Posted: 1/2/2013 7:16:33 PM EDT
| After years of only shooting commercial ammo, I'm going to get into reloading. I plan to shoot a lot of 3-gun this year and with the cost of commercial ammo, now seems as good of a time as any to start. But damn its going to be expensive to get up and running. |
| Don't know your location, but if in the STL area Jay Hinges Shooting Range is having a free class on reloading metallic cartridges on the 15th of this month. Check their website here for information. |
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Don't know your location, but if in the STL area Jay Hinges Shooting Range is having a free class on reloading metallic cartridges on the 15th of this month. Check their website here for information. I'm in KC unfortunately. |
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Yep, Lee turret owner here as well. I hope to pick up a Classic Cast Turret at some point, that fourth station is great for using FCD's on handgun ammo.
Another great thing to check out is casting your own bullets out of wheel weight or hardball alloy. Brings the cost of shooting down significantly. I'll be casting my own 9mm after a few more items are picked up, just need a propane burner (30% off @ Cabela's this weekend) and an ingot mold. |
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I traded my turret press for a single stage. Bad trade. 
If anyone from the KC area needs help I'm available. I don't claim to be an expert but I've been reloading for over 20 years. Well, shooting your own reloads for that long and not having the hands of an al-Qida bomb maker would pretty much make you an expert. 
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| Brent, if you are going to reload for 3 gun you may as well just nut up and get a progressive. I prefer dillon. a single stge will take you so much time, its almost not worth the effort (if your time is worth anything). A Dillon progressive will pay for itself the first year you reload for 3 gun. |
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Quoted: You forgot self cleaning.Quoted: Quoted: I'm just getting into it as well. Just picked up a Lee with turret for a $100. Guaranteed to load 40,000 rounds without breaking! Yep...You know I don't buy anything that won't go 40, 000 rounds without stoppages or failures!!!  |
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I started on a SDB 5 years and over 20K ago and now have 2. I wouldn't start on anything else. I only do pistol although in the past I did do Shot shell. Being in KC. Can't reload shot for what you can buy it for in Liberty. Rifle is a whole different puppy. I see lots of problems with reloaded rifle at 3 guns. More angles to get right and more steps. In addition, before the panic, there was not a ton of difference in price in .223 from commercial over reloads. Most of my buds have 25-28 cents a round in reloads and you could buy cheap Russian stuff for that and decent brass for about $300 per thousand.
I did a ton of research for about a year before buying my first press used off of Enos. I followed the majority of recommendations and bought two reloading manual's. Maybe because I had done so much research or had read 1000's of posts in reloading forums but the manuals were a joke for me. Kind of a see Dick and Jane run kind of deal. When I need reloading data I go to mfg. websites and the forums. I try to find 3 separate sources to verify any load that pushes the line a little. I don't reload for fun. I reload to shoot. If you think you will save money, dream on. You will save 1/2 and shoot 3X's as much for a net loss of cash. |
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If you think you will save money, dream on. You will save 1/2 and shoot 3X's as much for a net loss of cash. This! LOL... In theory at least... Me personally... I NEVER get to shoot... But I keep stacking ammo cause it's cheap. I got lucky though... I chipped in on purchasing the reloading gear... and my buddy gets stuck doing all the work. I drop off my Brass, Bullets, Primers, and Powder... A week later I pick up assembled cartridges. I got the better end of that stick! |
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If you think you will save money, dream on. You will save 1/2 and shoot 3X's as much for a net loss of cash. This! LOL... In theory at least... Me personally... I NEVER get to shoot... But I keep stacking ammo cause it's cheap. I got lucky though... I chipped in on purchasing the reloading gear... and my buddy gets stuck doing all the work. I drop off my Brass, Bullets, Primers, and Powder... A week later I pick up assembled cartridges. I got the better end of that stick! Depends. If he enjoys doing it you both came out ok. If anyone in the East Side wants to do the same, I may be up for it. 
