Posted: 5/17/2004 7:12:18 AM EDT
| Are there any groups working on aboloshing handgun regsitration in Michigan? If so, who are they? If not, WHY? |
|
I don't know if there are any groups working on getting the law regarding handgun registration changed. I am a member of both the NRA and the GOA, and neither group is actively lobbying to have the handgun registration laws in Michigan changed. I would like to see this law changed, and the handgun registrations destroyed. I am think that with the backing of an active organization, we could see this succede. Especially when you consider the fact that the CCWs have been so successful in Michigan, and that South Carolina and Florida have made huge strides in increasing gun owners rights. I'm just wondering if there are any Michigan based groups (since the national groups don't seem to care) that are currently working toward abolosihing the handgun registry in Michigan. This would only make it easier for law abiding citizens to obtain firearms. And I am all for that! |
|
MI Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners would be the most likely organization to take up this fight. I don't know if they have bigger fish to fry right now or if they are resting since the fight for CCW ended successfully. I think it might be hard battle since it it difficult to point out negatives of registration to the sheeple. You can tell them it is inconvenient and an affront to your rights, but I doubt they will care. Kent |
|
Dear Motown, GOA is attempting to take on a larger role in the various states. I can tel you this because I am the Mi. rep. for GOA. Although this initiative is new, we have had immediate impact and often have had to spar round after round with the NRA and MCRGO. We are always hoping to get members to asist in this endeavor and good area volunteers who are dedicated are few and far between. Being a member of both orgs. , I'm sure you are quite aware of the drastic differences in the two. If you are not, please go to www.gunowners.org and in the search engine type in " Larry Pratt's letter to the NRA". A REAL EDUCATION IS TO BE HAD THERE for gun owners. Additionally, we were recently and I must include single handedly, responsible for stopping many local municilalities across the state from requiring FINGERPRINTS JUST TO RECEIVE A PURCHASE PERMIT! Other organizations were apprehensive of having to face the authorities who were illegly violating the fourth amendment. Most attorneys that we have contacted are apprehensive to bring suit on behalf of plaintiffs. I thank you for your concern and if you have any candidates who have what it takes to perform this important, yet thankless task of fighting and not compromising our gun rights pleas give a shout. I am brand new to this site. Finally, to answer your question we have and always will fight for "Vermont Style" carry as we have here since 1994 and currently are[email protected]. However, surprise, guess which two groups fought us until they were successful at having the language removed from any carry bill? If I have to mention them, than no one was REALLY paying attention and we don't need "Vermont" style anyway. Success to GOA is NOT measured by adding additional restrictions. Thanks for your support! Your Michigan GOA rep. |
I know that the purchase permit card that the Warren PD has on file for me has my finger prints on it. Stinking commu-nazis! |
|
Welcome, GOAREP. Very glad to have you here. Keep up the fight. ETA: Making the link live www.gunowners.org |
|
Thank you all especially for all you folks do. Motown, Killing machine and Q. Master I'm excited to join your discussuion. If you notice a few type o's my puter keyboard sticks and some times the keys fail to double up on a letter. Motown, I'm enclosing this for you : http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/2000s/op10228.htm That's where you can go to get the info you need and if necessary, you can file a suit. As I mentioned previously, I've been a member of all the groups mentioned and gave them up for the best, GOA. I also worked in the State Legislature 11 yrs. and watched the other groups, whom I won't mention but have previously been mentioned, weaken and "negotiate our rights away and that was when I joined GOA . As the quite capable Ron Paul (R) Texas has repeatedly stated "GOA IS the only NO COMPROMISE gun rights organization in Washington". No matter what group you are in add GOA if you can and notice the difference! As previously mentioned, just go to www.gunowners.org and type in the search engine "larry Pratt's letter to the NRA. It is quite informative and you will also discover how some of these laws that get passed. are passed! Either NRA or it's underling affiliate in Mi., MCRGO ARE NOT THE RIGHT FIT, as I see it based on legislative experience, although both have provided some cosmetic comforts. Thanks again guy's. Mi. GOA rep.http://www.gunowners.org |
|
|
