes. There are many possible scenarios for November's gubernatorial election. Having two Republicans on the ballot is not a credible one. Most probable outcome - Becerra (D) wins Unlikely outcome - Hilton (R) wins There are a few ways Hilton could win. It might involve massive, increasing voter dissatisfaction with the current administration and California's single party government. It might be growing dissatifaction from the massive corruption within the State. It might involve disenfranchised people actually getting out and voting (turn out is always low). It might be November's election turn out is different than the turn out for the Primary (vote distribution). It might be all of the above. If the "two Republicans on the November ballot" argument is just a hypothetical point of discussion and your real point is that the Republicans don't really have a path to winning in November, I do agree with that. Republicans are outnumbered approximately 2:1 in California. Too many (R)'s have left the State. We are condemned to single party government. Woe be unto us! |
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Originally Posted By operatorerror: So is Hilton going to make it to November or is Styer going to bump him? Still counting ballots and we all know how that goes. Pretty sure everyone is getting fucked with a cactus on this one |
Watching the kids shoot Pieeater's 1919 was great. Nothing warms the heart more than seeing a little kid kneeling in a pile of brass and links.-Pthfndr after the Nov 13th NorCal shoot
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Originally Posted By -Blue-: Pretty sure everyone is getting fucked with a cactus on this one Originally Posted By -Blue-: Originally Posted By operatorerror: So is Hilton going to make it to November or is Styer going to bump him? Still counting ballots and we all know how that goes. Pretty sure everyone is getting fucked with a cactus on this one How and why did ANYONE in Congress vote against the SAVE Act? To me, a NO vote on the SAVE Act is an admission of guilt of fraud. An argument made was that SAVE disenfranchised voters. Well, nothing disenfranchises voters quite as badly as fraud. Almost as corrosive is the perception of fraud. |
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Originally Posted By bigstick61: The logic is that the only way a Republican can be Governor is if the top two candidates are Republicans. If it is a Republican and a Democrat, it is a guaranteed win for the Democrat. So Hilton will not be Governor; it will be whichever Democrat is on top, which is probably going to be Becerra. So when Hilton and Bianco were both on the top of the polls, this was perfect, and it made the Democrats genuinely panic because unlike the average California Republican, apparently, they very well understood this fact. Had Trump not endorsed Hilton, to odds of this continuing were not a sure thing, but much higher than in the event he endorsed someone, and the results were predictable. Where dilution is a problem is if there are more than two major Republican candidates. But that was not the case here. The logical thing was to vote for Bianco once he fell behind to help boost him back up. If for some reason it meant both did not make the top two, then it is no different than if only one of them made it. Either way a Democrat wins. But if you can boost both into the top two, then a Republican is guaranteed to win and this would have had important down-ballot impacts in the general election. What I don't understand is emphasizing the lead candidate and switching one's vote to him under the conditions under which California primaries are held. Literally makes zero sense. This was the perfect scenario for electing a Republican and it specifically required splitting the Republican vote as evenly as possible between those two candidates. You have not answered. What is the logic to that? So cool, Hilton got on top. Now he is all set up to lose in November. Congrats! No, even assuming a D v R race is a D win in the general, having a viable R at the top energizes the R vote which can help with other races. Also why it would be good to have Pratt in the general even if he can't win. |
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Originally Posted By bigstick61: You are missing my point. It doesn't matter if a single Republican makes it to November. All that matter is if two Republicans will make it to November or not. That is what decides which party will send a man to the governor's mansion. So, if it is Hilton v. Steyer, Hilton v. Becerra, or Steyer v. Becerra, it doesn't really matter; in terms of partisan control of the office, the results are the same. If in the end the GOP vote was not sufficient to get two to the top then so be it, but throwing weight behind one or the other is stupid because it takes two to win, not one. One may as well be none. If there is an R in the general there's still some chance. But also it helps energize the vote which helps with other races. As of June 8, the combined vote for Hilton and Bianco is 2,756,840. Split in two that's 1,378420. Steyer, the lower D, is at 1,750,456. |
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Originally Posted By bigstick61: Hilton has no chance in the current climate with California's current demographics. Trump's endorsement doesn't help. Literally the only chance he ever had to be Governor is for him and Bianco to be top 2. Not happening now, so he will not be Governor. If the dynamic had not been impacted by Trump's endorsement and the Democratic vote had remained fractured, it is very possible that the top two would be Republicans. But once Trump tipped the scales (reinforced by California Republicans who don't understand how our elections work) and Democrats consolidated around Becerra and Steyer, the chance of this diminished. Trump shouldn't have endorsed, but the key factor was the Dems removing Eric Swalwell from office. That's at least one gift right there. But that allowed Dems to consolidate behind two top candidates and the risk becomes R getting locked out altogether. Keeping someone in the running even with little chance of winning still matters. It bumps up the R vote which can help with other races, and there is still some chance of the R pulling out a victory. |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: I got another update to the voting tallies. Nothing has changed in terms of the evaluation I posted above - votes for Bianco and the other (R) candidates dissipated the votes for a Republican candidate. So far, that's okay, as at least one (R) is likely to appear on the ballot this fall. I'm hedging here because only 60% of votes have been reported. This part of it is down right goofy. There were 61 candidates on the ballot, including one independant listed as "Living for God and Country Demott". 80,759 votes went to Republicans other than Hilton and Bianco, siphoning votes away from the two top runners. As of 6/8 I see that other Rs took 97,687 votes but at this point if all R votes were shared by Hilton and Bianco they would still fall short of Steyer (by more than 300k). Also there are even more Ds in the crowded field. |
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The vote tallies now include 83% of the votes cast. Becerra has only a 3% lead over Hilton (but that isn't the story). If the voter turnout in November is similar to the primary, both in number and affiliation, Hilton needs about a about 1.1M more cross-over votes than he got in the primary. If the number of voters goes up, he needs proportionately more cross-overs. So, roughly 1-1.5M more cross-over votes. That's 13% of the voters! |
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Originally Posted By DonS: To keep at least one in the running. The time when two Rs could be the top two is passed. They gutted Fang Fang's boy to narrow the field and it worked. Originally Posted By DonS: Originally Posted By bigstick61: Why? I'm trying to understand the logic here. To keep at least one in the running. The time when two Rs could be the top two is passed. They gutted Fang Fang's boy to narrow the field and it worked. Keeping one doesn't matter at all. A Democrat will win. |
The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton
-Lord Acton
|
Originally Posted By bigstick61: Keeping one doesn't matter at all. A Democrat will win. Keeping one improves R voting in the general and will help other candidates. Also there is some chance of things happening that could flip the outcome. Getting both into the general wasn't going to happen after Swalwell was forced out. |
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Originally Posted By DonS: Keeping one improves R voting in the general and will help other candidates. Also there is some chance of things happening that could flip the outcome. Getting both into the general wasn't going to happen after Swalwell was forced out. Still amazing how many votes that shitbag got |
Watching the kids shoot Pieeater's 1919 was great. Nothing warms the heart more than seeing a little kid kneeling in a pile of brass and links.-Pthfndr after the Nov 13th NorCal shoot