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For you guys that that started out on something... what do you wish you would have started out with. Would you go straight for a 1050? Or would you still have started / stuck with what you did? I started on an RCBS JR2 which I traded for the Lee Turret I have now. At some point I do plan on getting a progressive, either an Ammomaster, 1000 Pro or a 650. Those can be more fiddly but once they are set they tend to work very very well no matter which brand you go with. |
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Brent, if you are going to reload for 3 gun you may as well just nut up and get a progressive. I prefer dillon. a single stge will take you so much time, its almost not worth the effort (if your time is worth anything). A Dillon progressive will pay for itself the first year you reload for 3 gun. Thanks for the information Chad. I've been talking to a few other people that are echoing you as well. |
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For you guys that that started out on something... what do you wish you would have started out with. Would you go straight for a 1050? Or would you still have started / stuck with what you did? i started on a Lee single and quickly (say a month and 100 rounds) moved to a Hornady LnL AP....i like the AP but now kinda wishing i went with the 1050 instead (even with the large cost difference). only reason i say that is becouse the 1050 can remove the crimp on the mil brass. i tend to run batches of 5k-8k rounds at once. i started loading when after the 08 elections mainly becouse i couldn't find ammo to shoot. anyone that wants to have someone show them how to do it or see the hornady LnL (or single stage) just IM me and we can work out a time when you can come over to try it. |
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Brent, if you are going to reload for 3 gun you may as well just nut up and get a progressive. I prefer dillon. a single stge will take you so much time, its almost not worth the effort (if your time is worth anything). A Dillon progressive will pay for itself the first year you reload for 3 gun. Thanks for the information Chad. I've been talking to a few other people that are echoing you as well. if you are looking at the 650 i would suggest looking the Hornday LnL also. if you are thinking 1050 then,,, suck it up and pay it down. just remeber that you will probably want a tool head for each caliber you load on a dillon. |
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If you think you will save money, dream on. You will save 1/2 and shoot 3X's as much for a net loss of cash. This! LOL... In theory at least... Me personally... I NEVER get to shoot... But I keep stacking ammo cause it's cheap. I got lucky though... I chipped in on purchasing the reloading gear... and my buddy gets stuck doing all the work. I drop off my Brass, Bullets, Primers, and Powder... A week later I pick up assembled cartridges. I got the better end of that stick! Depends. If he enjoys doing it you both came out ok. If anyone in the East Side wants to do the same, I may be up for it. Hmm, I enjoy it, but I usually am lacking in the funds department to keep it stocked.. |
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For you guys that that started out on something... what do you wish you would have started out with. Would you go straight for a 1050? Or would you still have started / stuck with what you did? I started on a Lee Single Stage Anniversary set. I wish I would have had the turret, but the single stage is still on my bench and I use it ALL of the time. I load .308s there. I still use the rather junkie plastic powder measures. They actually work great. Then I added a Lee Progressive. It worked "OK" for what it was. (I had well over 10k through it. 9s and 45s) I never could get the primer feed to work. But it helped me move to the Dillon 650XL. The Dillon is sweet. Others use Hornady LNL and have great success. The Dillon will load it ALL. 9s, .45s and .223s. I could load .308s on it, but I am too anal. The single stage is great for decapping brass with the universal die before tossing them in the tumbler or building test loads. I wash a lot of my brass, so I like to have the primers out. No matter if you decide to go right to a progressive or not, you will still want a single stage type press.
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I have had a LEE single stage for years. It's great for "general purpose" loading. IE: hunting loads and occasional target ammo I decided to get a progressive after getting into USPSA. Ignoring the advice of ABN-RGR I bought a LEE Pro 1000. I finally have all the kinks worked out of it after about 1500 rounds. I can crank out 200 .40 cal in less than an hour feeding brass & bullets by hand. Hindsight being what it is............I would go Dilllon if I had it to do over again but the Lee is manageable for the volume that I'm loading now. |
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I started on a Lyman Turret. If I had the time to reload nowadays, I'd probably get an LnL. I wouldn't be afraid at all to start out with a progressive although I might would still use a handheld primer tool.
