Posted: 3/14/2013 5:04:27 AM EDT
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I understand that in today's market, there are people willing to pay two or three times the MSRP for guns. However, I'm not sure how I feel about gun stores using online auctions to get inflated prices for their weapons. There are a lot of people preaching "shop local" even though online gun prices were better. Now I realize that someone like Bud's Gun Shop will auction off it's most popular guns because they don't care about anything but the bottom line. I get that. I just was under the naive impression that local gun stores were a two way street. I shop there knowing the prices are a tad bit higher, but also knowing that the service and convenience more than made up for the extra buck or two. Now I'm noticing that some local gun stores are using auctions to get top dollar for the most popular guns (mostly ARs, but also more rare pistols). I recently bought a handgun locally that was cheaper online (even with shipping and transfer fee). I wanted to continue the relationship with the gun store. (Call me old-fashioned.) Now they too are auctioning off guns, specifically two guns that I can't find locally. It just irritates me and makes me question if I should continue to shop there. If they worry about their bottom line by squeezing every penny out of the market maybe I should only care about my bottom line.
I just don't think that I can support a local gun store that uses auctions to get inflated prices and forgets about the local customers that have supported them for years. Sorry for the 8 a.m. mini-rant. I'm 30 minutes away from the dentist.  Obviously, I'm not looking forward to that.
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I have no problem with it, in fact I support it. Businesses are in business to make money, who gives a damn if their customer is in a different area code. If you run a business like the old general store, you're going to be out of business soon.
Businesses making money is actually BETTER for you and I because they are putting more money back into the local economy. Someone like Midwest or Bravo Co probably pay more in taxes then my annual income. |
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I'm not advocating for local gun stores to sell at MSRP. They can still make a larger than normal profit by selling local in the shop. I just don't agree with using auctions to feed their bottom line by using the "nobody is forcing them to spend that much" excuse.
I'll use the example from above, but let's not forget that guns do not get a 1000% markup online. When panic buying slows and production catches up, nobody will be paying $100 for that item. Now it's back to selling the item for $10. The same price every merchant will sell it for - both locally and online. Now where are you getting the customer base to support your business? If a business alienates them to make a quick buck, the customers will not come back. (And I'm referring more to gun stores than manufacturers. I understand that manufacturers need to move beyond the area code to support and grow their product line.) |
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I'm not advocating for local gun stores to sell at MSRP. They can still make a larger than normal profit by selling local in the shop. I just don't agree with using auctions to feed their bottom line by using the "nobody is forcing them to spend that much" excuse. I'll use the example from above, but let's not forget that guns do not get a 1000% markup online. When panic buying slows and production catches up, nobody will be paying $100 for that item. Now it's back to selling the item for $10. The same price every merchant will sell it for - both locally and online. Now where are you getting the customer base to support your business? If a business alienates them to make a quick buck, the customers will not come back. (And I'm referring more to gun stores than manufacturers. I understand that manufacturers need to move beyond the area code to support and grow their product line.) Sounds like a business opportunity. Get your FFL, open a shop and run that other place out of business. |
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Nobody is forcing them to pay more. You fail to understand the demand for the product by many is stronger then yours.
My demand is low, I don't need to buy anything so I won't buy unless it is at or below normal prices. Anything I have sold has been 2x to 3x what I paid. You can expect to see some local shops go tits up by this Fall. With the lack of supply they have no way to make a profit. So they have a few choices. Use up their cash reserves as they lose money. Find new revenue streams AKA diversify. Increase margins. Since high demand is driving the shortage the quickest way to survive is to increase margins. Few small business's have 6 months to 2 years operating capital on hand. If they do, they have no desire to burn it in this overall economy. The scare is driving this trend. Not disposable income. When it ends, it will end hard and drop like a rock. There will be sales this winter due to a surplus of inventory. This is a scary roller coaster for gun shops. |
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It comes down to the fact that no one is in business to make other people money.
The first time you sell someone something at a fair price and they come back to you a few days later and tell you how much money they made off of it is the last time you want to help them find what they are looking for. Had the retailer put the price the customer got for it on the price tag everyone would have been screaming gougers. I use this example a lot, but here it is again. When it comes to internet forums, If I buy stock in S&W and the value of the shares go up so I sell them I am a genius. If I buy a few S&W guns and when the value goes up I sell them I am a gouger and an ass hole. To be honest I think auctions are the best place to sell some things because they allow the item to sell for what the market is bringing. I personally was looking for a very difficult to find handgun last week. I ended up getting it off of gunbroker. I payed way more than it would have gone for a few months ago but the seller got what the market is bringing on that gun. That's life. I got what I wanted and so did the seller. |
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Another thing auctions do is allow you to reach into areas where money is no object. It is all relative but if employee X makes 50k here and employee Y makes 110k doing the same work in NYC paying double or triple may not be a big deal to him on disposable income purchases under 1-4k.