GOArep, like it or not, Vermont style CCW had NO chance of passing when the original bill went through. Putting that language in the bill would have killed the first step in getting a few rights back to us. The antis try to use incrementalism on us, and we have to do the same thing to get what we want -- give it a couple years, or until Granholm is gone and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a Vermont style bill get written...and due in part to the groups that helped the first bills get passed, including GOA. My reasoning? The average person's ignorance makes them a little leary of unrestricted firearms rights. Most state reps and senators are the same way. We need to give it time to show that good things come of it and that the alarmists' cries were in blatant disregard to common sense. No disrespect, and I appreciate your efforts, but jumping in with both feet would have killed our cause. It is unfortunate, but that is simply the way it works and will continue to work in Michigan. I would very much like to see the handgun registry get canned. People that do a little research know that it has no effect on crime, but the only way we can get rid of it is through education of those politicians and the general public that don't understand why we want to end this type of record-keeping. Again, that is the way it works in Michigan politics. |
So what is the next target, Vermont style CCW or canning the handgun registry? I would rather see the handgun registry get canned. I think it would be easier for the sheeple to swallow, and it would be nice if the State Police didn't have a list of every private, legally owned handgun in the State (we all know that the dope dealers and bank robber don;t have register handguns). That will give the current CCW time to gain accecptance and strengthen our cause for getting a Vermont style carry law. |
|
Dear Lokt, Perhaps you are correct when you say that Vermont never would have passed here. However, when Sen. David Jaye , then a State representative had HB 5454 which was close to a "Vermont Style" bill, there was nothing but opposition and compromises by many NRA supporters and disgruntled "Brass Roots" compromiseres who evnetually (and in a rather quick time frame I must add) went on to help form, then poison MCRGO into compromise status as well. That particular mechanism apperared to feally gain momentum as MCRGO became a state "underling" for the NRA. MCRGO had promised law abiding gun owners that if they would just go along for the dreaded ride to "more restriction" a long misguided NRA staple of promotion, that in following years we would have those restrictions removed. Please allow me to remind you we had a republican controled house/sen. and Gov. , at the time. The question is , so what hapened last round with NRA/ MCRGO promises to REMOVE these dreaded restrictions? Well . . . THEY ADDED MORE! This is the same flawed strategy that has reduced gun owners on the federal level. We now have a full republican U.S. house/senate and President, which we have wasted by NOT MAKING DEMANDS FOR OUR RIGHTS. The famous words of NRA's Kayne Robinson " we'll have our office set up in the whitehouse". So far, can you tell me one law that's been REPEALED? A noteworthy and interesting matter is the NRA questionairre to candidates for the Mi. house of reps. It seeks suport for the "Insta Check" system as anually pushed by the NRA, which is tantamount to federal registration (go to www.gunowners.org in the search engine type in "Insta or inatant Check". See what you get! For a real eyeopener type in the search engine "Larry Pratt's letter to the NRA). GOA IS working for Vermont Style in Mi. but we need a lot of help and this illogical thought of "incrementalism" that we're allowing to inculcate and lull to sleep 2nd amendment advocates must be abandoned if we are to get anywhere. The only thing that these excuses are doing is giving YOUR reps more time to pass so they can ensure their pension and move on to bigger office since we will provide THIS EXCUSE FOR THEM, SO THEY WONT HAVE TO BE CONCERNED WITH THE DIFFICUlT DECISIONS OF LOSING THE GUN OWNER VOTE OR BECOMING PROACTIVE. Again, GOA is making great strides locally (SEE ABOVE POST) but we need the help of UNCOMPROMISING advocates who want to work and not surrender our rights and as previously stated we have often had roadblocks from both NRA/MCRGO in our path. Anyone interested please let me know. P.S. Another excellent example is the Sec. of St. was suposed to take over the CCW permit process BUT HAVE YOU SEEN IT HAPPEN? |
David Jaye has some terrific ideas, however, he sometimes reminds me of the MI state version of Rep. Ron Paul (TX) --a very enthusiastic firearms' rights supporter, which I appreciate in the fullest amount possible, ...but even though it sucks to have to think this way, sometimes a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. The problem with a Repub state congress and gov. is that party lines are not nearly as hard and fast as they are at the national level; we can count on Democrats to understand and work with us to get our rights back almost as much as we can count on certain Repubs to flip flop. It's not clearly defined at the party level, as you know. Regardless, I'm not sure that I would characterize MCRGO's efforts as a 'more restrictive' type ride - they knew what was realistic and what could/would pass and become law. Vermont style CCW would not have passed at the time the bill went to congress.
