Posted: 9/6/2014 3:44:43 PM EDT
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I cant believe I hadnt thought of asking here before....
Any of you guys have any experience replacing Lally Columns? I have 4 in my basement that are rotting away....I was planning to do the replacements myself, but Im starting to question that idea. I just dont want anything to sag while doing it and having cracks go through a wall upstairs or something 
Anyone know who would do this kind of work? Carpenter, Etc.? |
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Jack posts/Lally Columns hold up your house by transferring the load from the floor rafters above to the earth below. At the bottom of each of your (assumed wood) posts should be thick concrete or a pad. Typically a concrete floor isn't strong enough to handle the load so a pad is poured thick enough to distribute the load to the earth without cracking or sinking. If the wood ones are sinking or rotting, look at this link:
http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/material-handling/dock-truck/trailer-stabilizing-jacks/basement-floor-jack-54-to-150-5175-lb-extended-cap-987708?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CKfD27y2zcACFZSIfgodThYAPA&gclsrc=aw.ds Not recommending that brand but that type of replacement post initially. You screw it up along side of your wood posts, relieve the weight of the house on the wood, then install another of the adjustable ones in place of the wood. Remember, you can't rely on the floor alone. The post has to be placed where the original is placed. It's critical to the health of your home's structure that your columns are in good shape. These are only temporary, however. Ultimately what you should do is have a contractor install a permanent column which will be thick steel filled with concrete. He'll cut one to fit and put it in place removing the adjustable columns. Hope that helps. Rome |
I was going to suggest the adjustable columns to support the beam while you replace the Lally, but Cabinetman beat me to it! I have also used the floor jack method to replace supporting walls.
You did not say what kind of columns you had, wood or steel filled with concrete. If they are the steel ones, here is a video on how to cut them to the right length: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztCNYULwUP8 |
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Take the bottle jack from your shop press and use it to ever so slightly take the pressure of the column you want to replace. This is pretty much the right answer, we use a 20 ton bottle jack and a screw jack column to just relieve the pressure on the column you want to replace and switch them out. ( can use 2-2x4 nailed in a T if you don't have a steel screw jack column ) If you don't have a column cutter you can use a sawzall or angle grinder to just cut though the steel jacket all the way around and then snap it off with a couple hammer blows. And I am a contractor / carpenter |
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Thanks for the info guys.
My columns are steel filled with concrete. By "rotting" I meant they are "weeping" rust out of them. They are sort of bubbling out rust water, almost all over the surface. The other question I couldn't figure out the answer to is.....when I cut the old columns flush with the floor, how do I install the new ones? I obviously wouldn't be able to sink new columns into the same spot and pour concrete there. So would I have to use the columns made by Dean, which would sit on the floor where the old poles were? |
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Those adjustable columns are NICE to use. Makes life infinitely easier. You'd have to rent or borrow one and do each column one at a time.
What I've done in the past, is I've gotten prefilled columns and borrowed a friends stone saw to cut each of them to length. And I use a stone chisel to shape out a circular "divot", right where the old column was, once you remove it. Once the new column is put into place and the weight put back down on it, it goes no where. You can also weld a square plate to the top and bottom of the column (with a hole at each corner that protrudes around the round column) for a lag bolt or concrete screw, to attach the tops and bottom with a fastener. One way to get around trying to find an adjustable jack/column thing,, for a temporary support, I've used three 2x6's nailed to one another, all cut 1/4" longer than the space between the concrete slab and bottom of the girder, but SUBTRACTING an inch and a half for a length of 2x6 (maybe four feet long) that sits between the floor and the 3x temporary column. The extra inch and a half is of course the thickness of the length of 2x6. You attach the 3x temporary column to the 4 foot long 2x6 bottom plate and maneuver the whole "T shaped" thing into position, but you toe-nail the top of the 3x temporary column into the underside of the girder, so that it doesn't move. The top of the temporary column should be as close to the rotting column as you can get it. Since this whole T-shaped thing is 1/4" longer than it should be, the bottom will be a few inches away from plumb. You then strike the 4 foot long bottom plate with a sledge hammer, until it's nice and tight and relatively plumb. The distance between the slab and girder has now been jacked up a little bit, giving you the ability to get the old column out, and the new one in. You can attach the new column by either notching out the floor with a cold chisel and then the same into the girder above (assuming it's a wooden girder), or if you get a column with plates and the holes, you can fasten them that way. Once the weight's back on the column, it's not going anywhere. Once you get the new column into position, then smack the bottom plate back out and reuse it for the next one. And so on. |
| I agree with everything Johnny said. And no they are not typically through the floor, but they could be. If they are just cut them and grind them smooth. The new columns will need plates that lock in the column from getting knocked over. That plate can go on top of the old piece in the floor if it's solid, even if that steel caseing riots the concrete in the slab will hold up. |
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Thanks again for all the info guys. And Johnny......that sounds like the best way to handle the situation. Tomorrow Ill take some pictures, and post em up and see what you guys think. If it looks like surface rust then Ill just sand em down and paint em and then forget about em. I hope thats all it is, but I'm not 100% confident in that......so we'll see.