There is nothing wrong with selling for profit to panicked dipshits with money who failed to prepare. It is good for Wisconsin. |
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One of the local shops in my area lists every gun they have on Gun Broker. I love that I can instantly view their inventory, bid on guns, and pickup local without paying for shipping or FFL fee. I do have to pay sales tax. I can also go into the store and haggle if the gun doesn't sell.
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| My LGS sells things at a fair price. all the new guns i have bought have not been over what i can get them on the internet for. and i know he was selling things online for way more then what he priced stuff at, am i bothered buy this? No way in hell the price in his store has stayed normal. and probably have stayed that low because he can make that profit online. if your tired of paying over internet price for something tell your dealer by spending your money elsewhere> your LGS is a business and they are trying to make money just like the rest of us, if you dont like it spend your money elsewhere. Bottom line Money talks |
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We sold three glocks last week and the guy wants to know when we are getting more since he made almost 100 bucks each off them. Yeah we are not worried about if we are hurting anyone's feelings anymore. So he's being a non-licensed dealer, hmm? Did you tell him what the consequences are? |
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After he told me to F off he noticed we had small pistol primers and tried to buy me out of them. What a troll. Please tell me you didn't sell him any pistol primers. I cant believe these guys are so assine to buy for the purpose of selling these guns go back to he dealer and say hey i sold these guns for 100 more then i paid? what i going thru there heads at that point? |
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After he told me to F off he noticed we had small pistol primers and tried to buy me out of them. What a troll. Please tell me you didn't sell him any pistol primers. I cant believe these guys are so assine to buy for the purpose of selling these guns go back to he dealer and say hey i sold these guns for 100 more then i paid? what i going thru there heads at that point? That happens all the time. |
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After he told me to F off he noticed we had small pistol primers and tried to buy me out of them. What a troll. Please tell me you didn't sell him any pistol primers. I cant believe these guys are so assine to buy for the purpose of selling these guns go back to he dealer and say hey i sold these guns for 100 more then i paid? what i going thru there heads at that point? No I told him to kick rocks. |
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After he told me to F off he noticed we had small pistol primers and tried to buy me out of them. What a troll. Please tell me you didn't sell him any pistol primers. I cant believe these guys are so assine to buy for the purpose of selling these guns go back to he dealer and say hey i sold these guns for 100 more then i paid? what i going thru there heads at that point? That happens all the time. I know that it happens my dealer has told me about it happening to him. but i dont understand what is in there head when they go back to the dealer and say that. why not just lie and say you want a shit load of guns |
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I don't have an issues with auctions, but some people just aren't cut out for business. Converting from a local-only store to having an online-presence is a difficult thing to do successfully. Some people sort of lose sight of the ball.
I've had good luck at Midwest's retail store. A family member of mine recently purchased a pistol there and I thought it was a really fair price, and they always have top quality service there. She was really happy with the whole process. In another example, I was talking to one of the reps there a week or so after Newtown about mag prices; and they weren't marking them up even though many other online stores were at the time (of course, they sold out promptly). I'm not sure if that counts as schilling or not, but I've no relation to them, and it's true. I can remove this paragraph if it's against TOS or something. |
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We sold three glocks last week and the guy wants to know when we are getting more since he made almost 100 bucks each off them. Yeah we are not worried about if we are hurting anyone's feelings anymore. Besides feelings... I can't tell you how I know this, so take it for what its worth to you... A guy kept buying AR-15's at a local gun store, then immediately turned around and sold them as new on Armslist for a profit. He did this five or more times. For his troubles, he received a little visit from the BATFE for selling guns for profit, without an FFL. On or two... go ahead. Any more then that, you are looking for trouble. |
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We sold three glocks last week and the guy wants to know when we are getting more since he made almost 100 bucks each off them. Yeah we are not worried about if we are hurting anyone's feelings anymore. So he's being a non-licensed dealer, hmm? Did you tell him what the consequences are? ATF still uses that multiple handgun purchase form don't they? That right there is an invitation to ATF for a party they aren't going to miss. |
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We sold three glocks last week and the guy wants to know when we are getting more since he made almost 100 bucks each off them. Yeah we are not worried about if we are hurting anyone's feelings anymore. Besides feelings... I can't tell you how I know this, so take it for what its worth to you... A guy kept buying AR-15's at a local gun store, then immediately turned around and sold them as new on Armslist for a profit. He did this five or more times. For his troubles, he received a little visit from the BATFE for selling guns for profit, without an FFL. On or two... go ahead. Any more then that, you are looking for trouble. How does BATFE know that he sold them? They obviously know he's buying them but after that how would they know he's sold them? Agents browsing gunbroker/armslist and keeping track of individuals listing guns for sale? |
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How does BATFE know that he sold them? They obviously know he's buying them but after that how would they know he's sold them? Agents browsing gunbroker/armslist and keeping track of individuals listing guns for sale? He has to buy guns to sell them. There is a record of that. If he sells guns across state lines they go through an FFL. There is a record of that. If he lists guns on GB or Auction Arms there is a record of that So if he buys 20 Glocks in 6 months, lists 18 of them on GB and sells 13 out of State it is not hard to do the math, he is acting like an gun shop without the FFL. Dumping some guns you have owned for years is one thing, buying to flip them is treating your local shop like a distributor to your private shop. This is exactly why I am OK with gun shops selling high on the web. They pay to have an FFL, brick and mortar store front, payroll, taxes and lots of cash wrapped up in inventory just so we can roll in and finger fuck all of it. |
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Quoted:This is exactly why I am OK with gun shops selling high on the web. They pay to have an FFL, brick and mortar store front, payroll, taxes and lots of cash wrapped up in inventory just so we can roll in and finger fuck all of it.
