Posted: 6/23/2016 10:33:51 AM EDT
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My wife is taking her CWP exam tonight and brought up a question last night that I didn't have a good answer for her. After reading the lovely SC Use Of Deadly Force laws I still don't. Anyone have a good answer for her question?
Question: At what point is she allowed to pull her firearm and/or use it if someone is attempting to rob or snatch her purse away? Does the Castle Doctrine extend to her purse as property just like someone trying to break into your vehicle. My understanding is you are authorize deadly force to stop a vehicle break in regardless if you are in the vehicle or outside. Thanks |
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I have to assume that the gun is not in the purse.
A lot happens in split seconds. Is he armed? Is he threatening her or just taking the purse? Does presenting the gun make the bad guy drop the purse and run, or keep pulling? Is she being video'd? Any one answer doesn't work every time, but it always starts and concludes before the popo arrive This is easily a "jury of 12/carried by 6" type issue? Several others are more well versed in the law and may offer a better answer - Ponti always seems knowledgeable and of course schnee is a lawyer, plus our mods are quite good sources as well. |
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She is allowed to use it whenever she pleases. But if she uses deadly force when not facing imminent death or great bodily injury, don't be surprised if you have your lives ruined by an antigun zealot DA.
Add this to the confusion: If she purse carries, and some mugger is taking her purse, he will be armed if he gets it. Let 'em work, let 'em live? But I aint no slick, fancy suit wearin, fast talkin lawyer feller, like whats up in the city. *Paging Schneecat to the white courtesy phone.* |
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Quoted:
My wife is taking her CWP exam tonight and brought up a question last night that I didn't have a good answer for her. After reading the lovely SC Use Of Deadly Force laws I still don't. Anyone have a good answer for her question? Question: At what point is she allowed to pull her firearm and/or use it if someone is attempting to rob or snatch her purse away? Does the Castle Doctrine extend to her purse as property just like someone trying to break into your vehicle. My understanding is you are authorize deadly force to stop a vehicle break in regardless if you are in the vehicle or outside. Thanks No, only allowed to use deadly force when she can claim threat of force against her or another person (very much a fact based question of circumstances). Can't use deadly force to protect just property in SC. Now, someone trying to take her purse from her directly? - Open fire. |
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Quoted:
She is allowed to use it whenever she pleases. But if she uses deadly force when not facing imminent death or great bodily injury, don't be surprised if you have your lives ruined by an antigun zealot DA. Add this to the confusion: If she purse carries, and some mugger is taking her purse, he will be armed if he gets it. Let 'em work, let 'em live? But I aint no slick, fancy suit wearin, fast talkin lawyer feller, like whats up in the city. *Paging Schneecat to the white courtesy phone.* Sorry, I guess I'm too slow to beat the request tonight, lol. |
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No, only allowed to use deadly force when she can claim threat of force against her or another person (very much a fact based question of circumstances). Can't use deadly force to protect just property in SC. Now, someone trying to take her purse from her directly? - Open fire. Quoted:
Quoted:
My wife is taking her CWP exam tonight and brought up a question last night that I didn't have a good answer for her. After reading the lovely SC Use Of Deadly Force laws I still don't. Anyone have a good answer for her question? Question: At what point is she allowed to pull her firearm and/or use it if someone is attempting to rob or snatch her purse away? Does the Castle Doctrine extend to her purse as property just like someone trying to break into your vehicle. My understanding is you are authorize deadly force to stop a vehicle break in regardless if you are in the vehicle or outside. Thanks No, only allowed to use deadly force when she can claim threat of force against her or another person (very much a fact based question of circumstances). Can't use deadly force to protect just property in SC. Now, someone trying to take her purse from her directly? - Open fire. Not being difficult, but I cant see the difference in the example you posted above. To me, both seem like "protecting property" at that point unless the bad guy is physically harming her. ETA: say a guy walks up from behind, grabs her purse and tries to run away with it. At that point he's just "robbing her of her property" without the intent of harming her. Whereas if he starts beating on her right off the bat to get the bag away from her, different story. |
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Anybody remember the recent case in Camden where the homeowner shot the guy stealing from his truck?
To the best of my recollection, the robber was not threatening the owner, but still got deaded. The homeowner did not get charged, but the event DID happen on his premises which is a primary difference in what you suggested. There is a gray line between the Castle Doctrine and fight or flight in public. Perceived threat level plays a role, and your actions may or may not be justifiable on hindsight. But, what will a jury think of your split second decision - ie: what would a reasonable person be expected to do if faced with that situation. If I were on the jury, you would likely walk, but you can't bet on freedom lovers to be the ones to choose the verdict behind the closed court house doors. Tough case. |
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Quoted:
My wife is taking her CWP exam tonight and brought up a question last night that I didn't have a good answer for her. After reading the lovely SC Use Of Deadly Force laws I still don't. Anyone have a good answer for her question? Question: At what point is she allowed to pull her firearm and/or use it if someone is attempting to rob or snatch her purse away? Does the Castle Doctrine extend to her purse as property just like someone trying to break into your vehicle. My understanding is you are authorize deadly force to stop a vehicle break in regardless if you are in the vehicle or outside. Thanks Quoted:
My wife is taking her CWP exam tonight and brought up a question last night that I didn't have a good answer for her. After reading the lovely SC Use Of Deadly Force laws I still don't. Anyone have a good answer for her question? Question: At what point is she allowed to pull her firearm and/or use it if someone is attempting to rob or snatch her purse away? Does the Castle Doctrine extend to her purse as property just like someone trying to break into your vehicle. My understanding is you are authorize deadly force to stop a vehicle break in regardless if you are in the vehicle or outside. Thanks Now, someone trying to take her purse from her directly? - Open fire. That is what she really is wondering about. Someone trying to take the purse off her body. And she 50/50 maybe be carrying in the purse depending on situation especially. Is it because the bag is attached to her at the time and could be perceived and she is being assaulted through it? I remember that case about the guys shooting him for trying to rob it truck. http://www.wistv.com/story/14046485/when-is-the-use-of-deadly-force-justified I wondered about that since you can't use deadly force to protect property. I suppose if the guy turned around and what ever he had in his hands using to break into the truck I would consider the threat pointed my direction at that point. |
| I really want to give a complete answer to all of the above questions, but unfortunately there are too many factual possibilities and the courts, police and prosecutors deal with every case differently. One of my best friends is probably the top attorney in the State for castle doctrine issues and very often he isn't sure what the correct answer will be. |
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I really want to give a complete answer to all of the above questions, but unfortunately there are too many factual possibilities and the courts, police and prosecutors deal with every case differently. One of my best friends is probably the top attorney in the State for castle doctrine issues and very often he isn't sure what the correct answer will be. Unfortunately, this sums it up best. No two cases are likely to turn out the same, we just hope to never be in the situation and have to find out. |
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He's not showing a weapon and is not beating on you - give him the purse - you may probably walk but your life will be hell from the lawsuit bought by his family, other harassment. I guess this is where I was thinking things could get sticky. If dude doesn't have a weapon and isn't harming the woman, just give him the purse and chalk it up to a loss(would be a little harder to do if said woman had a firearm in the bag, because then bad guy has a free weapon). If things turn violent, the situation drastically changes and she would be more than justified to use force. |