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Bending,
I have 3 columns in my basement. One is rusting from the inside out. Looks like chicken pox. I wire brushed it and painted it a few years ago. It is back rusted again. My house has a dry basement, stone foundation that is mortared and a poured floor. I am pretty sure my column is wicking water out of the ground and up into the column. My house is 100 years old but the columns and floor were done in the late 60s or early 70s according to my neighbor. My plan is to use the temporary screw posts to handle the load. Then I will saw cut the floor 24"x24". I will remove the old column. If I find no footing I will dig one and pour a footing the top of which will be 4-6" below the top of the floor. I might use a precast footing. Then I will fit a new column tapcom the lower plate in place and pour to match the floor. The screw type jacks say they meet code but better check with your building inspector as many towns do not allow them. If you try and use a bottom plate right on the floor you need to make sure it is ok with your town's building inspector. If you ever go to sell your house the home inspector may pick up on it. Then you have to do it again or pay someone. |
| You can rent temp screw jacks from a place like Superior Rental, cut out and remove the old columns and install new ones that likely have steel plates welded top and bottom for anchoring to the concrete on the floor and wood above. The columns can be custom made, or brackets installed and the tubes cut to fit when you install it. |
| Use a screw type building jack next to the column you are going to replace available at HD for about 40 bucks. You will need a Springfield Plate for the bottom of the new column attach it to the floor with Tap-cons.You will be alright do one at a time.Im a building contractor. |
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So Im getting ready to tackle this job in the next week or so. Im planning to either use a screw type building jack or if possible a standard car floor jack with a 4x4 cut to length to put under the beam and press up. Im just wondering if a car floor jack is enough to press up the beam enough? I figure I need to press it up a 1/4" or so.....so Im hoping a floor jack and a 4x4 can handle that especially for the extended time itll take to cut the column out and chizel away the floor so its flush.
My columns are embedded in the footings below the floor, and then the floor was poured around them. So I guess mine are the tougher poles to replace  SO Im planning to cut around the diameter of the poles(steel) in the middle and at the bottom (flush). Then bang them out with a sledgehammer. Then just chizel and cut the floor flush where they were and place the new one directly on the floor. Screw them down into the cement and up into the beam, and be done.
Heres a pic of what one of them looks like though. The rest are no better. As you guys see, sanding and painting wont cut it with these columns 
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I would also put some 6mil plastic between the cement floor and the 4x4 as a moisture barrier Whoops, no the 4x4 and floor jack is one of the 2 ways I'm considering taking the load off while replacing each column. The permanent lally columns will be 4"steel with concrete inside them. I'm planning to finish the basement in the spring/summer next year so the columns will be boxed in. I need them to be in good condition before doing that 
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Whoops, no the 4x4 and floor jack is one of the 2 ways I'm considering taking the load off while replacing each column. The permanent lally columns will be 4"steel with concrete inside them. I'm planning to finish the basement in the spring/summer next year so the columns will be boxed in. I need them to be in good condition before doing that Quoted:
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I would also put some 6mil plastic between the cement floor and the 4x4 as a moisture barrier Whoops, no the 4x4 and floor jack is one of the 2 ways I'm considering taking the load off while replacing each column. The permanent lally columns will be 4"steel with concrete inside them. I'm planning to finish the basement in the spring/summer next year so the columns will be boxed in. I need them to be in good condition before doing that Haha ok, I'm also looking at refinishing my basement in the spring. My fiance wants me to do the half bath first though 
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| Take a Sawsall with a metal blade and run it all the way around the column even with the floor your going to waste a blade on every column when you hit cement.Once your down to cement all around break off with a sledge hammer than clean up whats left with a cold chisel.Next get Springfield plates for the floor and mount over cut off column. That's how its done. |
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Edge -exactly what I was nervous about...PM sent.
Tbr- yep I know what you mean, I think I have to do my main bathroom this winter . After the kitchen, it should be a breeze though haha.
Rem- that's exactly what I've read on how to do it. Luckily I can snag some bi metal blades from work. We actually even have cement sawzall blades too. I'll probably just whack them with the sledgehammer though. My biggest concern was the support, but it looks like I'll just use a screw jack. |
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Edge -exactly what I was nervous about...PM sent. Tbr- yep I know what you mean, I think I have to do my main bathroom this winter . After the kitchen, it should be a breeze though haha.