Goddammit, now I'm horny... |
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Those in the industry know that supply is near non-existent for handguns and EBR's. One main distributors has ZERO handguns in inventory right now and most of the others are down to ISSC m22 and Rossi lever action handguns. Local shops need to maximize profit on every sale now more than ever. If you normally get 20 AR15's a month and now you can only get 10 you need to mark those up to get the margins you need to survive.
It was mentioned before that someone is going to make the extra profit that the panic buying is generating. Why not the business? Why should the LGS sell for 20% profit and let an individual flip it for another 50%? Raising prices helps ensure that people that really want an item have a chance of finding it rather than someone else picking it up just to flip it. I have no problem with people flipping for a profit just not gonna happen at my expense on my watch. Some distributors have raised prices so LGS' are paying more also. The ones that have not are out of product. LGS have spent years fighting with Online vendors like Bud's that get better pricing because of volume and are happy to make $30 on a gun that they never have to touch with vendor drop-ship programs. No way local shops can compete against that business model especially with everyone wanting to pay $15 for transfers. After all it just takes a few minutes right? That may work for the kitchen table dealer with a regular job but try keeping a shop open. Inventory, employees, expenses making $15 transfers. Good luck. I don't see anyone sitting on extra mags, ammo or guns listing them for pre panic prices. Buy low sell high. Basic economics like someone said earlier. |
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I don't blame the LGS for the inflated prices, nor them keeping up with those inflated prices to survive. I did at first, but now I don't blame them. But I have no love for the unlicensed assholes buying and flipping guns for a profit. They're the ones causing the inflated prices, and when it's guns they're buying from the LGS, then marking them up and re-selling for profit reasons only without possessing a FFL, that's illegal & I hope they all get busted.
I have nothing against private sales when it's to enhance or downsize your own collection... but selling for profit only, requires a license to do so. The LGS has made this their full-time livelyhood, and invested heavily. Along comes "Joe-the-panic-profiteer" to fuck it all up. When the panic subsides, Joe goes back to whatever else he can fuck up, but the LGS struggles to survive... or goes under. If they go under, Joe won't be there to pick up the slack, and we all get screwed. I know there's a few who will say "Well that's capitalism". Even capitalists have to go by some rules. In this situation, one of those rules is - to buy and sell guns for profit requires a federal license! Those who do so without that license are taking an unfair advantage over those who follow the rules... so fuck 'em if they get caught. |
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Let me tell you one thing I was under the impression we were under the radar a lot more then we are. When I applied for my FFL the ATF told me all my Armlist personal auctions and gunbroker auctions would have to stop and they noted there were quite a few. That freaked me a bit.
Now as for the gun buying. I deal with the police quite a bit and now am on great terms with most of them. One of them let it slip that when I moved out to my new house in the country a courtesy call to the PD living out here was made from other police departments that had gotten my multiple handgun purchases and I was on a watch list. Kind of pissed me off since all it would have taken was a stop by to see I was a decent guy not some whack job. Now that I supply the cops with guns they love me living out there. So you people that think you are gray try harder. |
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Quoted:This is exactly why I am OK with gun shops selling high on the web. They pay to have an FFL, brick and mortar store front, payroll, taxes and lots of cash wrapped up in inventory just so we can roll in and finger fuck all of it.
Goddammit, now I'm horny... And now the ATF knows that too! You get cross indexed in multiple databases now. |
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Quoted:This is exactly why I am OK with gun shops selling high on the web. They pay to have an FFL, brick and mortar store front, payroll, taxes and lots of cash wrapped up in inventory just so we can roll in and finger fuck all of it.
Goddammit, now I'm horny... And now the ATF knows that too! You get cross indexed in multiple databases now. When I was in college I had concurrent subscriptions to the following magazines: Playboy Penthouse Hustler Soldier of Fortune Suffice it to say I've been on multiple federal databases ever since then... 
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