Posted: 4/28/2006 9:47:31 AM EDT
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Need a quick opinion on an entry level rifle- I've already built an AR with help from Technik and a certain pirate, but I'm looking to upgrade (downgrade?) for the upcoming hunting season. I've already picked up a Yugo SKS potential for deer season, although its really just a plinker. What would the fine crew of Washingtonians suggest for an entry level deer rifle? Mosin M44? Springer 1903 .30-06? Savage, Charles Daly or CZ bolt action? Thanks for your input. |
| If I was looking for an inexpensive, entry level medium to big game rifle, I'd be looking at one of those Wal-Mart Savage bolt action/scope package specials. Probably in 7mm Rem mag, 30-06, or 300Win mag. Primarilly for deer, add 270Win and 308Win to the list. Those are pretty common calibers that offer versatility and for which ammunition is readily available and relatively inexpensive. |
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I'm no big hunter so take my opinion for whatever value you place on it. I suggest going to a fun show and just looking around for a decent used rifle. No sense buying something brand new until you know what you want. As reported in another thread there is a fun show this weekend in Lewis County. Any caliber above the minimum will likely be sufficient for deer. I kinda like .243 for how flat it shoots. The larger magnums might be nice to have though because you could use it for deer and elk if you decide to hunt elk. I picked up a .308 caliber sporterized 98k mauser a few years ago at a WAC show for $185. It isn't the most pretty rifle but would be fine for deer hunting. Here is a photo of it as it was purchased, before I added a Hogue stock and Timney trigger: 
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I concur with the Savage being a good choice for entry level type new gun. I would however suggest that you stay away from the 300 win mag unless you are a trophy hunter.(In whick case I think you are a douchebag). Way too much meat damage with that caliber. A lot of your success depends on how well you know your rifle and its ballistic capabilities. To this end I would suggest a 270, 308, 30-06 caliber. Not only is ammunition plentiful but unlike the 300 win mag you can shoot many rounds without feeling like a jackhammer has gotten after your shoulder. I dont know how much you know about precision shooting or even hunting for that matter but do yourself a favor and put at least 500 rounds down the pipe at varying distances to 300 yards before you go hunting. This instills confidence about handling the weapon as well as knowledge on trigger break and how wind affects the round. One last thing. I have never encountered a bench rest while hunting so do yourself a favor and practice firing offhand, kneeling and perhaps on a rest like a log. It totally changes the dynamic |
Boomer and Berzerker nailed it. Over here on the Dryside, you see alot of .308, 30-06, .243, and .270 I'm not a big fan of the .243, (and using 300WinMags...) but, for most large game the remaining three are excellent choices. The Savage rifles at WallyWorld are another good steer, but even better is get with a few ARFCommers in your area (Over on the coast, right?) and walk around at a fun show. |
| I'll toss in a vote of a Remington 700 in .30-06. You can find a round for just about anything you'd want to hunt in North America for the .30-06. And there are a bazillon Rem. 700s out there in .30-06. The new Savages with the Accu-Trigger are extremely nice too. |
A lot will depend on where you hunt. I personally like the 94 with a Williams peep. and anytime I'm in the timber. I use it. Now, that being said. I have in bolt guns .308, 30-06 and the one people around here dislikes 300Win. Of the three the 30-06 is hands down the best chose. Why? This round will put down anything you are likely to hunt here. There are more factory offerings in Ammo and if you reload ,more components as in bullet WT. and bullet construction than anything out there. Once you chose a rifle you can test different brands in your chosen Wt. until the cows come home to find the one that shoots best in yours. And most important as another member put it practice, in different positions. No kidding. Bench rest practice only breeds failure when the shot of a life time shows up and you only have 5 sec. to make the shot. Maybe even with your pants down!  Good luck. |
I got one with the laminated wood in .30-06 is a great single shot. |
Truer words were never spoken. I missed a truly great bull elk in Colorado two years ago because I couldn't shoot a left handed shot. Didn't even pull the trigger because I knew it was a lost cause. 