I saw them somewhere on sale in the 400 price range right before Christmas and almost pulled the trigger on it. (On sale at Brownell's for 399 right now but requires backorder.) There was a Hornady bashing thread in GD awhile back but I can't remember exactly what it was about or if it got resolved. Anyone else know about that? |
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Auto advance presses are a bad idea for new reloaders, with one exception, folks that work on complicated mechanisms such as packaging lines where several processes occur simultaneously.
There are lots of steps occurring at one time and when some step screws up, and it will, the press wants to advance anyway. That generally magnifies the problems and probably causes more than one step to get out of whack. Learn the basics on a single stage, LEE Classic Turret, or a manual advance 550 or RCBS Pro 2000, then move on to an auto advance machine after gaining experience. The Pro 2000 can be modified for auto advance now; it's a great press. Here's a secret about progressive reloading presses. The processing speed is limited by handling of components (cases and bullets) if case or bullet feeders are not installed. |
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I started on a Lyman Turret. If I had the time to reload nowadays, I'd probably get an LnL. I wouldn't be afraid at all to start out with a progressive although I might would still use a handheld primer tool. I saw them somewhere on sale in the 400 price range right before Christmas and almost pulled the trigger on it. (On sale at Brownell's for 399 right now but requires backorder.) There was a Hornady bashing thread in GD awhile back but I can't remember exactly what it was about or if it got resolved. Anyone else know about that? Most of the complaints I see on the LnL have to do with quality control, it eating case retention springs ever 200-300 rnds, and not seating primers properly. Was really considering that one last year until all of that scared me off. Springs are $3.99 a piece, and if primers is such a hassle that kind of kills the beauty of a turret press. |
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I started on a Lyman Turret. If I had the time to reload nowadays, I'd probably get an LnL. I wouldn't be afraid at all to start out with a progressive although I might would still use a handheld primer tool. I saw them somewhere on sale in the 400 price range right before Christmas and almost pulled the trigger on it. (On sale at Brownell's for 399 right now but requires backorder.) There was a Hornady bashing thread in GD awhile back but I can't remember exactly what it was about or if it got resolved. Anyone else know about that? Most of the complaints I see on the LnL have to do with quality control, it eating case retention springs ever 200-300 rnds, and not seating primers properly. Was really considering that one last year until all of that scared me off. Springs are $3.99 a piece, and if primers is such a hassle that kind of kills the beauty of a turret press. i am still using the original case retention spring after 10k rounds or so. If I think i know what you are talking about with the quality control issues there are 2 that i know of: -bad batch (and a very large batch at that) of the LnL bushings. they screw out and if you call hornady they will replace them without any cost to you (i know, mine was affected) -play in dies. the dies can slip a little in the LnL bushings but hornady makes a shim kit for it and if you call they will send it to you free. i heard someone say they are including it in the new presses as for priming, they only issue i have with priming is on5.56 brass if the pockets are tight (which most are). the brass will prime but the primers sit high. i load everything into stripper clips when i am done so i just make sure i check to see if the primers are set right and if not fix it will a rcbs hand primer to push the primers in the rest of the way. usually about 15-20 per 400 round batch. |
