Posted: 3/11/2010 5:29:55 PM EDT
| How long has Indiana had a handgun carry permit. I know most states have went this way the last 10-15 years. I have had mine around 25 or so. |
| Always kind of irked me that various sources (NRA, the press, etc.) would say that FL had the "1st of its kind" permit system, since IN's predates FL by over 50 years! I also remember when only IN & MI would honor out of state permits. Startin' to feel a little old ............ |
|
Quoted:
Damn I knew, or thought we were the first. I had heard 1943. Thanks for the info. I'm not sure, or can't remember off hand, which state was actually the first to pass such a law. How the question is phrased and the context in which it is asked may yield different answers. Rhetorical examples: Which state was the first to codify a licensing and registration scheme for the bearing of handguns, open or concealed, "in public" (off ones property)? Which state was the first to establish a permit system "allowing" the citizens of that state to carry their handguns concealed on or about their person? Which state was the first to codify the regulation [20th century definition] of handguns in any manner? I too was slightly irked by what minuteman32 mentioned, yet when viewed in the context of fundamental, inalienable, constitutional rights, the gun control laws (LTCH, CCW, CPL, CCDW, etc.) are nothing to be proud of. |
|
Quoted: True, but when viewed in the context that some of these pieces of legislation are a movement towards restoration of rights...Quoted: Damn I knew, or thought we were the first. I had heard 1943. Thanks for the info. I'm not sure, or can't remember off hand, which state was actually the first to pass such a law. How the question is phrased and the context in which it is asked may yield different answers. Rhetorical examples: Which state was the first to codify a licensing and registration scheme for the bearing of handguns, open or concealed, "in public" (off ones property)? Which state was the first to establish a permit system "allowing" the citizens of that state to carry their handguns concealed on or about their person? Which state was the first to codify the regulation [20th century definition] of handguns in any manner? I too was slightly irked by what minuteman32 mentioned, yet when viewed in the context of fundamental, inalienable, constitutional rights, the gun control laws (LTCH, CCW, CPL, CCDW, etc.) are nothing to be proud of. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
True, but when viewed in the context that some of these pieces of legislation are a movement towards restoration of rights...Quoted:
Damn I knew, or thought we were the first. I had heard 1943. Thanks for the info. I'm not sure, or can't remember off hand, which state was actually the first to pass such a law. How the question is phrased and the context in which it is asked may yield different answers. Rhetorical examples: Which state was the first to codify a licensing and registration scheme for the bearing of handguns, open or concealed, "in public" (off ones property)? Which state was the first to establish a permit system "allowing" the citizens of that state to carry their handguns concealed on or about their person? Which state was the first to codify the regulation [20th century definition] of handguns in any manner? I too was slightly irked by what minuteman32 mentioned, yet when viewed in the context of fundamental, inalienable, constitutional rights, the gun control laws (LTCH, CCW, CPL, CCDW, etc.) are nothing to be proud of. It is OK to finish the sentence. The subject, though, was the handgun permit law itself, not other pieces of legislation. |
THIS is weird.. Does anyone else get a pop-up with a list of counties where LTCH's are not issued right now?  re: http://aries.in.gov/Firearms/Permit.aspx
|
|
From this article:
http://www.examiner.com/x-2581-St-Louis-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m1d13-Licensed-defensive-handgun-carry-Are-we-doing-it-wrong Another reason I rarely approach gun rights advocacy from this angle is that I don't believe in licensing the carrying of a firearm. In submitting to a licensing requirement to carry a firearm, we undermine our own case––that the keeping and bearing of arms is a Constitutionally guaranteed, fundamental human right
Discussing this topic in a thread on another site, I posted this: Re: "Licensed Carry" The one thing the Brady/VPC crowd wants, and their default position if they can't get anything else toward their ultimate goal of the complete prohibition of civilian ownership of firearms, is the imposition of some type of licensing and registration scheme. One peculiar pathology I noticed over the years when talking to many gun owners in Indiana is the constant equation of "shall issue" with a right, and the lengths they will go to silence discussion of this topic. Many seem to think that state-issued permission slip gives them something called "freedom", as they sometimes smugly and arrogantly rub it in the faces of those who live in more restricted states. The NRA, for their part, has not helped matters in this regard by constantly putting out lists of "right to carry" states. This further contributes to the orwellian redefinition of Rights, since one cannot honestly be said to have a Right if one had to ask or apply for permission in the first place. It has become rationalized and - more ominously for future generations - legitimized in the minds of many people, that you must have permission from the State in order to keep and/or bear arms. The imposition of a licensing and registration scheme, whether of the gun itself or the owner, is the precise point where a right is rendered into a privilege. No matter how cheap and easy to get, no matter how streamlined the process, no matter how professional and efficient the agency or bureau charged with its administration, it still amounts to: "Your papers, please" - and don't leave home, or get caught, without 'em. Whenever I have pointed this out to people, even supposedly ardent gun rights supporters, I've been met with insults, snide remarks, rationalizations, and a hundred variations of the armed felon/officer safety/public safety argument. Especially with regard to the carrying of one's own personal sidearm in Indiana, many seem to have gone from Patrick Henry's "suspect anyone who approaches that jewel" to suspect anyone who approaches the sacred cow enshrined in IC 35-47-2-1. Through conversations with friends, acquaintances and coworkers I've seen all too much evidence that the non-stop battering of media propaganda has taken its toll. In spite of, or maybe because of, a few smaller victories here and there, some have said, "We'll get it back one day. One step at a time." No, you won't. Once you allow the establishment of a licensing/registration system, you lose. Rights, that is. You are condemned to fight a never-ending battle of attrition - legislative, judicial, social, cultural, and political - to retain or keep from losing further the privileges you are from that point on "allowed" to have. And that is permanent. The longer it's allowed to stand, like concrete setting up, the more permanent it becomes. It becomes the norm, accepted - if not always liked - and ingrained in the culture. Given the current political and demographic trends, even if we are successful at getting so-called "nationwide reciprocity", the best we can hope for is some sort of benignly issued form of a driver's license. So no, you don't get that Right back. Unless... Unless the gun owner licensing/registration laws, and the invasions of your privacy that they entail [such as submission of fingerprints, photographs, social security numbers, all manner of personal information in what amounts to being booked like a common criminal] are correctly seen as the gross violations of Rights that they really are, by enough of the population to get them repealed. __________________ |
|
Quoted: From this article: http://www.examiner.com/x-2581-St-Louis-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m1d13-Licensed-defensive-handgun-carry-Are-we-doing-it-wrong Another reason I rarely approach gun rights advocacy from this angle is that I don't believe in licensing the carrying of a firearm. In submitting to a licensing requirement to carry a firearm, we undermine our own case––that the keeping and bearing of arms is a Constitutionally guaranteed, fundamental human right Discussing this topic in a thread on another site, I posted this: Re: "Licensed Carry" The one thing the Brady/VPC crowd wants, and their default position if they can't get anything else toward their ultimate goal of the complete prohibition of civilian ownership of firearms, is the imposition of some type of licensing and registration scheme.Snip !...Unless... Unless the gun owner licensing/registration laws, and the invasions of your privacy that they entail [such as submission of fingerprints, photographs, social security numbers, all manner of personal information in what amounts to being booked like a common criminal] are correctly seen as the gross violations of Rights that they really are, by enough of the population to get them repealed. __________________ I believe that the adult citizen's right to carry should not be restricted in any way except VERY narrowly in regards to felons and those to have been legally found insane.  |
|
Quoted:
I believe that the adult citizen's right to carry should not be restricted in any way except VERY narrowly in regards to felons and those to have been legally found insane. The previous observations and rationalizations are confirmed once more. We'll see how it goes. |
|
Unless the gun owner licensing/registration laws, and the invasions of your privacy that they entail [such as submission of fingerprints, photographs, social security numbers, all manner of personal information in what amounts to being booked like a common criminal] are correctly seen as the gross violations of Rights that they really are, by enough of the population to get them repealed.
Agreed. Whenever I have pointed this out to people, even supposedly ardent gun rights supporters, I've been met with insults, snide remarks, rationalizations, and a hundred variations of the armed felon/officer safety/public safety argument. Especially with regard to the carrying of one's own personal sidearm in Indiana, many seem to have gone from Patrick Henry's "suspect anyone who approaches that jewel" to suspect anyone who approaches the sacred cow enshrined in IC 35-47-2-1. Through conversations with friends, acquaintances and coworkers I've seen all too much evidence that the non-stop battering of media propaganda has taken its toll.
I've caught it too from people who are pro firearms when voicing similar opinions - too many our side really need a shift in attitude when it comes to this issue. Good post. |