Posted: 3/1/2011 5:09:19 PM EDT
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Hi All,
It's been a while since I've been on this site. Thanks in advance for reading this. I keep hearing that interpretation of OLL laws has changed, such that it is now considered legal to have an OLL with Evil Features equipped with a Bullet Button, and more specifically the Bullet Button affects the classification of the magazine, such that the magazine, though detached, is not considered 'detachable without a tool'. My question is, does this mean that you can now detach the 10 round magazine to reload it, if properly equipped with a Bullet Button, but equipped with evil features? Try as I might, I can find no legal documentation from the DOJ or other any other government agency to answer this question succinctly. Even the letter written by the Sacramento PD here http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf only says the evil features and bullet button combo are legal, but they never state it is legal to actually detach the magazine. Thanks! |
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Quoted:
Hi All, It's been a while since I've been on this site. Thanks in advance for reading this. I keep hearing that interpretation of OLL laws has changed, such that it is now considered legal to have an OLL with Evil Features equipped with a Bullet Button, and more specifically the Bullet Button affects the classification of the magazine, such that the magazine, though detached, is not considered 'detachable without a tool'. My question is, does this mean that you can now detach the 10 round magazine to reload it, if properly equipped with a Bullet Button, but equipped with evil features? Try as I might, I can find no legal documentation from the DOJ or other any other government agency to answer this question succinctly. Even the letter written by the Sacramento PD here http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf only says the evil features and bullet button combo are legal, but they never state it is legal to actually detach the magazine. Thanks! I don't think the law has changed for oll's. Those are pre-ban and needed to be owned before the ban, then registered. The button stuff, Hopefully some one else knows the legalities. |
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Quoted:
Hi All, It's been a while since I've been on this site. Thanks in advance for reading this. I keep hearing that interpretation of OLL laws has changed, such that it is now considered legal to have an OLL with Evil Features equipped with a Bullet Button, and more specifically the Bullet Button affects the classification of the magazine, such that the magazine, though detached, is not considered 'detachable without a tool'. My question is, does this mean that you can now detach the 10 round magazine to reload it, if properly equipped with a Bullet Button, but equipped with evil features? Try as I might, I can find no legal documentation from the DOJ or other any other government agency to answer this question succinctly. Even the letter written by the Sacramento PD here http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf only says the evil features and bullet button combo are legal, but they never state it is legal to actually detach the magazine. Thanks! If I understand your question then yes you can detach the mag to reload it. Back in the day we had the prince 50 lock (if I remember correctly) which you had to pop the take downpin to load the mag. With the implementation of the BB you can now detach the Mag use a bullet, stick, .22 case, ect to detach the mag to load it. Hope that helps |
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From what I remember, it is not considered a 'detachable' magazine, because it needs a tool to remove it. So, yes, you can have all of the 'evil' features, flash hider, pistol grip, forward grip, collapsible stock, even a grenade/flare launcher, as long as you have a bullet button. The prince50 button was a regular button with a set screw tapped in, so if you unscrewed it, you no longer needed a tool to remove the magazine. With BB, you always need a tool. I haven't heard of any issues with law enforcement regarding the BB from anyone so far.
So to answer your question, yes, you can legally detach a magazine, because you are using a 'tool' to remove it. BTW, I wouldn't rely on any gov't agency to give you a straight answer. Believe it or not, this web site has tons of info on laws all around, plus links to DOJ & ATF legal stuff. |
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Edit: Somehow missed archavez's response, so the below is just a repeat.
OLL is any lower not specifically listed on the CA Forbidden list. So post ban would be closer to the truth, but not exact since the ban hasn't actually gone away. The list is still in effect, it is just closed to new additions. You can configure an OLL rifle in one of two ways: 1. Non evil features build. Meaning no forward pistol grip (VFG), pistol grip (replace with Monster Man or the like), thumbhole stock, folding or telescoping stock, flash suppressor, or grenade/flare launcher. With this build you can have a detachable mag. 2. Evil Build. This requires a fixed 10 rnd. mag using a bullet button, prince50, or radlock (personal fav.) or other mag fixing device that requires tool to remove mag. This allows you to use a pistol grip, vfg, etc. In both cases the rifles barrel must be 16" or greater in length, though a 14.5 with pinned or welded comp of 1.5" or more is okay if I am not mistaken. Also the overall length must be greater than 30" So the answer to your actual question is that with a bullet button type device installed you can indeed remove the mag to reload. As an aside if you are looking for a bullet button type device I know that Riflegear has a good selection, as well as some good 20 and 30 rnd mags modified to only hold ten (I get feeding problems with alot of the 10rnd bodies). They also have great customer service, and if I am not mistaken have the added benefit of being a site sponsor. Check out their sub forum here: Riflegear |
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Quoted:
I keep hearing that interpretation of OLL laws has changed, such that it is now considered legal to have an OLL with Evil Features equipped with a Bullet Button, and more specifically the Bullet Button affects the classification of the magazine, such that the magazine, though detached, is not considered 'detachable without a tool'. My question is, does this mean that you can now detach the 10 round magazine to reload it, if properly equipped with a Bullet Button, but equipped with evil features? Try as I might, I can find no legal documentation from the DOJ or other any other government agency to answer this question succinctly. Even the letter written by the Sacramento PD here http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf only says the evil features and bullet button combo are legal, but they never state it is legal to actually detach the magazine. ! Nothing has changed. The BulletButton maglock was specifically designed for 100% compliance at all times. If there were even one microsecond where the gun crossed thru an illegal AW transition it would be useless. However, the BulletButton legally allows mag changes of 10rd mags so it is far more useful than the old Prince50 screw-down non-latching maglock - the latter of which does not allow legal removal of the mag without disassembly of the gun, etc. - and makes cleaning/service/ unjamming difficult. A BulletButton maglock allows removal of the 10rd mag for reloading, service, cleaning/cleaning of the gun. It renders a magazine 'nondetachable' per law (CA regulatory code) The BB creates a 100% legal semiauto centerfire rifle because:
Feel free to change/reload your 10rd mags at the range or wherever you're legally shooting. We still do recommend transporting BB maglock'd OLL rifles with a 10rd magazine installed (and unloaded, perhaps along with a chamber flag to indicate emptiness) just to minimize any drama with LEOs that may not have all the above details, just possibly saves some extra explanation. Bill WIese/CGF San Jose CA |