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I haven't reloaded in 20 years, but I just ordered a Lee Load Master along with a Forster Classic Trimmer. Gonna be hard for me to trust the automated powder measure after doing so many hand loads with a RCBS scale. I load on an old Loadmaster occasionally, for nostalgia really. With Hornady AP and XL650 in house there's no need for the Lee Pro1000 or Loadmaster. I'll use either Lee press, without primer feed. Lee progressive primer feed will steal your eyes from powder checks inside each case. It's not a matter of if, but when you will have a squib or double charge. I agree with AeroE, auto advance progressives aren't a good idea for beginners unless you are capable of monitoring multiple functions at once. The guys who start slow with auto progressive by loading one within the index at a time do alright. Initially, progressive learning curve is steep. btw, I gave a Lee 4 hole turret away last year to a wounded Marine who's a regular in reloading forum. It had a six digit round count and got him by until he could afford to replace with a T7. |
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I haven't reloaded in 20 years, but I just ordered a Lee Load Master along with a Forster Classic Trimmer. Gonna be hard for me to trust the automated powder measure after doing so many hand loads with a RCBS scale. I load on an old Loadmaster occasionally, for nostalgia really. With Hornady AP and XL650 in house there's no need for the Lee Pro1000 or Loadmaster. I'll use either Lee press, without primer feed. Lee progressive primer feed will steal your eyes from powder checks inside each case. It's not a matter of if, but when you will have a squib or double charge. I agree with AeroE, auto advance progressives aren't a good idea for beginners unless you are capable of monitoring multiple functions at once. The guys who start slow with auto progressive by loading one within the index at a time do alright. Initially, progressive learning curve is steep. btw, I gave a Lee 4 hole turret away last year to a wounded Marine who's a regular in reloading forum. It had a six digit round count and got him by until he could afford to replace with a T7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhUOE8HvgX4 Nice press, but it's a bit bigger than I'd want given the space I have. My shells will have to go through the press twice, even with the progressive. Need to decap them first, then check for sizing, then trim/deburr if need be, and clean the primer pocket. Wash, then it's finally time for reloading. I'm confident that I have enough attention to detail to be able to run a progressive press, although I admit, I really like the charge verification tool used in the above linked video. |
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I haven't reloaded in 20 years, but I just ordered a Lee Load Master along with a Forster Classic Trimmer. Gonna be hard for me to trust the automated powder measure after doing so many hand loads with a RCBS scale. I load on an old Loadmaster occasionally, for nostalgia really. With Hornady AP and XL650 in house there's no need for the Lee Pro1000 or Loadmaster. I'll use either Lee press, without primer feed. Lee progressive primer feed will steal your eyes from powder checks inside each case. It's not a matter of if, but when you will have a squib or double charge. I agree with AeroE, auto advance progressives aren't a good idea for beginners unless you are capable of monitoring multiple functions at once. The guys who start slow with auto progressive by loading one within the index at a time do alright. Initially, progressive learning curve is steep. btw, I gave a Lee 4 hole turret away last year to a wounded Marine who's a regular in reloading forum. It had a six digit round count and got him by until he could afford to replace with a T7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhUOE8HvgX4 Nice press, but it's a bit bigger than I'd want given the space I have. My shells will have to go through the press twice, even with the progressive. Need to decap them first, then check for sizing, then trim/deburr if need be, and clean the primer pocket. Wash, then it's finally time for reloading. I'm confident that I have enough attention to detail to be able to run a progressive press, although I admit, I really like the charge verification tool used in the above linked video. Spend some time in arfcom reloading forum. Not sure what your wanting to load. If .223 or any bottlenecked rifle almost all size in one pass, then load on 2nd pass. I size/trim using RL1200 in one pass, then finish prep work on RCBS prep center, anneal every third, then tumble. All progressives take up the same amount of bench space. I'm not married to any one make or model of press and still load using Lee hand press when I feel like it. All that's required of a press to load is that it hold dies. |
