Posted: 8/2/2015 10:50:52 AM EDT
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Guys
I have a F/A AR conversion, a preban lower, and a ton of uppers. On a whim, I did some research on fixed mag AR lowers. Since I don't usually go to the range to do mag dumps (that is what the F/A is for), and usually only load 10 rounds at a time anyway, I figured a fixed mag lower would be a good range toy that avoids all the transportation restrictions of the AWB. Anyway, this is what I came up with.: http://www.dark-storm.com/dsi-ds-15-stripped-fixed-magazine-lower-receiver-black.html from Dark Storm http://www.ctlegalars.com/#!products/c15uw from ComGraf Although the Dark Storm product is more modern looking, it will take any standard capacity magazine you want to insert in it, since it is retained by a set screw on the inside of the receiver. The ComGraf lower is a traditional A2 looking receiver, but the cut-out for the bump in the magazine around the mag catch slot, does not go all the way to the bottom of the mag well. What this does, is make it so you have to insert the magazine in from the top of the receiver, after removing the bolt stop (held in by a set screw, not a roll pin like a regular AR). Also, supposedly, the geometry is off so a curved mag will not go in (although I bet a straight 20 rounder will). And, it only works with a GI style mag. Anyway, I am just more comfortable with the ComGraf design. Has anyone had any experience with either lower? I have contacted Dark Storm, and they said they have sold over 1000 of these (they are in NY). ComGraf seems to be using Gunbroker to sell their lower, but has no feedback, so I don't even know if they have sold any. Yes I know, the prices seem high compared to a $39.95 Anderson lower, but since we can't buy any of the cheap lowers, that is a moot point. Also, these are a much smaller production run, and that means they cost more. And yes, you can buy a preban for 2-3 times the price, but those come along with the AWB restrictions of where you can transport and possess them. Remember, the goal is an less restricted range toy, that allows you to train with a centerfire rifle that does everything like a normal AR does, but the reloading. |
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Quoted:
ComGraf seems to be using Gunbroker to sell their lower, but has no feedback, so I don't even know if they have sold any. Have you tried contacting them to find out and or ask them additional questions? There is a contact link right on their website: http://www.ctlegalars.com Here is something I've wondered. Could someone go out of state with one of the Fixed Magazine Kits, ask an out of state gun shop to install it to a run of the mill non banned by name AR-15 lower, then sell that lower to you as they would with any other long gun since the lower would technically, all depending on how one interprets the law, potentially get pasted the banned by name language that bans AR's and copies/duplicates of them. I also wonder if any instate shops will similarly do such a conversion prior to selling the non banned by name lower to a CT resident. Someone would probably have to become a test case to find out. Comgraf's reasoning why it may possibly be legal to modify a run of the mill non banned by name AR lower with a fixed magazine kit can be found at this link. It all comes down to how SLFU has worded their opinion on what constitutes a copy or duplicate and one's interpretation of that opinion. Below is a quick and dirty typing of the SLFU opinion that was supposedly sent out to some (or some FFL's) that Comgraf obtained: If the answer to each of the following three questions is "yes" when comparing a firearm to one that is specifically named in C.G.S. 53-202a(1)(B), 53-202a(1)(C) or 53-202a(1)(D), the firearm shall fall under the "copies or duplicates" language of C.G.S. 53-202a:
Physical Appearance: Does the "action" of the firearm look like that of a firearm specifically named in CGS 53-202a(1)(B), 53-202a(1)(C) or 53-202a(1)(D)? Functionality: Does the "action" of the firearm work like that of a firearm specifically named in CGS 53-202a(1)(B), 53-202a(1)(C) or 53-202a(1)(D)? Interchangeable Parts: Are the major components of the "action" (ie the bolt, the operating rod, the trigger and/or the sear) in its stock configuration interchangeable with that of a firearm specifically named in CGS 53-202a(1)(B), 53-202a(1)(C) or 53-202a(1)(D)? If the answer to all three of the above questions is "yes" and a certificate of possession has not been obtained for the firearm but is required (i.e., it is not a pre-ban firearm), the party in possession shall surrender the firearm or render it inoperable. |
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What are the restrictions your looking to avoid? I'm seriously asking. All the restrictions added by the AWB. Where you can shoot it, where you can possess it, how you have to transport it, that sort of thing. I believe you can even SBR it w/o an AW COP, or make a pistol out of it (virgin Preban receivers are hard to come by). |
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Sbhaven
I have sent a message to ComGraf, and am waiting on a reply. Dark Storm has sent me several replies to my inquires. We have discussed the ComGraf mag catch kit before. My opinion (useless as it is), is that it would be a no go. Because the lower (banned by name or not), would be mechanically identical to a banned model, and is not a Preban. Both the ComGraf and Dark Star lowers are missing the entire magazine catch machining. The ComGraf version also prevents the insertion of a mag from outside the mag well. So, they bypass the mechanically identical wording of the AWB. I also believe they would not fall under the three rule test you mention, as they do not have detachable mags. The Dark Star lower is a bit cheaper, but I like the ComGraf lowers preclusion of inserting a mag from the bottom. Just was checking to see if anyone had actually built one or not. |
