Posted: 3/29/2005 9:08:11 PM EDT
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It's available here in Word format. Defense Walk Wisconsin If someone could save it as an Adobe Acrobat file, and maybe as HTML and email it to me that would be great. Please distribute it far and wide. [email protected] Now in PDF!! https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/andrijasevic/Defense%20Walk/Defense_Walk_Wisconsin.pdf?uniq=-wtgfef |
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Emailed the html file to you and put it on my clubs web site Lone Oak Gun Club |
Good news - I have gotten dozens of responses from people who want to come to the rally and carry. I have gotten responses from several people who will come in from Minnesota, and some who will come in from Illinois (so long as we help them when their time comes  )I have gotten a few positive responses back from the big WI gun groups, and am waiting to hear from the others, so the ball should get rolling with them soon. Looking good, keep spreading the good word. 
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This is from an artical posted in GD, Bucher's comments almost make me think maybe we shoudl try and get him involved in this...... |
Holy shiznit! Bucher is such a press hound I thought for SURE he would be a foaming liberal on the gun issue. I can't believe he said that on the record.....he is a very high profile guy. WOW! |
He couldn't participate, it would be way too politically risky for him. However, I would say Waukesha County would be a great place for a defense walk! |
You think that would be politicly risky, hows about this. I trhink yer right, waukesha might be the best place to hold a defense walk. linky
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I have said multiple times that incrementalism is the way to approach this. It sounds like you'd be very hard pressed to get charged in Waukesha county since the DA openly supports CCW. My suggestion is to go back to our original plan of starting in a friendly area, most likely Waukesha, and eventually move into Madison. |
Yup, loks like it is the right place to do the first one, Waukesha I mean. |
This is what I got back from WRPA attorneys... "These folks have done their homework pretty well. However, they are naïve and appear to be presupposing that because the law appears to be on their side, that government types who disagree will not act against them. This is a pure power issue which they must not discount. If I were to participate with them, as I am in sympathy with them, I would walk unarmed. A court case which they do not cite is one from the court of appeals from Milwaukee. In that case, a woman openly sitting on her porch with her gun in her lap in plain view was charged and convicted by a jury of CCW (they felt bad, but... The DA said we had to do this). This was upheld by the court of Appeals, Judge Schudson. Yes, Hamden came later, but the arrogance of the case is instructive. In no way was any of this case intellectually honest or a fair reading of the law. They did this because they could. All in Milwaukee knew they were of the same mind. They blame GUNS for all their problems there. This attitude prevails in Madison. To act as though it does not is very risky, unless your goal is to be arrested so you can get standing to challenge the statute as unconstitutional. Do you wish to be arrested so you can get your day in many courts in succession? Will you win? Even if you do, and your chances do seem pretty good, who will pay for this? These questions had better be answered before putting your head in the noose. If it was so clear and the WI Supreme Court WANTED to say so, they could have, should have, declared CCW unconstitutional in Hamden. Conservative justices do not make law and liberal justices hate guns, so the court did not do what the liberal judges would have done if Hamden was a gay marriage case. They punted to the legislature, as they should have done. The legislature can't get it done just yet. What if, by the time your case gets to the WI Supreme Court, Gov. Jim Doyle (gun hater) has appointed two more commie-lib justices. Seems likely the Supreme court blinks again, at least. Then you are a convicted criminal and perhaps your gun rights are gone. If I am a UW student, full of piss and vinegar and with no assets, no spouse, no children or other dependents, no home, no mortgage, no professional licenses, or anything else I need to preserve in order to enjoy a quiet existence in my old age, I am much more brave about asserting my rights. Let them carry the guns. Support them by showing up and lend credence to the slogan that the benefit of concealed carry is that those who oppose you do not know who to take on first." |
Those fucks. They can't even site the case right. the woman in question was not sitting on her porch with a gun in plain view, the gun was in her purse. I know this case I've sited it before in arguments. The State Supreme Court cited that case in the fucking Hamdan decision for God sake, how the hell could the WRPA lawyers NOT get it right??And even had that been the case how the hell would you get away with charging CCW when a weapon is in the open(some times this can stick, but it's car related, not house related). I can't see how a court would allow that to go through. With ballsless lawyers like this representing the Pro- gun groups in this state it's no fucking wonder that we don't have CCW right now. |
Good work going on.