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I haven't reloaded in 20 years, but I just ordered a Lee Load Master along with a Forster Classic Trimmer. Gonna be hard for me to trust the automated powder measure after doing so many hand loads with a RCBS scale. I load on an old Loadmaster occasionally, for nostalgia really. With Hornady AP and XL650 in house there's no need for the Lee Pro1000 or Loadmaster. I'll use either Lee press, without primer feed. Lee progressive primer feed will steal your eyes from powder checks inside each case. It's not a matter of if, but when you will have a squib or double charge. I agree with AeroE, auto advance progressives aren't a good idea for beginners unless you are capable of monitoring multiple functions at once. The guys who start slow with auto progressive by loading one within the index at a time do alright. Initially, progressive learning curve is steep. btw, I gave a Lee 4 hole turret away last year to a wounded Marine who's a regular in reloading forum. It had a six digit round count and got him by until he could afford to replace with a T7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhUOE8HvgX4 Nice press, but it's a bit bigger than I'd want given the space I have. My shells will have to go through the press twice, even with the progressive. Need to decap them first, then check for sizing, then trim/deburr if need be, and clean the primer pocket. Wash, then it's finally time for reloading. I'm confident that I have enough attention to detail to be able to run a progressive press, although I admit, I really like the charge verification tool used in the above linked video. Spend some time in arfcom reloading forum. Not sure what your wanting to load. If .223 or any bottlenecked rifle almost all size in one pass, then load on 2nd pass. I size/trim using RL1200 in one pass, then finish prep work on RCBS prep center, anneal every third, then tumble. All progressives take up the same amount of bench space. I'm not married to any one make or model of press and still load using Lee hand press when I feel like it. All that's required of a press to load is that it hold dies. 8x57 Mauser |
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For you guys that that started out on something... what do you wish you would have started out with. Would you go straight for a 1050? Or would you still have started / stuck with what you did? I started on my dad's rock chucker when I was 10. When I went to college I bought a Lyman turrent for $25 at a yard sale. After 20 years of reloading I bought my first progressive last year. Progressives multiplies your productivity, but it also multiplies your problems. Get a single or a turrent to learn and then switch to a progressive if the need arises. Like another poster said, even with a progressive you're going to need a single stage on occassion anyway, so you might as well learn on one. |
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8x57 Mauser My first single stage was a Lee Breech Lock. Using Lee dies, then updating to match grade I was loading sub-moa. Using a Hornady Classic now, it loads the same quality Breech Lock did. Have loaded 750 meter, 75 grain Hornady hpbt for my son using Lee, RGB dies loaded in a Rockchucker. I seated by rotating brass in thirds as bullet was seated to minimize run out. You don't need to spend a lot to build quality. When you want to build quality in quantity is when reloading gets expensive. Check out RCBS Summit press. |
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I'm accumulating my funds for this as it will be my next "big" project. I'm trying to get the time to go to the loading class out at the local MO DNR range (mentioned earlier). I (and I think maybe a few others) have no issues learning on a single stage, but the way finances go in my house I need to get all the components at once; that means the single and the progressive and associated equipment (tumblers, dies, etc). So, I'm trying to figure out what I need now to learn, and what I will want later and get them all now. Anyone have a crystal ball?
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If you go to reloading forum and read through the tutorials and tacked threads you will find everything needed. After ditching the Loadmaster in closet and taking a break I "restarted" small with a $250.00 investment in press, dies and components to load .45acp. Most everyone, including myself at one time over thinks this.