Can you elaborate on this, or at elast point me in the direction of a resource? I'd like to learn more.
I agree fully. I write, call, and email frequently on a number of issues, though firearms and hunting related issues are usually the ones I concentrate most on. Again, I haven't heard of any current efforts to roll back restrictions, but I assure you, I'd put as much time as I can into those efforts.
I'm interested. If you could email or IM info pertaining to GOA and their (your) efforts in MI, I'd appreciate it!  Actually, If you could post any sort of that info on this page, I'm sure a number of us would take advantage of it and put some time in!
No. I haven't. And AFAIK, it never even got decided on, though I may be mistaken. Thanks for your time, GOAREP |
|
sometimes a bird in hand is worth two in the bush That was not the case here at all! We were successful at going county by county and having individual counties turn to the permit process as more than a dozen counties, led by Dave Jaye's Macomb who were telling the state to go to hell! That was in 1994. Then MCRGO CAME ALONG WITH AND WERE STRONG UNDER OD COLLINS. Quickly Rod was asked to step aside for the new version of "gun rights lite" i.e. something is better than nothing mentality. I must again emphasize it was the MCRGO / NRA "hunting gang" that gave up our self defense issues. With all due respect Lokt, i'l take the Ron Paul's and Dave Jaye's 24/7 and eventually you will find yourself in line with the compromisers asking where the hell did my right's go? Case in point is that we HAVE MORE RESTRICTIONS after proving how responsible we are. There is no other way to look at this other than this was a foolish trade-off negotiated away by unskilled hands at MCRGO. P.S, I will add the restictions in a follow up so as to have a complete list. However, have you been to www.gunowners.org and typed in "Larry Pratt's letter to the NRA " yet? I believe that tells an awful lot about what we are really trying to work with. P. P.S. I urge everyone to join GOA . You can sign up for a lifetime membership and pay as you please for $20 down. You also have no time limit on paying (ex. every year, every other year, or every five years. Just designate life time and you will get ALL the benefits.) Once you reach $500 you are paid in full! Thanks Lokt, GOAREP |
Yes, I've read the letter on more than one occasion.
Macomb County sure isn't Livingston County. How do you figure that going from a 'well, we might issue you a permit, but just for hunting, mmmkay?' type stance as was so prevalent in the other 71 counties (and you had to have very serious demonstrable need to get an unrestricted permit) before to shall issue permits after legislation went through is more restrictive? IIRC, there are now some places that people aren't allowed to carry, which sucks, but what else? More $$? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just trying to learn more about what exactly happened. I didn't mean to make it appear that I was putting down David Jaye and Ron Paul, either, as I respect their dedication and devotion to the 2A cause very strongly. I hate the train of thought that leads to us compromising. HOWEVER, it is only compromising if we give up fighting towards what we want. IMO, the current CCW laws are a starting point, and hopefully the end of handgun registration/Vermont style ccw are headed our way, with no small amount of thanks due to GOA, etc. I'd also love to see MI become a class III state, but that is realistically at least a few if not ten years away from even seeing the light just because of how long it takes to organize that kind of effort. To clarify, I don't support the 'something is better than nothing' mentality. In fact, I despise it. That 'something' was indeed better than the nothing that most of the state had, but as I said before, I consider it a starting point! -Case in point- the Dove bill. Rep. Susan Tabor introduced a bill that would open a MI mourning dove season several times. (over the last ?ten+ years) It finally passed house and senate this year. Granholm said she would veto it if it didn't contain language for a referendum....then, later recanted and said that she would consider passing a bill that would allow for a three year trial season in southern MI border counties after which the issue would go to the DNR to study the