If I were a betting man I'd bet the antis are monitoring this forum.I can just visualize the backroom headcrunching that could be going on right now trying to scheme up charges.Allright I been in the woods too long but I feel strongly about this(CCW) issue and in my experience there are those in power who will do anything to stop or sabatoge a movement against thier agenda. Just a trial balloon here but I think it's time to take it up a level,,,I've got 50 bucks to ante up to help fund an LLC or ?You guys on top of this issue could use some insulation.It could also recieve any cash contributions or legal aid contributions.At least there would be an entity to arrange permits.Chillin' out, bulletcatchR ETA,I don't remember if there was a discussion about organizing,I'm 'ass'uming this isn't a SAFER sponsored demonstration.TNX |
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You worry to much guys. Nothing you see here is "top secret" remember it's only a proposal. |
Alright, I have a couple of issues that need to be addressed. 1) I think we should keep this on the DL, but I dont think we need to pull it from the forum yet. 2) Unfortunately, Senator Zien's office already got a copy, but I've heard no reply. I've put off the mailings until we figure some more things out. Word of mouth and email seems to be getting it aroung pretty good. 3) These WI gun groups (WRPA) are afraid of what could happen in Madison. I think that gun friendly DA in Waukesha is a great opportunity. I spoke to one of the guys who was active in Ohio defense walks and he said we should find a DA who wont charge us, and talk to the Chief of Police, Sheriff and KNOW ahead of time that they wont arrest us. We need to meet with these people and hear this from them - and then we need to take that to the WI gun groups (or, have someone from one of those groups meet with them.) 4) I only have one more month that I can do these things, and my time will be very limited. I have exams in May, am graduating, am getting married, and I am moving out of state to take a job. My intent was to get this preliminary work done, and then hopefully the WCCA or WRPA would take this and use it as part of a larger PPA strategy. That looks like it may or may not happen. So, within a month, either they will need to adopt this as part of their strategy, or someone else is going to have to take over my place, and coordinate things between them, call DAs, police depts, etc. If you want to do this, or know someone who wants to - let me know. Really, I'll be gone or busy from early May through mid June. Before then I can do this, after that I can consult, and hopefully come back to march, but I cant run things. |
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www.citybeat.com/2005-04-06/cover.shtml Great article on Ohio CCW |
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It's all good Adrain.I honestly don't know what can realistically be done before you leave but believe me it's good to see 'youth' with your motivation.Perhaps the time would be best spent trying to organize and secure new leadership. I certainly have time to help organize but can't volunteer to do any more due to health constraints.I also have the gut feeling this(PPA) will be going on for a few more years so it pays to organize. Back on the subject of defense walk my opinion is the opposite.Pick the (legal)place most likely to get arrested,have plenty of witnesses and tape and let the litigators loose.I'm not talking about court debates I'm talking civil rights slap suits to everyone involved in the arrest and go from there.We could recruit the best attorneys to work on a percentage.Just my two cents but a PR event is just more of what we have gotten so far. bulletcatchR |
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BulletCatchR, "Perhaps the time would be best spent trying to organize and secure new leadership." If indeed Adrian is not going to be available, I believe you have hit the nail on the head. If he put the whole document together himself, then there is DEFINITELY a need for new leadership, because there is no way a longer term effort can be effectively managed "off-site". On the other hand, if the document was a collaborative effort, then there is already talent at hand - maybe not a single leader, but group leadership is a possibility. You all have a seed - now you need to make it germinate. I don't live in WI, so I don't know the lay of the land, but IMHO, an open carry walk could do more harm than good, depending. BB62 |