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Ares scr
Preban You can try to. Technically it's not an aw due to it not having a removable mag, but to find a dealer to back it up, and transfer it, or to go to the state and ask if it's good to go, needs to be accomplished with legit paperwork regarding the law, and paper and designs of lower and how it functions to support/back your side and explanations. |
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Quoted:
We have discussed the ComGraf mag catch kit before. My opinion (useless as it is), is that it would be a no go. Because the lower (banned by name or not), would be mechanically identical to a banned model, and is not a Preban. Both the ComGraf and Dark Star lowers are missing the entire magazine catch machining. The ComGraf version also prevents the insertion of a mag from outside the mag well. So, they bypass the mechanically identical wording of the AWB. I also believe they would not fall under the three rule test you mention, as they do not have detachable mags. With the Congraf magazine kit, at least the one I tested, one removes the magazine catch. There is practically no way the magazine can used without pinning it in place, it would fall out of the AR without the magazine catch in place. As such with the magazine catch removed one has technically changed the "functionality" of the firearm so the "action of the weapon" technically no longer works like the action of a standard AR-15. The wording of the "action of the weapon" definition would seem to indicate that by removing the magazine release/magazine catch, one has changed the "action of the weapon". Because of this one could, depending on their interpretation of the SLFU three part test, conceivably answer "NO" to the "Functionality" test. Obviously this is all based on one's interpretation of the both SLFU's opinion and the Sec. 53-202a statute. Unless SLFU comes back with a definitive opinion (which they most likely will never do) on the use of a fixed magazine kit to bypass the copy/duplicates language someone will probably have to become a test case to get a definitive answer one way or the other. |
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Quoted:
Ares scr Preban You can try to. Technically it's not an aw due to it not having a removable mag, but to find a dealer to back it up, and transfer it, or to go to the state and ask if it's good to go, needs to be accomplished with legit paperwork regarding the law, and paper and designs of lower and how it functions to support/back your side and explanations. Already explained my reasoning for not looking for another preban! 
The Ares is a strange bird. By the letter of the law, it is not legal. The bolt carrier strut and recoil spring are in the wrist, above all the deadly other fingers you are supposed to not be over! If it is legal, then that stupid Hammer Head setup that is legal in NY should be legal here too (not that you would want it). I believe the State Police allowing it to be sold is a gift, a gift that may be turned on someone if they find themselves arrested, and a prosecutor looks at it and disagrees with the SP. And speaking of the SP, the state has already said it won't give opinions on what is legal or not. They will just arrest you if they feel you are wrong. So good luck with getting any paperwork to say these receivers are legal. Bottom line, at least in the ComGraf version, you have to open up the action, and remove two screws and the bolt catch to remove the magazine from the top. And you can't insert a magazine from the bottom. Cut and dried, by the letter of the law, it does not meet the definition of an AW. |
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Then, of course, there is this!
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_9/566367_NY_10_complete_with_pictures.html Neat idea, but I would not think it would pass muster here! If you drilled out the rivet holding in the magazine, you could just insert a standard one. Pretty much identical/interchangeable in design as an AW receiver. |
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State has been accepting ares scr's as good to go for a while. Shops sell them...
And there is another style mag release that has a lever in it that touches the upper receiver when you press the release, so you need to pop the rear pin.. This is beating a dead horse. Buy the ctlegalar one and go for it. Try to find an FFL that will add it to your Anderson lower or whatever. Let us know. I want an ar10 lower, but no one is making it ct legal. So the only way to go for this is to bite the bullet and go for it |
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Quoted:
State has been accepting ares scr's as good to go for a while. Shops sell them... And there is another style mag release that has a lever in it that touches the upper receiver when you press the release, so you need to pop the rear pin.. This is beating a dead horse. Buy the ctlegalar one and go for it. Try to find an FFL that will add it to your Anderson lower or whatever. Let us know. I want an ar10 lower, but no one is making it ct legal. So the only way to go for this is to bite the bullet and go for it Oh I agree that the Ares rifle is being sold in CT. If you do some searches, you will find my posting on handling one of the first ones in the state. It is just reading the law, it shouldn't be. But what the hell, banned by name prebans aren't legal either, but the DESPP says their OK! Thank God and take what they will give. |