effects and decide if it can be made permanent. This is a major foot in the door, because the DNR will not say NO to a dove season in MI. Now it's back to the house to be rewritten--and it will probably be another two years minimum before we see a season. In this state, the realistic processes for obtaining better firearms ownership protection laws aren't a whole lot different. It's not that I want to see stuff go slowly, I'd rather it all happen at once, but again, I don't think it's terribly realistic to expect all these things that we want to happen overnight in this state...until we are able to get enough people who see the need to hold politicians accountable for acting to protect our rights immediately, which plays an enormous part in the protection gunowners' rights My first installment to GOA is in the mail. -Nick |
|
Dear Lokt, Slight disagreement should never be a matter at at all. In fact, IMO, it's what brings about more solutions as long as we WORK at them. I do agree that the ANTI'S throw so much at us at once, that it is distactful to our united focus. I like your enthusiasim, you have the spirit that so many of us (and many on this site) need, to keep our voices heard. YOUR POINTS ARE WELL TAKEN. However, we must use our "clout" when the opportunities are there. WE CANNOT AFFORD TO WASTE OPPORTUNITIES WHERE WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. I always found this a fascinating statistic, that being that we have 80 million gun owners! With those numbers we could elect ANYONE President (congress, senate etc.) if we just used our "clout" at the polls and perseverance through activism. Personally, I try to never miss a chance to call a show C-SPAN / local radio (what have you) or write a letter to the paper. Just like the ANTI'S we must use every chance we get to illustrate to the "unknowing" we are the good guy's. Case in point, just last night I was at dinner with a friend who's running for congress. Now my friend enjoys hearing me speak on the 2A subject. We met a attractive , nice young lady and she mentioned she was in education. We exchanged cards and when she saw GOA on my card I could notice a change in her attitude. I asked was there a problem with my card and she mentioned that she was totally against guns. I replied to her that being in education did she understand that that was our right and she replied yes. After admitting it was our right she immediately went to the next level having conceeded at the previous. Her next claim ( WHICH BT THE WAY, IS WHAT THE ANTI'S ARE TRAINING THEIR PARROTS TO RECITE) was why does anyone need a semi auto firearm? I asked her how she knew so much about firearms and she told me that the "violence policy center" ( or whatever it's called) came to or was invited to a service traing session at some facility that she was at and thats when she HAD DECIDED THAT THESE EVIL SEMIAUTO WEAPONS HAD TO BE BANNED. I then asked her that it appeared that she had an awful lot of knowledge and I was very impressed with her training but I had just one question that would really educate me if she could answer. She was absolutely flattered and could not wait for me to ask seeming to know that she would just shine so brightly at my (evidently) ignorance. So I asked her: What is the difference in a semi auto and any other type of gun? Her reply: well a semi auto is the most deadly of any type of gun. I then asked if she could tell me any other type of gun. She him hawed around awhile and said "yes, assault weapon" I then told her that the majority of criminals use a firearm known as a revolver almost 10-1 and that it would fire the same as a semi auto. I continued that I was extremely dissapointed that she did not know the most popular tpe of firearm made. You should have seen how quickly she shrank into her chair and lost the small audience of women with her. My point: RARELY do these people have ANY REAL KNOWLEDGE OF GUNS THEY JUST REPEAT WHAT THEY ARE TOLD! All you have to do is educate the "middle of the road" folks to our side. Like politicians like to say " the election is not won on the left or on the right but at the middle" Let's put the "middle of the roaders" on our side BUT NEVER COMPROMISE! P.S. Lokt, it is a pleasure to have you with us in GOA! To respond to your question above we were winnig county by county and THAT'S WHAT MADE THE STATE SAY"UNCLE"! They saw the writing on the wall and knew they could no longer delay the inevitable. We were too overly excited and in my opinion should have waited for a better bill while throwing bums out of office county by county. Would it have taken a little longer? Probably. But now we have to start over as some of the best activists who were on board previously are either deceased of feel since we have CW there is nothing left to fight for. Hope I didn't offend or bore anyone. Please accept my appologies if I have. Thanks' GOAREP |