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Not to change the subject too much, but I have to comment on this:
I must be a douchebag then. Not so much because I use too much gun (even though I admit that the 26 game animals I took in November were done with a 375H&H), but because I hunt for hunting, not for meat. I buy my meat at WalMart. The economics of hunting for meat are fuzzy at best. Sure, the meat is a nice byproduct of hunting, but I'm there to kill stuff. As a matter of record, I ate ZERO of the 2500 or so sage rats I slayed in the summer of 2005, ZERO of the 1000 prairie dogs, and only ONE meals worth of the 26 game animals from November. Would this define douchebag? |
Perhaps, most people in this area look down on trophy hunters, we hunt for meat, careless about horns and shit. But hy, whatever floats your boat its your dime after all. |
I've got 1 with 3 barrels. 223, 357mag and 410. I forgot to mention you can get other caliber barrels for about $75 apiece |
Ya I got to get around to getting a barrel in .223 too. |
I have one too in 223. I put a 4-12 Simmons scope on it. With black hills 55gr reloads the dang thing shoots about 1/2 inch. The only thing is the triggers sucks but as I shoot it more it is getting better. |
That 45-70Govt barrel looks interesting. 
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I've been thinking the same thing for quite awhile now. I didn't really want the 410.......but it was only $35. Figured what the heck 
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Look for a good used rifle I picked up a minty older Mossberg 800A .308 for $200, if you think you may hunt elk as well I would go with 30-06 and up. Bens loan is a bad place for me they get some sweet rifles in my latest are a CZ 550 6.5x55 Swede and a Remy 700 classic 8mm. The Remy still needs a scope.  
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I hear you can shoot .45 long Colt in the .410 is this true? |
There are two different 410 barrels. One you can shoot 45LC/410 it was about$75 IIRC(I think it is rifled). The other 410(the one I got) is 410 only......but it's only $35. Those were the prices several years ago when I got mine. The guns are the same price, but I think the barrels have gone up to $85 or so. |
You heard it from me, and , Yes. |
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I have a Handi in 45-70 and just a little word of warning. Dont get the synthetic if you plan to use some of the hotter loads. Anything over 400 grains and 1500 fps is like gettin kicked by a mule. I even put 2 lbs of lead in the butt. now it just feels funky. The pmc 300 gr cowboy loads are hella fun plinkers though. Now I have to get reloading dies for it. the ammo is damn expensive but easy to reload |
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Thanks everybody for the input, I really, really like JAFO's idea on a 98k sporterized or finding a used Savage/Remy/Mossberg? bolt action in 308. I'll be back in town for the next funshow to pick one up, checked the EE- nothing avaliable in WA. Two Quick question: are the cartridge properties of 7.62x54 and .308 NATO similar? Can you shoot .308 NATO and .308 Winchester out of the same rifle? |
Cant go wrong with a rebarreled mauser either, I got a BRNO mauser rebarreled to .300Win mag, its a good shooter. |
Gut shot maybe? 
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Charger I am a big fan of the Mauser in its original 8mm configuration as well. It easily bridges the gap between 308 and 30-06. If you plan to do a whole lot of practicing with it the ammo is also really really cheap if you shoot the surplus. You are probably looking at 500ish for a new rifle setup from walmart with any kind of decent scope but I will bet ya money you can find a scoped mauser at the fun show for under 200 dollars. If you like I can help you make it a good shooter as long as it doesnt have a washed out bore. One more suggestion is to head down to big 5 sporting goods and look at a mauser 24/47 These rifles were never issued in a war and most have all factory matching numbers. Great basis for a deer rifle and I have seen them go on sale for 125ish. I had one of these before my brother commandeered it that shot 4 inches at 200 yds with mojo peep sights and surplus turkish ammo. I forgot to add that the 308 win and 7.62 nato are so close as to be considered identical for most modern firearms. 308 win has a slightly higher chamber pressure and is considered by many to be unsafe to shoot in the fr-7 fr-8 series of mexican mausers.(I have never had a problem) |
The 7.62x54 is more like the 30-06 in that you can go to the heavier bullet weights 200gr-220gr. The 30-06 has about 100+- fps jump on the 7.62x54 in most loads. The big hassle with the 7.62x54 is getting good quality hunting ammo Norma is the only one that I know of that makes good brass cased ammo for it and its about $40 a box. As for firing 7.62x51 in a .308 chamber I haven't tried it in my bolt guns but I found this on another site.
Here's the Mossberg she shoots like a top.  |
Not to mention It's not easy to get 762x54 in descent hunting loads. and not a lot of .311 cal bullets for reloading. when compared to 30 cal projectiles. |
| Just get something .25 cal or bigger that you dont mind if it gets muddy or wet. Cause it will. That you can shoot well with. A remington 700 in .308 with 18-20 inch barrel and synthetic stocks and a 4-12x scope. Nothing too nice though cause it might get dropped banged etc. |
Take 405 southbound from Alderwood mall. Take the 195th stree Beardslee exit and take a right. Stay left past the UW/Cascadia campus on that rod which leads to downtown bothell. DJ's will be approximately 1 mile down on your right just past the post office. You can't miss the sign. |