Posted: 12/12/2006 4:20:18 PM EDT
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Seems Front Sight is still in hot water. The Link The settlement of a lawsuit against the Front Sight Firearms Training Institute near Pahrump appears to be falling apart. During a hearing in San Jose, the company admitted it had not lived up to the terms of the agreement. Several Front Sight members filed a class action lawsuit against the company claiming it defrauded them out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. In an effort to stay out of court Front Sight settled, or so it seemed, until its lawyers admitted that the company missed its mark. Front Sight founder Dr. Ignatius Piazza, a chiropractor by trade, dodged the I-Team outside federal court in San Jose. A hearing to approve the terms of a settlement agreement, designed to save the firearms training institute near Pahrump, instead revealed the deal had deteriorated. The sale of the property and the relocation of the range both required by the settlement failed to happen. Attorney Keith Greer said, "Now, with the escrow not closing and the buyer being a little wiggly, we have some issues." The judge agreed to give both sides a few hours to return to the bargaining table offering Piazza a second chance to dodge the I-Team's cameras and skip his hearing. Piazza's new lawyer also had little to say. He just got the case Friday but he told the judge that he felt they were close to a deal. "My client is in my office where he's supposed to be," replied Richard Williams. Attorney Keith Greer disagreed. He argued the sale of new memberships continued to create potential victims, like his client Bill Haag, who paid $175,000 for a membership to include a 1-acre home site he has yet to receive. "Those people's money was used to get his operation up and going and they want that back. They want to be treated like other members now and have what's really their risk capital returned to them," explained Greer. Greer also points out that Front Sight violated the court's previous order by publishing a letter detailing terms of the settlement to his members. What Piazza didn't tell them was that in the last few months the Internal Revenue Service and a contractor have put liens on the property totaling more than $320,000. Greer said, "We don't want to let new members come in until we are comfortable there's going to be a Front Sight thirty, forty years from now." Given the new information the judge ruled to suspend the sale of new memberships and appoint a neutral person to oversee the business. His order will take effect by the end of this week. Eyewitness News got a call late Monday from Attorney Keith Greer who said both sides may have reached a new settlement. The state Fire Marshal says they have still not complied. Front Sight also has not paid the contractor hired to bring them up to state code. |
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I have no idea if they are doomed. This lawsuit sounds like it is just the beginning of their problems. Something that is kind of interesting about this lawsuit (as I understand it). The guy who's name is being mentioned is a guy that definitely DOESN'T want to see anything bad happen to Frontsight. He is a very active member of Frontsight and has taken many classes and continues to take classes there. I have personally been in at least three classes with him. All he wants is for Frontsight to live up to the terms of the agreement he had when he bought his membership. Who knows ? When I bought my membership, I considered the whole thing to be on shaky ground. In talking to other students at the classes they feel the same way. However, I have definitely gotten my money back out of my membership investment and would be disappointed but not devastated if they whole house of cards collasped. For those of you that have never been there, it is a terrific shooting venue. The business part of it sounds like it is another story. I personally would prefer stick with the shooting part of it and let the business part of it shake out as it will. |
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No. I had no interest in property or the community although I do think it would be cool if it ever comes to pass. My membership is stictly for training and cost a small fraction of what they are talking about in this news story. And, I paid what I paid over a period of like four years or so. I first went to Frontsight several years ago. If I remember correctly I bought a certificate off someone on this very board: the Nevada Hometown section of AR15.com. I was highly skeptical of the whole place. Prior to my ever going to Frontsight, I had taken at least one class at Gunsite which I considered to the the epitome of the firearms training schools, so I was looking at Frontsight with a jaded eye. When I took the class at Frontsight I was very impressed and bought in with the cheapest membership they had. I think they called it an Iron membership. It was their basic classes as many times as you wanted. Shortly after that, Piazza gave everyone a free upgrade up one level. A couple years later I saw a bunch of the more advanced classes that I thought would be fun so when yet another of the endless stream of offers came out I upgraded to silver. This entitled me to take any firearms related course they had or ever would have. At some point after that in another offer I upgraded again to the Founder's Membership which entitled me to any class Frontsight has or would ever have, firearms related or not. So, to make a long story even longer. I got into this a little at a time and paid my money with my eyes fully open and aware of the situation and I don't regret it one bit. In fact, I just registered for 5-6 classes for the upcoming year. To repeat myself, I have been to Gunsite for ....... 4 classes ? Basic and Advanced Carbine, Basic Shotgun, Basic Handgun. And I consider Frontsight to be a fantastic deal. I paid full price for the classes I took at Gunsite, so I know what it costs to take a class like this. So far, I have taken 12 or 13 classes at Frontsight and IF I had paid full price for those classes I would have spent more than I have in my membership. So, that is why I consider myself to have gotten my money's worth out of it. Every class I get to take is simply icing on the cake. |
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It sure hasn't stopped them from sending me dozens of emails and letters offering ridiculous new memberships and give aways. The letter that they reference that allegedly detailed the settlement of the suit really didn't give any details though. In fact, it refused to divulge any of the details and encouraged members to accept the class action if they were eligible. I had to look up the public record on the lawsuit to find out the details. Even then it was tough to plow through. it's like 40 pages of legalese. From what I can tell though, it's three members who paid for memberships that included land, and are bent out of shape because they haven't been able to occupy that land. That initial complaint has then snowballed into a number of other problems. It'll be a real shame if it folds. Front Sight has a great range (despite having no plumbing) and their instruction is top notch. I didn't pay a lot for my membership, so I won't cry a lot over than, but I sure do like it there and I'll be upset if I can't go anymore. Honestly though, as much as I like it, I think Piazza may be Front Sight's biggest liability. He comes off as a real hard sell and his emails and letters are long winded and crazy sounding. |
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I've been to their 4-day defensive handgun class and the 2-day tactical shotgun class and gained a lot of info from both. At the shotgun class, I ante'd up and bought the Challenge membership for $1200, and have yet to go back for another class. My brother and father both have certs, and we were supposed to go take the classes together, but haven't been able to yet. I guess we better plan it out soon. |
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I first met Ignatius Piazza back in the early 90-s we both took a general rifle class together at GunSite. To much of a wheeler and dealer. Just a mater of time until he goes down and takes a lot of good peoples money with him. oh ya I bet him in the shoot off. 
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When I took my first class I felt the same thing. But I see it as the same uneasy feeling I have about our "gun rights", and how they have changed and will change in the future. I'll take advantage of what is available to me and do what I can to help keep it in our favor. I have 3 memberships as well...(one for me, one for wife, & one for daughter). I agree w/ everything 444 said above. It would be a big disappointment to lose all that Front Sight has to offer. That being said I have 6-7 classes I want to take this year. I hope I get to. In defense of Piazza... He had a vision... he went after it... he made Front Sight a good training facility... he trains my friends and family to higher levels of confidence and firearms handling... he is pro-gun... He's Human and fell short on a few promises/dreams. |