|
Not offended or bored; I appreciate your time taken to clarify. I've converted a few people as well, and find that a half hour or so over a few days at an indoor pistol range works wonders. Whatever the case is, we know it's a winnable battle. Please keep us updated on any up and coming bills, etc. Thanks |
|
Dear Lokt, If you can let me know your state rep. / state sen. it will help me to use a little more pursuation since politicians always pay a little closer attention when you talk about THEIR constituents. I can be e mailed at GOAREP@ juno.com as well. I would also like to see if you would possibly be interested in being a rep of sorts for your area on behalf of GOA. We are hoping to get as many people who would like to help as we can from different areas of the state. We have many bills that we would like to get behind but need people willing to write letters, testify in front of committee's etc, etc. I don;t know if you have seen the above but we were successful at making them stop taking fingerprints from gun owners which was a very sbstantial vicyory since we could not count on many of the so called pro 2A reps. A. G. Cox loved working with us and it is my belief he is a GOA member. Is that grassroots or what! I would like to talk more about Vermont and other issues but like I said the more members who can help in this task will help us get the desired results. Also, are there any gun clubs in your area? (Name, address, phone #) Nov. elections will be important to tell us where we stand and if we start TODAY I think Vermont style could possibly be achieved in 2 yrs. That's been the indication I've been getting from Lansing. Let me know what you think. Thanks, GOA rep. |
|
I just wanted to let you guy's know that I'm signing off. I made a mistake by posting a message to all the state boards. I am NEW TO THE COMPUTER AND THIS SITE. i DID NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT "SPAMMING" MEANT. I apologized several times but there are some real fools out on this site. I hate to say this but no wonder the anti-gunners make such a strong case. If this is how we treat the good intentioned people who are on our side we will never win any battle's for gun rights. If you care to follow, I posted on the Ca. page. Thanks for the good conversation of the pastand all of your good info . I'm signing off the site for good. |
Now I hate spam as much as anybody but if this couldn't have been handled in a manner that did not run this guy off the site, we have a serious problem. This guy appeared to be one of the guys in the trenches fighting for our rights and somehow he got run off? WTF? It's a wonder we have any Goddamn rights left at all the way we seem to constantly shoot ourselves in the foot. Color me disgusted. |
No kidding, I think that we should be able to cut some people some slack if they honestly make a mistake. |
|
To make a long story short I posted on every state site and did not know I cound not do that, I was very sorry but I am new to the computer and the site. Of course a couple people wanted to be hard AND asses ask for my CREDENTIALS ETC. insult me and then MAKE UP SOME B.S. SAYING I WAS ASKING FOR SPECIAL TREATMENT. (SEE WA. POST)WHEN I CONFRONTED THE GUY FOR BEING A LIAR SOME OTHER A.H. (SGTAR15)JUMPS TO HIS DEFENSE AND TELLS ME WHAT A DISTINGUISHED MEMBER HE (some JAFO) IS. WHAT HE DISTINGUISHED WAS HE WAS A LIAR ABOUT WHAT HE SAID ABOUT ME. IT'S ALL ON THE GENERAL DISCUSSION PAGE. THE GUY DIDN'T EVEN HAVE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS TO ADMIT THAT HE WAS WRONG BY SAYING WHAT HE DID etc. I will have no part of it. STRYFE: i DON'T TAKE SOMEONE LYING ABOUT ME TO PERSUADE OTHERS LIGHTLY, MAYBE YOU DO BUT TO ME , THAT IS A SERIOUS CHARACTER FLAW AND THAT PERSONS(THE LIAR) CHARACTER SHOULD BE SERIOUSLY SCRUTENIZED! |