Rem- that's exactly what I've read on how to do it. Luckily I can snag some bi metal blades from work. We actually even have cement sawzall blades too. I'll probably just whack them with the sledgehammer though. My biggest concern was the support, but it looks like I'll just use a screw jack. PM returned. I helped a buddy replace some rotted sills. We used a jack to take the weight off and make it easier to turn the screw on the screw jack. Basically we did just like working on a car. Lift up with the jack but use screw jack to support the weight. I have one in my basement to do too. Looks like yours except my wife has painted it a few times. |
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So Ive got another quick question.
Does the column just press against the top and bottom plates? Is it the pressure that holds them together? So do you just install the upper plate into the beam and lower plate into the cement floor, then bang the column into place? Or am I missing something here?
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Pressure holds the columns in place there is little dimples around plates that come with columns to hold column in.As stated before I would use Springfield plates.
http://www.kellyfradet.com/home-exterior/MASONRY/lally-columns/springfield-cap-or-base-for-lally-column |
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Pressure holds the columns in place there is little dimples around plates that come with columns to hold column in.As stated before I would use Springfield plates. http://www.kellyfradet.com/home-exterior/MASONRY/lally-columns/springfield-cap-or-base-for-lally-column Thanks again! So a springfield plate on the bottom of the column, and the standard plate screwed into the beam on top? Then just bang the column into place? |
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Thanks again! So a springfield plate on the bottom of the column, and the standard plate screwed into the beam on top? Then just bang the column into place? Quoted:
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Pressure holds the columns in place there is little dimples around plates that come with columns to hold column in.As stated before I would use Springfield plates. http://www.kellyfradet.com/home-exterior/MASONRY/lally-columns/springfield-cap-or-base-for-lally-column Thanks again! So a springfield plate on the bottom of the column, and the standard plate screwed into the beam on top? Then just bang the column into place? You got it. |
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You got it. Quoted:
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Pressure holds the columns in place there is little dimples around plates that come with columns to hold column in.As stated before I would use Springfield plates. http://www.kellyfradet.com/home-exterior/MASONRY/lally-columns/springfield-cap-or-base-for-lally-column Thanks again! So a springfield plate on the bottom of the column, and the standard plate screwed into the beam on top? Then just bang the column into place? You got it. Alrighty, oh and with the screw jack, am I trying to raise the beam off of the existing column? Or am I just matching the height with the jack? I have access to a screw jack, but if a bottle jack would make it easier I would just grab one of them.... Whats your opinion, and if the screw jack is the better option, which way is it supposed to be used, lifting? or filling the gap between the floor and beam? |
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To make sure you have enough room to fit in the new colum you need to raise the screw jack until you crack the tape joints in the drywall above the lally column, then back off a full turn.
FYI, if you cut the column to the exact installed height as the one you are removing, you won't be able to angle it in unless the jack actually lifts the beam up a little bit. (or liberally use a sledgehammer) |
| I always use a screw jack.Just screw it as tight as you can your not going to lift the house up with it.You just need to take some weight off the old column than cut your new column tight and sledge it in.If its too tight you can take some wood off your carrying beam with a sharp chisel. |
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I was watching "This Old House" on PBS last Thursday and they replaced one just like you described. They swapped out and old adjustable column for a concrete filled one. It looked pretty straight forward.
Here's the episode: http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tv/ask-toh/video/0,,,00.html |
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Hey guys, just replaced all four columns today. Thanks a lot for that link slimbone, it actually helped a lot! And the rest of you guys for all of your input, I wouldn't have been able to do this without it,
Took 6 hours with a few breaks. Had to cut all of the new poles twice. Didn't take into account the height of the floor where the columns were...so that sucked. I will say this....I used both a screw jack and a 20 ton bottle jack, and in my opinion it would have been TOUGH with just the screw jack. Either way they're done, and I save a little over a grand(literally) by doing them myself. Oh and my wife was my helper haha. I am freaking beat otherwise I'd throw up a pic, maybe tomorrow though. |
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Hey guys, just replaced all four columns today. Thanks a lot for that link slimbone, it actually helped a lot! And the rest of you guys for all of your input, I wouldn't have been able to do this without it, Took 6 hours with a few breaks. Had to cut all of the new poles twice. Didn't take into account the height of the floor where the columns were...so that sucked. I will say this....I used both a screw jack and a 20 ton bottle jack, and in my opinion it would have been TOUGH with just the screw jack. Either way they're done, and I save a little over a grand(literally) by doing them myself. Oh and my wife was my helper haha. I am freaking beat otherwise I'd throw up a pic, maybe tomorrow though. Pat yourself on the back, grab a beer and sit on the couch! 
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