For pistol my range reloading set-up includes Lee hand press, dies, hand primer, powder measure, load block, caliper and DS-750 digital pocket scale. This set-up is for load work up at range but will load with this set up while watching TV, five cases at a time just to have something to do. All in, including RCBS little dandy measure with needed charge rotors, under $200.00. Load data you can find on powder company websites. Dillon XL650 set up to size, trim and load .223 cost well over a grand. Setup for .223, 9mm, 38 super comp and 45acp with dedicated tool heads and powder measures costs got close to 2k. Hornady AP, w/o case feeder set up to load .233, using Possum Hollow drill mounted trimmer with RCBS prep center for brass prep, cost was under $750.00. Retail component cost 75 grain hpbt bullets using bought, once fired brass to manufacture 1,000 cartridges, $342.00 w/o tax. Retail cost using your once fired brass to manufacture 1,000 cartridges, $277.02. Per 100, $27.00. Cost per cartridge, $0.27. 20 rounds Hornady Match 75 grain, $17.99, per cartridge cost, $0.89. You can figure the savings from here. Once again, I started by thinking small, one pound of powder, one hundred bullets, used brass I picked up and primers by the thousand. On payday I'd stop by the gun gettin shop and pick up components, load on Saturday, shoot on Sunday. Being a little older and somewhat better paid from back in the day I buy by the thousand sometimes to keep from breaking the bank. |
| I started with the lee breach lock press loading .223, 38/357 and 45acp, quickly moved to the lee load master and loved it. Finally broke down a few months ago and decide to invest some real money, got my c6 ffl and bought 4 dillon super 1050s, I have 2 ponsness warren auto drives, and one mr bullet bullet feeder. License got here dec 1st, presses got here yesterday, spent today building custom benches in the new workshop I built specifically for this little undertaking! I'm in deep now! But I had ordered a lot of materials just prior to the shooting so I'm pretty well stocked and will be selling some ammo in a few weeks! It's replacing what you use or sell at this point that's gonna be the trick! |
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Parents got me the Lee Classic Turret for Christmas. I spent another $88 on dies, cases, and trim stuff. I still need to spend another $100 on scale, powder measure, and prime system. AND I STILL NEED TO GET THE STUFF THAT MAKES A CARTRIDGE.
I just wish they had gotten me the kit. I can get the rest at Graffs locally. I'm driving to midway just for the hell of it to get some of it tomorrow. |
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I started with the lee breach lock press loading .223, 38/357 and 45acp, quickly moved to the lee load master and loved it. Finally broke down a few months ago and decide to invest some real money, got my c6 ffl and bought 4 dillon super 1050s, I have 2 ponsness warren auto drives, and one mr bullet bullet feeder. License got here dec 1st, presses got here yesterday, spent today building custom benches in the new workshop I built specifically for this little undertaking! I'm in deep now! But I had ordered a lot of materials just prior to the shooting so I'm pretty well stocked and will be selling some ammo in a few weeks! It's replacing what you use or sell at this point that's gonna be the trick! Class 6 is half of what you need. ITAR has to be paid before you sell ammunition. I know of several guys manufacturing commercially while looking over their shoulders for DDTC, which is a self funded government agency. Just be aware is all I'm saying. |
| Go with a Dillon 650 and never look back. I told my wife the other nite i needed to load a couple hundred rounds of 9mm went out in the garage and was back in getting ready for bed in 15 minutes. She was amazed I was done so quick. That includes the time it took me to take the cover off and back on and to throw a powder charge to check it on the scale. And not knocking the other brands but I have yet to run across anyone that I shoot with that has had squb loads or any other problems using a dillon. If I had another brand I would make sure and have a powder check station. My buddy at work has a Hornady LNL and from what he says he is a very meticulous loader but has squbs on a regular basis. I have loaded 6000+ in my Dillon in the 9 month's I have owned ti without a single falure of any kind. I think Cabela's offers reloading classes at least the one in KC does. |
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I started with the lee breach lock press loading .223, 38/357 and 45acp, quickly moved to the lee load master and loved it. Finally broke down a few months ago and decide to invest some real money, got my c6 ffl and bought 4 dillon super 1050s, I have 2 ponsness warren auto drives, and one mr bullet bullet feeder. License got here dec 1st, presses got here yesterday, spent today building custom benches in the new workshop I built specifically for this little undertaking! I'm in deep now! But I had ordered a lot of materials just prior to the shooting so I'm pretty well stocked and will be selling some ammo in a few weeks! It's replacing what you use or sell at this point that's gonna be the trick! Class 6 is half of what you need. ITAR has to be paid before you sell ammunition. I know of several guys manufacturing commercially while looking over their shoulders for DDTC, which is a self funded government agency. Just be aware is all I'm saying. I did my homework, already taken care of. |